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Institutional Equivalent Education?

  • #121
  • Jan 26, 2016 7:53am Jan 26, 2016 7:53am
Ray's class tonight is open to all his students past and present. He will be covering Price Action.
He has designated next month as 'Fundamental February'. He certainly put the 'fun' in fundamentals for me.

Here are the details from the email about tonight's class:

"TODAY: Tuesday Predatory Prop Class January 26th at 3:00 PM EASTERN (Price Action)
http://compassfx.omnovia.com/proptraderoom
Password: action
The Trade Room will be open for you for the Tuesday Price Action Class with Ray!! "
  • #122
  • Jan 26, 2016 12:21pm Jan 26, 2016 12:21pm
Is this webinar only open to actual students? Not potential ones?
  • #123
  • Jan 28, 2016 6:18am Jan 28, 2016 6:18am
@Betchad, It was meant to be only ex-students and current student, but I heard that some prospective students attended. Ihope that all who attended got something out of it - I certainly did.
  • #124
  • Jan 28, 2016 6:24am Jan 28, 2016 6:24am
For Crude Oil traders:
There is a free webinar today at 13:00 Eastern Time featuring Mete Topcuoglu that is open to everybody.
Mete is one of Ray's long term students and has worked hard to overcome his trading psych problems.

Infinity Futures upcoming webinar - Professional Crude Oil Speculation Insights
With Mete Topcuoglu Thursday January 28th, 12:00 pm CT.
http://www.infinityfutures.com/webin...0c6d1c40277c71
  • #125
  • Jan 31, 2016 11:07am Jan 31, 2016 11:07am
Well, it seems that Mete and his partner had not even mentioned their webinar and what they were going to cover to Compass and Ray before they held it.

Just before the Webinar, Kim was informed by somebody on the Infinity Futures email list that they were going to give away all Ray's IP and steal her customers for their trading room! Cue fireworks from Kim and headaches and ear-bashing for me!

Of course, they didn't reveal any (in my opinion) any of Ray's teachings, nor did they market their 'Oil Trading Room' to PropTime students (in fact several members of the Self Help Group were quite annoyed that Mete had not told them about the webinar).

But once Kim is angry her wrath knows no bounds until everything is laid waste.

Things are still not back to normal in the Self Help Group and it looks like the earliest return to normal may be late on Monday.
  • #126
  • Jan 31, 2016 11:14am Jan 31, 2016 11:14am
Boris Schlossberg is also back to his usual misunderstanding/misinformation self again.
This week he is showing that he doesn't understand what Leverage actually is, and he is saying Traders should use no leverage.

Taken at face value, this means that in order to trade 1 lot or 1 contract the trader should have an account size at least equal to the price of the lot or contract (i.e the maximum downside risk on a Long adn ignoring any Stop Loss). Thus for E/U this would be $100,000 or for the 6E contract $125,000.

I am sure that he can't really mean that, he just doesn't understand what he is actually saying, unless he is much more stupid than I thought - LOL !
  • #127
  • Jan 31, 2016 5:56pm Jan 31, 2016 5:56pm
Quoting ianf0ster
Well, it seems that Mete and his partner had not even mentioned their webinar and what they were going to cover to Compass and Ray before they held it. Just before the Webinar, Kim was informed by somebody on the Infinity Futures email list that they were going to give away all Ray's IP and steal her customers for their trading room! Cue fireworks from Kim and headaches and ear-bashing for me! Of course, they didn't reveal any (in my opinion) any of Ray's teachings, nor did they market their 'Oil Trading Room' to PropTime students (in fact several...
In other words we should all sign up on Meat Top's website and get Ray-boy's secret sauce info for free, right? Gotcha! Thanks for the heads up. I'll inform the Kimmy wifey how helpful you've been.
  • #128
  • Feb 1, 2016 3:17am Feb 1, 2016 3:17am
Ian

All these months in the prop room how are you getting on towards your goal of becoming an independent trader?

If (heaven forbid) something happened to Ray tomorrow, could you continue?

That is the acid test of a course really. You attend, learn stuff and then go off and do.

Sooner or later Ray's "IP" will be leaked, its only a matter of time. Not entirely sure what that IP is though, as from the free webinar's I've attended its largely volume and market profile
  • #129
  • Feb 1, 2016 4:21am Feb 1, 2016 4:21am
Quoting Betchad
{quote} In other words we should all sign up on Meat Top's website and get Ray-boy's secret sauce info for free, right? Gotcha! Thanks for the heads up. I'll inform the Kimmy wifey how helpful you've been.
I did not say that, I did not mean to imply that at all. Because you won't get Ray's IP for free even if you did. I thought that I made that clear.

I am not promoting anything in this thread (despite FF putting me in the commercial section). It is just meant to inform and to allow potential traders to make a decision based upon facts rather than Hype.
I get no financial benefit from any site or service that I mention and although I suppose I should expect cynical responses like yours, I still find it insulting.
  • #130
  • Feb 1, 2016 4:35am Feb 1, 2016 4:35am
Quoting hostwey
Ian All these months in the prop room how are you getting on towards your goal of becoming an independent trader? If (heaven forbid) something happened to Ray tomorrow, could you continue? That is the acid test of a course really. You attend, learn stuff and then go off and do. Sooner or later Ray's "IP" will be leaked, its only a matter of time. Not entirely sure what that IP is though, as from the free webinar's I've attended its largely volume and market profile

At the risk of being insulted by some idiot again I will answer you with the truth as I always do:
1). I understand Ray's teachings as well as any of his students, even the most successful ones.
2. I have been asked to help write documentation (yet again)
3. I will never be successful until I fix or adjust to my trading psychology problems. This is despite being able to make money week after week if I only stick to certain types of trades.
4. I am in contact with Dr Jason Williams , the psychologist son of Larry Williams. I have read his book 'The Mental Edge in Trading' and am about to take the actual Revised NEO Personality Inventory test - commonly known as NEO-AC. Depending upon the results of that, I may then:
A). Start work on adapting my trading and introduce coping mechanism for my problem areas.
B). Have a consultation with Dr Jason Williams
C). Finally give up on trading because with my personality success is beyond reach.
  • #131
  • Feb 1, 2016 4:52am Feb 1, 2016 4:52am
Ray's 'secret sauce' is not the indicators or resources he uses.

It is partly the way he uses them, but only partly since most he uses in the conventional way

It is mainly the institutional concepts, they way he shows how they can be applied by a 'retail trader' and the way he uses data from the resources and combines them with the institutional concepts to form an 'edge value' at various price points. Enabling the trader to make a value based decision whether a trade meets their criteria (not his) or not.
  • #132
  • Feb 1, 2016 5:22am Feb 1, 2016 5:22am
Ian,

First of all, I was just being silly in my last post and expected you to treat my comments with the contempt they deserved. I'm sorry you took me seriously and won't mess you about like that again.

You've clearly been one of the longest serving students and must have spent a fortune on the monthly subscription fees. Your enthusiasm for Ray's tuition is obvious and I doubt you'd have remained this long if you didn't think it was worth it, but at the same time you (admirably) admit to not being profitable. You attribute this to psychological problems, but my question to you is this:

If your hyperbole surrounding Ray's insight was actually true and what he had to impart gave you that much of an edge then HOW are you still affected by psychological issues?

Please don't take this as a mean spirited jibe because it's not. I too am not mentally cut out for trading and if I did what the majority of aspiring traders did then I would be dead in the water, but here's the important point: I've also found a niche edge over the market and due to this fact alone then I am able to pull the trigger. The moral of this story being: edge > psyche problems.

If the house you're in is on fire and you see an open door, you go towards it. There is no hesitation, no second guessing; you run out the door. In the same way, if your market insight was absolutely clear, then there would be no dithering or prevaricating.

So, with that in mind, I cannot help but wonder if what you've been taught really is that great. As noted by Hostwey above, all I've seen in the free webinars are some basic market profile, volume, deltas and a smattering of talk related to fundamentals. Clearly he's not going to reveal all he knows (if indeed he knows anything at all) within freely available webinars, but so far all I've seen are a mish mash of concepts being thrown at the attendees. I don't see any kind of structure or amazing insight at all and it makes me wonder if you and the rest aren't being taken in by yet another magnetic guru figure? He's certainly got the Glaswegian gift of the gab, but your lack of success combined with Gobigfx's damning statements make me very sceptical indeed about the, ahem, 'intrinsic value' of this course.

I look forward to your response.
  • #133
  • Edited 10:09am Feb 2, 2016 4:13am | Edited 10:09am
Quoting Betchad
Ian, First of all, I was just being silly in my last post and expected you to treat my comments with the contempt they deserved. I'm sorry you took me seriously and won't mess you about like that again. You've clearly been one of the longest serving students and must have spent a fortune on the monthly subscription fees. Your enthusiasm for Ray's tuition is obvious and I doubt you'd have remained this long if you didn't think it was worth it, but at the same time you (admirably) admit to not being profitable. You attribute this to psychological...

Points well said Betchad and I am sure Ian will give you a very comprehensive reply. I suspect what he might say is that unless you have been learning this craft for a decade plus, then you will not understand that when learning anything new, getting rid of bad habits from previous education is very difficult regardless of the edge you have at your disposal. Ray teaches many edges and it is up to the student to understand how to use them and when it is appropriate to do so. That is the skill that takes time to master. That depth of skill and information goes far deeper than the delta, volume and price action -these bits are just the cherry on the cake, they cannot be used alone.

If you have some psychological baggage from past education, then go on to learn how the markets actually function and learn many edges - then it is like going from trying to fly by learning how to ride a bicycle (previous education), to learning how to fly by learning how to operate a jumbo jet. The skills and knowledge gap is vast which will take time and experience to absorb, to correct the bad habits of the past. Your analogy of the burning building is just too simple.
  • #134
  • Feb 2, 2016 4:27am Feb 2, 2016 4:27am
Quoting StevePat
So I was told by my friend Thomas my name was being thrown around FF and I resisted the urge to get involved in this thread but since the internet is such a small place I felt I should defend some of these accusations, so I joined FF today. 1. I have never once said anything slanderous about Ray and his education. As a matter of fact I endorsed the hell out of it and promoted it for over a year while I worked with Compassfx (to all my students as well as several sales webinars). 2. I believe Ray is one of the best traders in the world hands down...
I don't think its a secret that prop firms and institutions that spend millions on algo's and information will have the upper edge. No one is disputing that. Retail traders have many aspects of day trading going against them in comparison: the speed of information, the speed of trade entry and exit, costs, account size and psychology. You are right day trading is a very tough business for the average retail trader. But big money cannot hide and that is why Ray's course is just as focused on the broader picture as he is on day trading.
  • #135
  • Feb 2, 2016 3:09pm Feb 2, 2016 3:09pm
Quoting Porkpie
{quote} Points well said Betchad and I am sure Ian will give you a very comprehensive reply. I suspect what he might say is that unless you have been learning this craft for a decade plus, then you will not understand that when learning anything new, getting rid of bad habits from previous education is very difficult regardless of the edge you have at your disposal. Ray teaches many edges and it is up to the student to understand how to use them and when it is appropriate to do so. That is the skill that takes time to master. That depth of skill...
It's so funny (almost surreal) to see this conversation because I was so criticized and chastised for spending so much time on psychology and psyco babble in the Compass room but yet again I was correct. or was I ?

Wasn't Ray the guy that spent 1 min on psychology.?

Wasn't Rays answer to psychology " simply leave your problems at the door".?

I use to think that when I started to trade Forex (after 25 years in stocks) that it would be a simple transition. It took me at least 1 year and then another 6 months with Ray to realize that the Forex markets where completely different then futures and stocks. I realized it in 1 single thing Ray said and from that day I never lost again in Forex because I understood that the Forex market behaved differently from all other markets because the players in it where different and their objectives and decision processes where different as where their account sizes.

Ray was right after all their are no psychological issues when your a Forex Trader.

The only issue that cause people to lose money are:

1. misunderstanding the market and the drivers
2. not knowing who the players are and not knowing how they make decisions.
3. not understanding the roll of their personal retail bank roll management, position sizing and stop placement in light of understanding 1. and 2.
4. not utilizing or not having access to technology or information
and finally
5. unrealistic expectations due to sales companies and brokers telling you Forex is easy and just like a regular paycheck job.

Ian continues to look in the wrong place for the answers to his problems as so many other Forex traders do . I still think you can make money in Forex if you so desire but its not by sitting their 6 hours a day watching the Forex market. It's simply not a retail day trading market because as Ray pointed out to me The moves are much larger and the wallets of the players are much deeper.

Simply adjust to this fact and you should do ok with Forex.
  • #136
  • Edited 2:47am Feb 3, 2016 2:19am | Edited 2:47am
Quoting StevePat
{quote} I still think you can make money in Forex if you so desire but its not by sitting their 6 hours a day watching the Forex market. It's simply not a retail day trading market because as Ray pointed out to me The moves are much larger and the wallets of the players are much deeper. Simply adjust to this fact and you should do ok with Forex.
  • #137
  • Feb 6, 2016 9:50am Feb 6, 2016 9:50am
I came across this Youtube video of Daniel Kahneman and Nasim Taleb.
I know that quite a few don't like Taleb - he is my favourite author on the markets and Fooled by Randomness is my favourite book.

Even if you don't like Taleb, this is worth watching because it talks about the ways human beings behave which is not logical or rational at all.

Inserted Video
  • #138
  • Edited 10:48am Feb 6, 2016 10:35am | Edited 10:48am
StevePat : 'It's so funny (almost surreal) to see this conversation because I was so criticized and chastised for spending so much time on psychology and psyco babble in the Compass room but yet again I was correct. or was I ?

Wasn't Ray the guy that spent 1 min on psychology.?

Wasn't Rays answer to psychology " simply leave your problems at the door".?'

Then StevePat on me blaming my psych problems for my lack of consistency: 'Ian continues to look in the wrong place for the answers to his problems as so many other Forex traders do .'

My Reply: It is very true that Ray has no time for teaching traders how to overcome psychological problems. He is basically saying 'If you have psychological problems - don't trade' This is of course coming from an institutional background - why would an institution hire somebody with known psych problems?
It is also true as Porkpie says that retail traders generally all have habitual and psychological baggage from past courses and past trading. Ray has no experience of this. His only trading has been in the Institutional space, he has never taken courses in which the educator was deliberately lying to you because he could sell more courses that way!

I used to mock StevePat's 'Emotional Diary' approach to trader psychology - not because I didn't believe the importance of trader psychology, but because it was so simplistic and inadequate. Though I recognised that it did seem to help some people, but not me.

To now take the approach that all a trader needs is the right system or right methodology (as I used to believe to be the case for me), is just plain wrong!

Betchad asks about what I have gained from Ray's courses and the many hours I have spent in his trading/Education room?
Well the very first things are 1). I now understand the underlying business Models of all the major participants in the Markets.
2). I now have several situations in which I have an edge.
3). Because of that edge, I now know absolutely that my remaining trading problems are purely psychological. The problems that all retail traders have compared to the institutions ( higher costs per size of trade, worse technology, worse fills, lack of fast and appropriate news flow, lack on Analysts, Economists and Strategists to support the trader etc.) . - They are all very small, after Ray has shown all the useful free resources on the web, compared to the psychology problem.
  • #139
  • Feb 6, 2016 10:55am Feb 6, 2016 10:55am
For anybody who thinks trading is simple and easy, here is an audio file of a Ray rant - exhorting his students to knuckle down to work or get out of trading. Because trading can be quite simple, but it is always difficult - otherwise everybody would be able to do it.
Attached File(s)
File Type: zip Ray's Rant - Telling it how it is [edit].zip   5.2 MB | 562 downloads
  • #140
  • Feb 6, 2016 11:59am Feb 6, 2016 11:59am
It is no secret that Ray teaches Orderflow as part of his courses.
I can't show you how he uses it, but I can show other OrderFlow stuff that is in the public domain.
The link below is to a promotional and informative (though simplistic) video by NOFT which is software for Ninja Trader.
There are other alternatives including OFA (also for Ninja), or you can use Sierra Chart Package 5 which includes 3 OrderFlow 'indicators' not derived from price, which is a heck of a lot cheaper as well as being faster and more stable than Ninja.

If you have never seen an OrderFlow indicator, wach this video and see the big advantage that professionals and better informed Retail traders have over you.

http://safeclick.co/res/lp2/noft/ord...kyou/index.php
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