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  • #441
  • Jan 28, 2016 4:29am Jan 28, 2016 4:29am
Quoting Troonman
{quote} Cheers for the link Medici.... excellent read!
Glad you like it
  • #442
  • Jan 28, 2016 4:46am Jan 28, 2016 4:46am
Quoting Piquant
{quote} I would appreciate a screenshot. Went long on GJ. Still trying to master 1m chart. One thing to note I find it difficult to convince myself in a matter of 1m and hit the button. And while I'm thinking the price there it goes away from me. And I'm left with the dilemma of going in with a wider SL or just to wait (hope) for price to touch back down. When you're trading lower TFs like 5min and down you don't get to think but to act as quick as you can and just try to blend with the flow. The hardest part (dilemma) on one hand you think to yourself...
It will. Just identify the signal and go for it. If you're sitting there afraid that you're going to be wrong each time, you'll never put on a trade until you do out of frustration, and that will most likely be a loser. Learn to identify the opportunities, and have a strategy that gets you into the trade without thinking about whether it's going to be a winner or a loser, because you'll never know that anyway. It's not the next trade that is important, it's the next 20 trades. If you truly have an edge and you don't let your fears get in the way, you should be profitable in the long run provided your winning trades are bigger than your losing trades by a ratio of at least 2:1
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  • #443
  • Edited 5:23am Jan 28, 2016 4:53am | Edited 5:23am
Quoting Piquant
{quote} That's me ! Somedays (often after few consecutive wins) I'm convinced that I'm almost there. Days that I lose one trade after another be it from wrong entry, wrong analysis or simply me being impatient and getting out early I do feel that I'm hopeless and question myself if I'll ever get this. But it's good to know that I'm making a progress although it doesn't always add up to my account balance. That's the foundation of my hope, and what keeps me going. I wonder what everyone else has to say about this. What keeps you going ?
One of the most important elements to trading successfully is state of mind. I have struggled with this in recent years due to chronic illness and needless to say it has spilt over into my trading. Trading for me is now a therapy as I use it to control my mind state. The discipline required to trade is similar to the discipline needed to manage chronic pain and illness. When I finally bit the bullet and dived into the mind state research that I never seemed to need in previous years it immediately struck me how my most successful years in business and trading were driven by my mind state. To me there is no doubt that a positive mental attitude and all that implies is the single biggest determinant in a traders success. It is a broad subject. Napoleon hills seminal works in this area are a must read:
Success Through a Positive Mental Attitude
Think and Grow Rich
Within the broad Positive Mental Attitude that Hill espouses are a number of key principles for success. They include areas such as self-discipline, accurate thinking, the master mind (collective wisdom drawn from an enlightened group such as this is clearly one), initiative, enthusiasm, team work, learning from defeat, budgeting time and money, and above all a definiteness of purpose.

Self Discipline is so fundamental to trading if you have not already studied this area you should stop trading and read Mark Douglas' the Disciplined Trader (again available on web). A very interesting work on how to make incremental changes to your beliefs, habits, biases, fears and anything else that blocks you thinking clearly and analysing what is so patently obvious after the event that you just cannot believe you missed it. This morning was a great example for me. I was trading Dax and had some moderate successes but knew I was over trading and becoming 'trading fatigued' (something I am rather prone to. I blame the drugs but thats just an excuse). I stopped trading to avoid mistakes - only to miss the most obvious run had I still been focussed and had I not, through ill discipline, taken trades that were weak at best. As I look at my M15 chart there is a clear supply zone and a reversal at R1 that I suspect you wise chaps are still enjoying. I am out of puff for any more trading and must retire shortly.

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In regards to the discussion on how do you know when a trend becomes a ranging surely the point is you don't. The trader must weigh up the evidence and judge from that what the PROBABILITY of the price beginning to range is or continuing a trend. Having made that judgement call your entry criteria should be used that match the condition you believe exists. So long as this is a professionally developed plan, and you execute this with discipline you will, over time, prevail. The point is anything can and frequently does happen. Your plan must incorporate appropriate entry and exit criteria to manage the times that the probable price action does not materialise and you lose.
Katte, kabuto no o wo shime yo. Size doesn't matter, leverage is the killer
  • #444
  • Jan 28, 2016 5:09am Jan 28, 2016 5:09am
Quoting medici
{quote} Too deep for what? And I would disagree on your second statement: I've met many a candidate trader who were in it for the wrong reason - typically young people, daunted by the challenge of life ahead - and when they have failed it's usually blamed on the psychological challenges of trading, but the real reason was wrong motivation. Also, I've met people who succeeded for the wrong reasons. For example, somebody motivated by his dad's personal bankruptcy when he was a child - something that was very traumatic for the young lad....
But that's not exclusive to trading, that can happen with any profession or with a student going to university. That's what being young and finding your place in the world is all about - experimentation. There are those who want to become scientists or teachers, and there are those who want to go into financial services and speculation, but their motives are very unlikely to be the same. Traders want to make money, it is their goal, their sole purpose, not because they necessarily see the acquisition of wealth as their be-all-and-end-all in life, but because they see it as a conduit to the life they wish for themselves. Of course you can refer to individual examples where a certain individual may enter trading entirely for the wrong reason, but most don't, they enter it for the right reason, which is to make money as their primary goal.

Yes, purpose and meaning are definitely the most important ingredients to life, and I never said that these could be achieved any more or less in trading than in any other profession one chose to go into. What I did say was that the majority of those who do come into it do so for financial reasons, not to seek purpose and meaning in their lives, although these most certainly can be achieved as a result.
  • #445
  • Jan 28, 2016 5:09am Jan 28, 2016 5:09am
Just woke up and got settled into my daily routine. Amongst my first steps, I caught up with my goto thread.

Medici/Cat - great debate. You two are like squabbling brothers who will always mind each others back. Your posts reflect years of hardened experience of life.

May you live long and happy friends/brothers.

As for me I spent most of post 7pm yesterday getting out of US30 hole created a few days earliers. I managed it.

PS
I woke up at 6:30am and after checking the state of play I went back to sleep as last 72 hours of trading had not been kind to me.
None the wiser!
  • #446
  • Jan 28, 2016 5:13am Jan 28, 2016 5:13am
Quoting cat
{quote} Changing tack, this morning's Dax offered a wonderful opportunity for a long trade just after the London open on the 1m time frame, with the 200ema supporting on the 3m, 10m and 30m as well. Three give away long southerly candle stems gave loads of time to pick an entry, and an exit was offered on R1, which logically, once the price had got above today's central pivot, is the level traders would have been aiming for. I'll attach a chart shot if anyone would like to see it.
Interesting morning, with dead easy long to start with. A bit surprising that the trend failed so early. Then when the continuation failed from 9875, it was all down the hill from there.

My medium term trend now turning south. Took a final short from 9826, but out now. Next support around 9750, but I have a feeling things can go further south.
  • #447
  • Jan 28, 2016 5:17am Jan 28, 2016 5:17am
Quoting FxClown
Just woke up and got settled into my daily routine. Amongst my first steps, I caught up with my goto thread. Medici/Cat - great debate. You two are like squabbling brothers who will always mind each others back. Your posts reflect years of hardened experience of life. May you live long and happy friends/brothers. As for me I spent most of post 7pm yesterday getting out of US30 hole created a few days earliers. I managed it. PS I woke up at 6:30am and after checking the state of play I went back to sleep as last 72 hours of trading had...
Sometimes going back to sleep is the very best thing one can do!
  • #448
  • Edited Jan 29, 2016 1:08am Jan 28, 2016 5:20am | Edited Jan 29, 2016 1:08am
Quoting cat
{quote} But that's not exclusive to trading, that can happen with any profession or with a student going to university. That's what being young and finding your place in the world is all about - experimentation. There are those who want to become scientists or teachers, and there are those who want to go into financial services and speculation, but their motives are very unlikely to be the same. Traders want to make money, it is their goal, their sole purpose, not because they necessarily see the acquisition of wealth as their be-all-and-end-all...
I don't disagree with anything you're saying, except this first statement. It is my experience that trading attracts people on an escapist mission much more than other pursuits. That's why I thought the topic worth raising.
  • #449
  • Jan 28, 2016 5:30am Jan 28, 2016 5:30am
I thought this last entry might be worth an M1 chart. Note the long candle up to 9831, which stops action with an inside candle. Then break above, and swift break below.

A classic 2B with the trend, and a safe way to enter deeper pullbacks, where one easily might get chopped.
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  • #450
  • Jan 28, 2016 5:55am Jan 28, 2016 5:55am
Quoting medici
{quote} I don't disagree with anything you're saying, except this first statement. It is my experience that trading attracts people on a escapist mission much more than other pursuits. That's why I thought the topic worth raising.
Isn't that what we're all trying to do ultimately - escape? Nothing wrong with that. If the dream is there, the desire and the motivation, then that's all you need, whatever reason you go into trading for. For traders though, and I wrote a short piece about this above, the road can be particularly difficult because of the public perception of what a trader is or does.
  • #451
  • Jan 28, 2016 6:16am Jan 28, 2016 6:16am
Quoting cat
{quote} Isn't that what we're all trying to do ultimately - escape? Nothing wrong with that. If the dream is there, the desire and the motivation, then that's all you need, whatever reason you go into trading for. For traders though, and I wrote a short piece about this above, the road can be particularly difficult because of the public perception of what a trader is or does.
I appreciate that piece of yours

But escape? Why do you want to escape? I'd rather live fully, taking in both the light and the dark sides of the terrible beauty and mystery of life.

If one wants to escape, there are easier options - drugs, alcohol, suicide, or any other way to rid oneself of the burden of consciousness.


On a different note, what wonderful volatility

Apparently all news driven. First the Azerbaijani moan about life as an oil producer, triggering stops on the downside, then the Russians take the initiative to an OPEC and non-OPEC meeting to steer up the oil price.

Wouldn't be surprised to see yet another unexpected reversal upwards. Oil is on the up after the Russian imitative. Took long from 9691 but bailed at yesterday's low.

Now break for fresh air. Catch you all later.
  • #452
  • Jan 28, 2016 6:35am Jan 28, 2016 6:35am
[quote=medici;8717219]{quote} I appreciate that piece of yours But escape? Why do you want to escape? I'd rather live fully, taking in both the light and the dark sides of the terrible beauty and mystery of life. If one wants to escape, there are easier options - drugs, alcohol, suicide, or any other way to rid oneself of the burden of consciousness.

That's not escape, that's capitulation. Everything we do involves some measure of escape - we start out escaping from our mother's womb. We lock ourselves into our room or go to a friend's house to escape our parents. We get married and have children to escape the loneliness of old age. We go on holiday to escape the routine of everyday life, and we continually work to escape the confines of our lives which hold us back. Only when it is all over do we leave the final chain behind us. If trading is a form of escapism, then I'm right up there at the head of the pack.
  • #453
  • Jan 28, 2016 7:24am Jan 28, 2016 7:24am
Quoting cat
That's not escape, that's capitulation. Everything we do involves some measure of escape - we start out escaping from our mother's womb. We lock ourselves into our room or go to a friend's house to escape our parents. We get married and have children to escape the loneliness of old age. We go on holiday to escape the routine of everyday life, and we continually work to escape the confines of our lives which hold us back. Only when it is all over do we leave the final chain behind us. If trading is a form of escapism, then I'm right up there at the head of the pack.

Hmm, I think we have very different outlooks on life....I'd like to quote W.H. Auden:

Quote
We are lived by powers we pretend to understand:
They arrange our loves; it is they who direct at the end
The enemy bullet, the sickness, or even our hand.

To align yourself with those powers means becoming fully and wholly yourself, and that is a freedom beyond any escape.

Escaping the womb? I'd rather say that most people on an escapist mission have a deep urge to escape back to the womb - warm and safe, full board and lodging, and no need to worry about the bills.

Trading and making money doesn't do that for you. Until you have faced life and yourself, you will always be on the run, like the chap still escaping his dad's bankruptcy.

But trading can be an excellent way of facing yourself, and making money can be a means towards something, rather than an escape from something. But the money making itself is never the meaning or purpose.
  • #454
  • Jan 28, 2016 7:54am Jan 28, 2016 7:54am
Quoting medici
{quote} and no need to worry about the bills. Trading and making money doesn't do that for you. Until you have faced life and yourself, you will always be on the run, like the chap still escaping his dad's bankruptcy. But trading can be an excellent way of facing yourself, and making money can be a means towards something, rather than an escape from something. But the money making itself is never the meaning or purpose.
Well it certainly helps me pay the bills, and that, believe it or not, makes me happy.

I faced life and myself well before i came into trading in my mid forties. Before that I was never on the run, I was on a journey through life as I will always be even though ( I hope ) I have finally found my niche in the vocational sense of the word. You are right to say that trading forces you to face yourself for it exposes in the cruelest way possible all those weaknesses you knew you had but were never prepared to fully acknowledge. Once you have recognized and overcome these weaknesses, then you are on the road to trading success. It could well be that the younger you are, the more difficult it is to reconcile yourself to these weaknesses, or perhaps it is the other way around, I don't know.

Going back to our original discussion concerning the reasons for becoming a trader, I maintain that they are the same for all of us, namely to make money, though perhaps, just perhaps, the more life experience a trader has going into trading, the more resilient he/she will be when confronted with the inevitable challenges.
  • #455
  • Jan 28, 2016 8:12am Jan 28, 2016 8:12am
Quoting cat
{quote} I faced life and myself well before i came into trading in my mid forties. Before that I was never on the run, I was on a journey through life as I will always be even though ( I hope ) I have finally found my niche in the vocational sense of the word. You are right to say that trading forces you to face yourself for it exposes in the cruelest way possible all those weaknesses you knew you had but were never prepared to fully acknowledge. Once you have recognized and overcome these weaknesses, then you are on the road to trading success....
Thank you for sharing. We agree in the end although coming at it from different angles.

Yes, I think it's a good idea to advice young people against a career as a retail trader. I know three people who never held a "real job" but made it as a trader right after school. They all have found "trading only" hollow after a few years, and have tried to find meaning by other means.

One guy in particular comes to mind, whom I once interviewed for a job. He later ended up with a hedge fund, but due to his strange start to working life, he remains "just a trader" - trading became a life trap, from which he as yet (to my knowledge) has been unable to find an escape.

So my advice to people without life experience would be to first let themselves be formed in the fires of life - and after that consider trading as a career.
  • #456
  • Jan 28, 2016 8:30am Jan 28, 2016 8:30am
Quoting medici
{quote} So my advice to people without life experience would be to first let themselves be formed in the fires of life - and after that consider trading as a career.
here here!
  • #457
  • Jan 28, 2016 10:04am Jan 28, 2016 10:04am
Quoting medici
{quote} Thank you for sharing. We agree in the end although coming at it from different angles. Yes, I think it's a good idea to advice young people against a career as a retail trader. I know three people who never held a "real job" but made it as a trader right after school. They all have found "trading only" hollow after a few years, and have tried to find meaning by other means. One guy...
Excellent post medici !
  • #458
  • Jan 28, 2016 11:59am Jan 28, 2016 11:59am
Quoting medici
{quote} Thank you for sharing. We agree in the end although coming at it from different angles. Yes, I think it's a good idea to advice young people against a career as a retail trader. I know three people who never held a "real job" but made it as a trader right after school. They all have found "trading only" hollow after a few years, and have tried to find meaning by other means. One guy in particular comes to mind, whom I once interviewed for a job. He later ended up with a hedge fund, but due to his strange start to working life, he remains...
Sound advice.
Unfortunately, the lure of easy money (it is bloody hard, in fact!) hooks youngsters. You only have to read the rants on this forum to see how many there are. Each wanting to try the latest indicator/EA. Most wanting tips on where to buy and where to sell.
There is so much advertising of FX that it it is inevitable to hook the youngsters.
None the wiser!
  • #459
  • Edited 3:53pm Jan 28, 2016 3:41pm | Edited 3:53pm
A post I read on this thread yesterday has prompted me to make this quick entry this evening, and it is on the subject of fear. Fear of pulling the trigger is something every trader who has ever existed has had to confront. Some manage to overcome it, others never do. The best way to overcome fear of course is to confront it head on, and in trading terms this means doing what you fear - taking trades when your strategy gives you the green light to go. It sounds straightforward, but it isn't, and most people will choke at one time or another, either not taking a perfectly good trading opportunity, or bailing out when they're a few pips in the green, as the price turns back against them. This behavior will cause havoc with your trading, and I speak from experience.

I don't want to go too deeply into this because we are all aware of it. What I do want to share with people is one of the things that helped me overcome this fear of being wrong, and that was the experience of WW2 fighter pilots. These guys, especially during the height of the Battle of Britain between June and October 1940, went to bed each night never knowing if they would still be alive at the same time tomorrow, and yet they found the courage to fight on day after day, under what must have been the kind of stress none of us will ever know. I began reading their incredible stories some years ago, and it helped my trading enormously because it made me realize the futility of the fear i was experiencing. Their heroism and bravery in the face of such incredible adversity made me feel angry at myself for fearing something as meaningless and simple as pressing the button on a mouse when the opportunity arose. I have never been a coward, and have done things in my life other people have viewed as extremely brave, yet here I was, sitting in my office, having spent thousands of hours educating myself, but unable to pull the trigger or see a trade through to its conclusion because of a stupid, irrational fear which threatened to put an end to my career as a trader. The pilot's stories gave me what I needed at the right time - the right frame of mind to really attack the markets when I needed to. They were the catalyst I needed to help put the fear behind me, because as a lone trader, with no colleagues, no one I could turn to for advice or help, this was something I had to overcome entirely by myself..

If anyone is interested in this post and would perhaps like to read one or two of these incredible books, I'm attaching a few of my favourite ones below, though there are many others, and they are all wonderful, inspiring reads. Some of these men are still alive, and one, Geoffrey Wellum, author of ' First Light ', who is now 95, even sent me a Christmas card a few years ago, which I proudly have on display in my office.

You may also be interested in these aviation quotes, some are extremely applicable for trading -
http://www.skygod.com/quotes/combat.html
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  • #460
  • Jan 28, 2016 5:06pm Jan 28, 2016 5:06pm
Quoting cat
A post I read on this thread yesterday has prompted me to make this quick entry this evening, and it is on the subject of fear. Fear of pulling the trigger is something every trader who has ever existed has had to confront. Some manage to overcome it, others never do. The best way to overcome fear of course is to confront it head on, and in trading terms this means doing what you fear - taking trades when your strategy gives you the green light to go. It sounds straightforward, but it isn't, and most people will choke at one time or another, either...
Wonderful post Thank you

Some new items to the reading list

Too late to blabber much, and I've done enough of that lately! But, yes, the warrior spirit is at the core of it. Here's a short clip that expresses the nature of the challenges well:

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