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  • #61
  • Jan 12, 2016 5:58pm Jan 12, 2016 5:58pm
Should be like when we open account with a broker.
The presentation of documentation is required.
To be a commercial member.
  • #62
  • Jan 12, 2016 6:35pm Jan 12, 2016 6:35pm
Quoting Winston Reed
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} Yes, can not disagree with anything you say here. But I have been, or at least tried to be transparent with anyone who wishes to subscribe. I have given the strategy away for free and if traders wish to be part of the group trading the strategy they get live calls of all my trades (before the fact) - from which they can very quickly see for themselves if it is working for me or other members. I have had 2 members that have wished to leave and they received a full refund (one decided trading was no longer for him,
...
nice, I'm happy to participate
tradewith60
  • #63
  • Jan 12, 2016 6:38pm Jan 12, 2016 6:38pm
Quoting seahorse
Should be like when we open account with a broker. The presentation of documentation is required. To be a commercial member.
you're missing the obvious again - a broker makes his money how? and FF makes it's money how?
tradewith60
  • #64
  • Jan 12, 2016 7:04pm Jan 12, 2016 7:04pm
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} ​Thanks JMN5611. I appreciate your comments. First I haven't attacked anyone. I have merely asked them for evidence. That is not an attack. FF is in danger of being a site that by really doing nothing to regulate the commercial members they are actually promoting their activities. I believe newbie traders should be prevented from access to the commercial section for a period of time and in fact FF should provide a disclaimer and warning about expectations. It could be argued that FF is just a maze but simply solved with all destinations...
FF does regulate it's commercial members. If you are commercial you cannot PM anyone, nor can you start any threads anywhere except the commercial section. Your ability to communicate in the forum is severely hampered. The commercial threads do not appear on the homepage. So, an individual must seek out the commercial section to participate.

As far as the buyer beware attitude being inadequate, I am not sure what nation you are from, but in capitalistic nations, it is up to the buyer to not be lazy and do their homework before they put their hard earned money down. You can't save people Winston, they have to learn their own lessons in their own time.

Lastly, calling a website or forum handle ILLEGITIMATE in big red letters is definitely an attack, as you are attempting to cast dispersion upon them.

I do not support any vendor, nor am I invested in FF. But I do believe in free speech.....and free markets.

This is great discussion, btw.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #65
  • Jan 12, 2016 10:01pm Jan 12, 2016 10:01pm
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} FF does regulate it's commercial members. If you are commercial you cannot PM anyone, nor can you start any threads anywhere except the commercial section. Your ability to communicate in the forum is severely hampered. The commercial threads do not appear on the homepage. So, an individual must seek out the commercial section to participate. As far as the buyer beware attitude being inadequate, I am not sure what nation you are from, but in capitalistic nations, it is up to the buyer to not be lazy and do their homework before they put their...
​I am from US and very much a capitalist. But even in US we have regulations to protect consumers which interestingly commercial members are not subject too. Regarding attacks I agree the language was inflammatory and I have withdrawn it and will be instituting more objective language. I am enjoying the conversation also and appreciate your comments.
  • #66
  • Jan 12, 2016 10:56pm Jan 12, 2016 10:56pm
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} ​I am from US and very much a capitalist. But even in US we have regulations to protect consumers which interestingly commercial members are not subject too. Regarding attacks I agree the language was inflammatory and I have withdrawn it and will be instituting more objective language. I am enjoying the conversation also and appreciate your comments.
Now here is something that the Factory could do. They could do just like the ForexPeaceArmy and have it's members review and rate some of the services offered here. This is by far the largest Forex website on earth and that would carry a lot of weight. It would encourage top vendors to perform better. Lesser ones would be destroyed. Just one way to do it.

Dissatisfied users could rate the service, or voice concerns. Just like the Broker forum where Jason Rogers in on constant patrol for FXCM.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #67
  • Edited Jan 13, 2016 12:17am Jan 12, 2016 11:34pm | Edited Jan 13, 2016 12:17am
Quoting Winston Reed
I believe the vast majority of commercial members here at FF cannot and will not provide any evidence of profit. I believe the vast majority of commercial members here at FF have a history of not being profitable but are likely very experienced and are able to parlay this experience into a profitable venture selling their experience. I believe the vast majority of traders who pay fees to commercial members cannot provide evidence of profit based on what they learn from the commercial members.​ So far I have had little success obtaining any...
A very admirable aim of yours, but I think that both evidence of profit and credentials can be misleading.

Some experienced traders may, for good reason, want to avoid the increased self-consciousness that comes with publishing their trading records. Or there may be other valid reasons for not doing so.

And there are people with good credentials who can't trade. I know a former manager of an fx desk at a major investment bank here in London who readily admits he can't trade - in the sense of retail/prop trading - but he's an expert at front-running client orders and market making, for example. His credentials could easily dupe the uninitiated.

As in any professional service market, I believe the only viable measures to evaluate a trading coach/mentor/educator by are happy clients and reputation. Perhaps FF or you could find a way of providing that? When buying stuff from amazon, one is used to obtaining lots of useful information from the customer reviews. Why not the same for the commercial members here?
  • #68
  • Jan 13, 2016 1:22am Jan 13, 2016 1:22am
Quoting medici
{quote} A very admirable aim of yours, but I think that both evidence of profit and credentials can be misleading. Some experienced traders may, for good reason, want to avoid the increased self-consciousness that comes with publishing their trading records. Or there may be other valid reasons for not doing so. And there are people with good credentials who can't trade. I know a former manager of an fx desk at a major investment bank here in London who readily admits he can't trade - in the sense of retail/prop trading - but he's an expert at front-running...
The problem is Amazon, like trip Advisor , and other sites are plagued by false reviews. Perhaps developing the skill of reading between the lines would help.
But why pay when so much is here for free on various sites - just requires hard work which, maybe, is why so many seek the easy route or grail ?
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #69
  • Jan 13, 2016 1:40am Jan 13, 2016 1:40am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} The problem is Amazon, like trip Advisor , and other sites are plagued by false reviews. Perhaps developing the skill of reading between the lines would help.
Exactly. At the end of the day, one will have to learn to figure out who to trust. Nobody can do it for you.

Quote
But why pay when so much is here for free on various sites - just requires hard work which, maybe, is why so many seek the easy route or grail ?

Couldn't agree more.

And to believe that there's an easy route to making in a day what most make in a month - one that doesn't involve commitment and hard work - and that it will be handed to you for a reasonable fee of a few hundreds or thousands...Maybe that belief is the reason for getting screwed by various would-be mentors and coaches, rather than the rottenness of the latter. As a famous trader said, in the markets everybody gets what they want.
  • #70
  • Jan 13, 2016 1:58am Jan 13, 2016 1:58am
Im really confused ,you paid the year J16 ,and from what I can tell you use pa ,which is j16 method , in a simplified way
from where i stand most important thing is can I learn something from this person or not



Quoting Winston Reed
By the way I do trade. Here's a couple I'm currently in. {image}{image}
On-site guru & also FF member's' psychiatrist, when not drinking tea
  • #71
  • Jan 13, 2016 3:16am Jan 13, 2016 3:16am
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} ​I hate to keep repeating myself. If you make a claim that you are profitable then you must back it up. Otherwise it is and unsubstantiated and really meaningless statement.
I'm not posting my broker statement. My reputation on this forum is my proof - if that's insufficient you can ignore me.
  • #72
  • Jan 13, 2016 9:52am Jan 13, 2016 9:52am
Winston, one of the most sacred principles in just about every country's criminal justice system is the presumption of innocence, holding that a defendant is innocent until proven guilty. In other words, the prosecution (you in this case) must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, each essential element of the crime charged. You cannot just brand an educator as ILLEGITIMATE simply because they refused to share their private account information with you. That is like me walking into a men's health medical center demanding that the doctors show me their thingamajigs and if they refuse, then I yell out "Hey everyone, look, another 1 inch wonder!" Ridiculous isn't it?

Don't ask these people for proof. YOU must PROVE to your audience that your accusations are in fact true. Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat.
Learn what that means. And stop trying to tarnish the reputation of people that have helped you.
  • #73
  • Jan 13, 2016 12:22pm Jan 13, 2016 12:22pm
In every civilized country's criminal justice system the presumption of innocence works because 99% of people in those countries are innocent. Now, in trading educators' universe, 99% are frauds, so the reverse principle is applied: assumed guilty until proven innocent.
The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else. I hate that.
  • #74
  • Jan 13, 2016 12:30pm Jan 13, 2016 12:30pm
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} Yes, I have good times and bad times, but I approach trading from a very different perspective to most. I do that because it suits what I want from trading. I am not in the take $10k and turn it into a million camp - I just look to trade a small account and withdraw profits each month. I use it as a small and consistent income and my trading is tailored to fit that. I was badly burned by releasing financial information to people I dont know in the past which led to a lengthy and costly court case - So I wont do that again... the internet...
Thanks for answering 60 and good luck in your trading.
  • #75
  • Jan 13, 2016 5:40pm Jan 13, 2016 5:40pm
Quoting Bones
Im really confused ,you paid the year J16 ,and from what I can tell you use pa ,which is j16 method , in a simplified way from where i stand most important thing is can I learn something from this person or not {quote}
​Thanks Bones. I appreciate your comments. The issue is not what method of trading I use. I think the issue is quite clear but ignored and/or minimized. J16 didn't invent PA.
  • #76
  • Jan 13, 2016 5:43pm Jan 13, 2016 5:43pm
Quoting TheMaxx
{quote} I'm not posting my broker statement. My reputation on this forum is my proof - if that's insufficient you can ignore me.
​This is the first I've heard of you Maxx. I mean no disrespect but what reputation are you talking about?
  • #77
  • Jan 13, 2016 5:44pm Jan 13, 2016 5:44pm
Quoting incognito517
Winston, one of the most sacred principles in just about every country's criminal justice system is the presumption of innocence, holding that a defendant is innocent until proven guilty. In other words, the prosecution (you in this case) must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, each essential element of the crime charged. You cannot just brand an educator as ILLEGITIMATE simply because they refused to share their private account information with you. That is like me walking into a men's health medical center demanding that the doctors show me their...
​I have withdrawn the labels and will be instituting objective criteria of what commercial members offer. This is coming very soon.
  • #78
  • Jan 13, 2016 6:22pm Jan 13, 2016 6:22pm
​I have been in contact with a commercial member who seems to agree with my position. I have hesitated revealing this commercial member because he is likely to incur some negative press. But he has requested that I recognize him here in this thread.

Petar Serbia from "The Art of Trading with Petar Serbia". Petar has a trade explorer that is currently in positive territory. He has also agree to provide additional information which I will post as I receive it. As I am working on more objective criteria for vetting commercial members I am going to refrain from labeling of any commercial members at this time. In fact I don't think any lablelling will be done in the future. I will only be providing information that commercial members are willing to provide.
  • #79
  • Jan 13, 2016 8:13pm Jan 13, 2016 8:13pm
A good case in point...
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=8689224#post8689224
Look Left Trade Right
  • #80
  • Jan 14, 2016 5:10am Jan 14, 2016 5:10am
Hello everyone,
This thread is on the point. There is no such a thread like this to filter "bad guys". In this business there is many scams and many fake services around. Traders loosing time and money trying to find "holy grail" and trying to buy as many strategies,robots they can... This is serious business and it deserves to be treated on that way. Yes, i agree that everyone create own destiny and take responsibility for own action but why not to help them and filter potential scams or nontested strategies.
BTW. 90% of techniques,mentors explaing only one part of technical analzying the market. The reality is that in professional world before even watching technical chart there must be a fundamental conditions met. Fundamnetals, intermarket relation drives the market. I know that 90 % of comercials services are non professional just by filtering what they cover. If there is no professional education on fundamentals and intermarket relation , you can just forget about that service.
I am in professional field many years and every professional analyst will tell you the same.

This thread is very good !

Best Regards,
Petar
"Buy on fear, sell on greed !!!
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