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(binned per thread starter’s request) Society of Traders Vetting

  • #21
  • Jan 10, 2016 10:31pm Jan 10, 2016 10:31pm
Any trader thinking of paying a commercial member has the right to ask the commercial member for performance data. A refusal to provide the data or ridiculing or demonizing the request speaks volumes about the commercial member. It is time to demand accountability from these commercial members peddling fees from unsuspecting aspiring traders. The reality is that these commercial members likely are not making any real money off trading their own methods. I have submitted requests and invitations for these commercial members to prove otherwise. So far no takers.
  • #22
  • Jan 11, 2016 1:22am Jan 11, 2016 1:22am
Hi, I absolutely agree with topic starter that commercial members should provide some kind of proof that their trading systems work and give some profit. It is very easy to do - just show myfxbook monitoring page of their account. I can not understand why they do not do it.
As for me I learned supply and demand by Alfonso Moreno here and also I was a member of his private community. What can I say? His system really works. I use it in my everyday trading. Yes, it's difficult. Yes, it needs many tests to understand it. I can not use all opportunities and signals provided by this system but I use only some of them which I understand and believe. So I'm sure that Alfonso will be able to prove his system and I hope he will do it and benefit from it.
  • #23
  • Jan 11, 2016 1:50am Jan 11, 2016 1:50am
sounds like sour grapes cos you were banned from a thread. Proper spat your dummy out.
  • #24
  • Jan 11, 2016 2:23am Jan 11, 2016 2:23am
Quoting leeshindig
sounds like sour grapes cos you were banned from a thread. Proper spat your dummy out.
lol who's having a sour grape moment??

for me its more like a revelation to not have to care about the EURUSD thread anymore. besides I got my 420 twitter followers to attend to.
We live in a finite world with infinite possibilities.
FxTyrant M-Series (Live - Darwinex) All Time Return: 0.7%
  • #25
  • Jan 11, 2016 2:25am Jan 11, 2016 2:25am
Quoting leeshindig
sounds like sour grapes cos you were banned from a thread. Proper spat your dummy out.
So.... are you a successful FX Trader?No BS tell us the truth....please...pretty please are you rolling in it after 9 years on the FF? I bet you are another failure???????????????????
  • #26
  • Jan 11, 2016 2:49am Jan 11, 2016 2:49am
Quoting edge540
{quote} So.... are you a successful FX Trader?No BS tell us the truth....please...pretty please are you rolling in it after 9 years on the FF? I bet you are another failure???????????????????
he's just another wannabe failure who doesn't have anything to show
We live in a finite world with infinite possibilities.
FxTyrant M-Series (Live - Darwinex) All Time Return: 0.7%
  • #27
  • Jan 11, 2016 2:59am Jan 11, 2016 2:59am
By the way I do trade. Here's a couple I'm currently in.

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  • #28
  • Jan 11, 2016 3:49am Jan 11, 2016 3:49am
Quoting fxtyrant
{quote} he's just another wannabe failure who doesn't have anything to show
If you are referring to me Mr Tyrant you are correct,I want to be a successful trader but I'm not so I suppose I'm a failure and yes you are correct I've nothing to show.
  • #29
  • Jan 11, 2016 4:04am Jan 11, 2016 4:04am
Quoting fxtyrant
{quote} lol who's having a sour grape moment??
lol.. you can't mean me, I don't like grapes.
  • #30
  • Jan 11, 2016 7:23am Jan 11, 2016 7:23am
Quoting Ivan-M
Hi, I absolutely agree with topic starter that commercial members should provide some kind of proof that their trading systems work and give some profit. It is very easy to do - just show myfxbook monitoring page of their account. I can not understand why they do not do it. As for me I learned supply and demand by Alfonso Moreno here and also I was a member of his private community. What can I say? His system really works. I use it in my everyday trading. Yes, it's difficult. Yes, it needs many tests to understand it. I can not use all opportunities...
Since you promote Alfonso -Show us your statements Ivan.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #31
  • Jan 11, 2016 7:41am Jan 11, 2016 7:41am
Quoting Ivan-M
Hi, I absolutely agree with topic starter that commercial members should provide some kind of proof that their trading systems work and give some profit. It is very easy to do - just show myfxbook monitoring page of their account. I can not understand why they do not do it. As for me I learned supply and demand by Alfonso Moreno here and also I was a member of his private community. What can I say? His system really works. I use it in my everyday trading. Yes, it's difficult. Yes, it needs many tests to understand it. I can not use all opportunities...
​Ivan thank you for your post but any promotion of a commercial member must be backed with evidence of profit. Your statements are unsubstantiated.
  • #32
  • Jan 11, 2016 7:57am Jan 11, 2016 7:57am
Update and vetting thus far.

James 16: After several back and forth emails Jim ignored my request to provide any type of data supporting profitability of anyone at www.james16group.us (http://www.james16group.us). In fact he is refunding my lifetime membership. I do want to give credit where credit is due. Jim did engage me in conversation and although it was a bit heated Jim was civil. But unfortunately no one from the J16 group is willing to provide any kind of statement of profit. Therefore I have no choice but to put them in the ILLEGITIMATE category.

Spiders Den: Tarantula has visited his thread here at FF several times since my request was posted there and he has ignored it. So at this point they are ILLEGITIMATE.​

Alfonso Moreno: Also has visited his thread since my request was posted on his thread and it has been ignored. His website earns an ILLEGITIMATE status.

Strat: ​Strat acknowledged my post but refused to provide evidence of profit. So his site is also ​ILLEGITIMATE

Trade with 60: He has visited his thread since my request was posted on his thread and thus far has ignored it. So his site is ILLEGITIMATE.
  • #33
  • Jan 11, 2016 8:53am Jan 11, 2016 8:53am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Since you promote Alfonso -Show us your statements Ivan.
I'm not going to promote or disprove Alfonso or anybody else, my friend.

Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} ​Ivan thank you for your post but any promotion of a commercial member must be backed with evidence of profit. Your statements are unsubstantiated.
I can show it to you in private if you promise not to publish it anywhere.
  • #34
  • Jan 11, 2016 9:29am Jan 11, 2016 9:29am
Excellent thread Winston, I admire you for all the time and effort you are putting into this thread and look forward to following it.

I will be interested to see the list grow and if any pass as legitimate.
  • #35
  • Jan 11, 2016 12:12pm Jan 11, 2016 12:12pm
Quoting Ivan-M
{quote} I'm not going to promote or disprove Alfonso or anybody else, my friend. {quote} I can show it to you in private if you promise not to publish it anywhere.
Ivan -my request was to prove your unproven comments -so show Winston by all means to prove whether you are profitable or otherwise. I am not interested in Alfonso or anyone else -simply whether your written statement of being profitable is true or utter bollocks. So show Winston in private by all means. That way we can ensure this thread remains true to Winston's initial post.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #36
  • Jan 11, 2016 7:57pm Jan 11, 2016 7:57pm
Consumers have a right to be informed about the products they buy. The manufacturer of the product may or may not provide information about the product but more and more government is intervening and requiring companies to provide information on their products. Traders thinking about buying a product/s from a commercial member who makes outright claims or underlying assumptions that the product will result in profit have a right to know whether or not the trading product has in fact a record of profit.

So as I have already shown there will be commercial members who refuse to provide performance data on the products they sell to aspiring traders and there will be commercial members who are willing to provide such data. The prospective buyers of these products have a right to know which type of commercial member they are dealing with. A transparent one that provides past and ongoing performance or one that is secretive and refuses.

It's a no brainer to me.
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  • #37
  • Jan 11, 2016 11:38pm Jan 11, 2016 11:38pm
Quoting Winston Reed
To vet means to investigate. The results of the investigation will prove that a commercial member falls into one of two categories: 1. Legitimate - commercial member has provided performance data on the product or products sold and the data proves profitability. 2. Illegitimate - The commercial member has not provided performance data or refuses to provide such data but continues to sell products and suggesting to buyers that the products will result in profit. This thread will provide an ongoing and updated list of the most active commercial members...
Great thread Winston!

Thought you might like the following link as I was sort of getting at the same thing in a tongue-in-cheek way:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=564539
Follow me on twitter @FxLester
  • #38
  • Jan 12, 2016 1:51am Jan 12, 2016 1:51am
Quoting Winston Reed
Consumers have a right to be informed about the products they buy. The manufacturer of the product may or may not provide information about the product but more and more government is intervening and requiring companies to provide information on their products. Traders thinking about buying a product/s from a commercial member who makes outright claims or underlying assumptions that the product will result in profit have a right to know whether or not the trading product has in fact a record of profit. So as I have already shown there will be commercial...
Of course it is a no brainer for you Winston because you are to some extent completely missing the point. Trading is not as black and white as most people believe, it is a completely uncertain endeavour, it is gambling. We risk money trying to make profit on events with uncertain outcomes - that's gambling (although nobody likes to accept this). If this is not true then all we need to do is find the trader making the most money (right now! Livermore???) and copy what he has been doing. But as we know this does not always work out (Turtles...) Now obviously if a commercial member is selling you that.. "sign up now and I will make you rich" - then yes I can see your point. But, if a commercial member is saying - "it's not just the strategy, it is the environment and the way you think about trading as a whole" then the value of paying for those services can not just be measured in how much money the trader or the members may or may not currently be making. If we ran a poll for traders who have considered reading market wizzards to be helpful or not to their trading I would guess a larger percentage would say it had - It certainly made me question the status quo - all these guys made a lot of money by swimming against the current, maybe we need to think a little more outside the box?

So, although looking at profits will tell us part of the story, asking the members if they felt the course offered good value to them would also be worth knowing, would it not?.... The information they have received may not currently make them profit but may well start them on a course of looking at trading from a different perspective and eventually lead them to finding a consistent and profitable way to trade. Current advances in neuroscience have taught us a lot about how we make decisions in uncertain environments and these skills are not easy or natural for humans to learn - but learning them or even just being aware of them can, or maybe will, help us as traders through trial and error to find a way to be profitable.

So, if you would like me to poll my members (which includes Swiss bankers, academics, financial advisors - a whole mix of people) and ask them if they felt they received good value from what they have learned - then I will, happily. I think at the heart of what you are trying to achieve here is a good idea, but crucially - it is this sort of mindset that traps people in an eternal loop of losing money as a trader.

I don't wish to extend this debate anymore, I have said how I feel and I hope maybe I have at least made you think a little deeper or a little bit outside the box.

Lastly, with regards your post on my thread - no, I do not only make my income from trading, I have 4 businesses and all are profitable and to a certain extent successful - at the same time I don't want to rely solely on trading, it is a very uncertain endeavour....(and I have always been very open about that fact).

good luck Winston and good trading.

oops I do need to add to this: my members get live calls of ALL my entries and ALL my exits (not after the fact, with pending orders before the trade has triggered) there is zero smoke and mirrors going on - they know exactly how well or not I am performing.
tradewith60
  • #39
  • Jan 12, 2016 2:37am Jan 12, 2016 2:37am
To be fair to the Factory, as soon as someone has shown that they are selling a product, they will put the commercial tag on them. As far as whether a site is legitimate or not, it is up to the buyer to vet the information. It is not against the law for the seller to make any kind of claim they want as long as it is not a medical one, or some other regulated industry. I believe the FTC or whoever regulates trading sites makes everyone say, "past results to not guarantee future results, and everything is hypothetical", blah, blah.....

Now if the buyer STILL wants to throw money at the vendor, I believe that is called capitalism.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with that.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #40
  • Jan 12, 2016 2:52am Jan 12, 2016 2:52am
Completely agree with the two posts above.

If it's in the commercial section, it's commercial. The place would be boring without it imo.

Becoming a forum cop may appeal to you, but what you're trying to police happens everyday in every walk of life.

I mean how many times have you seen a "miracle" exercise gizmo advertised on main stream tv, by someone who looks like they've lived in a gym for 10 solid years?

Is that item going to make the couch potato eating chips at home look like that??
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