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Trading without stop-losses

  • #281
  • Dec 28, 2015 8:33pm Dec 28, 2015 8:33pm
and stop loss is a part of ur analysis when u trying to predict the price movement, with a good analysis u can place ur stop loss take profit at the right position, if u think ur stop lose not make cant make more profit dont think about how usles ur SL, just blame ur analysis after u do it u need to try to improve it to make more profit at ur next trading.
  • #282
  • Dec 29, 2015 12:10am Dec 29, 2015 12:10am
Quoting gabanda
and stop loss is a part of ur analysis when u trying to predict the price movement, with a good analysis u can place ur stop loss take profit at the right position, if u think ur stop lose not make cant make more profit dont think about how usles ur SL, just blame ur analysis after u do it u need to try to improve it to make more profit at ur next trading.

Well do show us how good your trading (at least 2 years worth) is using that stop loss you're so convinced about using?
Your results reflects using the stop loss right?
  • #283
  • Dec 29, 2015 2:37am Dec 29, 2015 2:37am
  •  Zinot
  • | Joined Dec 2015 | Status: VUIP - Very UnImportant Person | 138 Posts
I am not sure about the preposters systems and how this works out with or without a SL. In my opinion it is crucial to know in EVERY situation how much capital will flush down the toilet when everything goes wrong.

I had to learn the hard way (-98% in a 2hour window), that everything could happen at any time...

Now I am in for capita preservation and there the #1 point is to know your risk.

I am working in a major insurance company and therefor FX is a SIMPLE risk(y) evalutaion business. Everything else is just gambling... Of course you could say that SL is never the end of every trade but it gives your risk the most secure boundries you could have...

This discussion will never hae a consence...
Insanity: doing the same over and over again & expecting different results!
  • #284
  • Dec 30, 2015 2:51pm Dec 30, 2015 2:51pm
Quoting scottik187
I don't trade with a SL anymore, but that's because my method is a little unconventional. If I were starting out I would definitely use one. You need to protect your capital. But they're so frustrating ... how many times do you make a trades, watch the price run your SL only to reverse the opposite direction? You curse the world, get angry, try and chase your loss etc. Too much emotional difficulty there for me.
If the stop gets hit very often or at a rate it is killing you around, it only means the stop does not fit into your system. There is nothing wrong placing the stop, but where.


Quoting ArjunMakhija
Hello, According to me, I would like to keep a stop loss in case the conditions prevailing in the market are uncertain and volatile. For example, when I was trading near the FOMC meeting this month, on all the trades I had kept a Target profit along with STOP LOSS. The stop loss helps us prevent major losses which can potentially happen during the turbulent market conditions. Its is a basic risk management tool during the rout in equities markets or commodities market or forex market. Be safe and put SL in case trading during volatility or when...
Correct. sl also protect and lock your profit before you trade the FOMC, too.

Quoting mozart4646
I tried trading without a sl for while I would make a profit then blow it all in one trade i wouldn't recommend it Id say that you definitely need sl so at the moment my sl is 10 pips
perhaps it's better to use the % per risk, and ATR to calculate the amount of pips you would use for SL.
GBPJPY, GBPNZD would take out that 10 pips SL in less than 5 seconds in any opening hour around the clock.

Quoting BubaYaga
If you live in denial you could make a synthetic stop loss with a hedge. you could probably successfully average out of losing positions most of the time. Is margin call considered a stop loss? You don't have to use a stop loss necessarily. There are plenty of different ways people can trade. But the question is - would you trade without any risk management?
I would say any successful trading would have a solid risk management. SL = Risk Management
Margin call is NOT a risk management. Margin call is a COMPLETE DEFEAT and one's reality check (if he continue believe the table will turn).
When I was interviewed as rogue FX trader for oversea investment bank back in 2012, any DD over 15% would be considered as poor risk management.

Quoting tommyho7
I used to water ski. I hated to fall and I would actually hang on to the tow rope and the boat would just drag me. There is no way I can trade with out a stop. As Al Brooks says, "your stop is nearly as important as your entry". This helps me to determine my entry BTW. If I don't have a stop above or below an area or resistance or support that fits my plan, I can't enter.
I would like to believe sl is more important than the entry. Defining stop would be the very first step of risk managing. Once you entry, you are at risk. No entry, no risk.

BTW, I like that water ski example.

Quoting gabanda
and stop loss is a part of ur analysis when u trying to predict the price movement, with a good analysis u can place ur stop loss take profit at the right position, if u think ur stop lose not make cant make more profit dont think about how usles ur SL, just blame ur analysis after u do it u need to try to improve it to make more profit at ur next trading.
I'd like to say and believe that you have blamed the wrong party. SL is a part of risk management, and analysis is analysis. Orange, and apple.
SL involved taking hits and cuts into your account. This skill needs to be learned in a painful way in most the case. That's the only way to improve your SL.

One day you would mistakenly feel your analysis is perfect with 100% probability, does that mean you can also withdraw the SL? Maybe we need to rethink that a little bit.



Quoting scottik187
SL is a great tool when you're learning, Id say it's essential actually. But as you gain experience and develop your own style and understanding, you may well find that SL is a big part of why you're losing.
Quoting leebsurag
I tend to retreat from using stops as playing with small lot and decent deposit you can expect the price will sometime enter profitable zone. Apart from my news straddle strategy use free-of-stop strategy to keep USD/RUB positions on Hotforex (mostly short ones as long swap is quite annoying) Just don't keep to big deposits to avoid being depleted by rollover spikes, etc.
Quoting gabanda
do trading without stop loss take a big risk, because for trader that have a much time for watch the price movement, stop loss is very needed. i just suggest better u use stop loss when u do forex trading.
Quoting gabanda
any trader have their own technique to do forex trading, if u think its work for u then i think its good for u. but for me, i'd rather to do trading without use stop lose, cause i choose to do trading by my own, ill focus when i do forex trading, cause i want to live by forex trading.

with or without the sl, here are my questions needs to be answer by yourself.

  1. would you drive a car without a break?
  2. would you be able to forecast the market correctly 100%, so every trade would be ended up winning and no need to have SL?
  3. would you be able to anticipate any news event or black swan event in the FX market at ALL time?
  4. would you like to well preserve your account WITHOUT the risk management by setting correct SL and fixed risk on every trade?
  5. would you like to trade your account WITHOUT knowing how much you gonna lose on the next or current position?

If you answer "NO" for any above questions, I would recommend you to have a sl set on every position you place.

btw, there are a lot more to how to set your stop and how it works with risk management. Learn it, try it and master it.

If u luv happiness, start w/ discomfort, make friends w/ pain and failure.
100 Hits 0 Miss All Time Return: 35.8%
  • #285
  • Dec 31, 2015 5:29pm Dec 31, 2015 5:29pm
Quoting FXSayWhat
{quote} If the stop gets hit very often or at a rate it is killing you around, it only means the stop does not fit into your system. There is nothing wrong placing the stop, but where. {quote} Correct. sl also protect and lock your profit before you trade the FOMC, too. {quote} perhaps it's better to use the % per risk, and ATR to calculate the amount of pips you would use for SL. GBPJPY, GBPNZD would take out that 10 pips SL in less than 5 seconds in any opening hour around the clock. {quote} I would say any successful trading would have a solid...
So we become successful traders like yourself?
  • #286
  • Jan 4, 2016 1:43am Jan 4, 2016 1:43am
I would never recommend trading anything without SL, but if you ask me do i have some traders (or trades in the past) done without SL, yes i do, as long as traders are certain and sure about some details to these trades, its a risk YES, a big risk, but it does fit some strategies, for starters just do not over think and once you execute that trade stick to you parameters at all cost, once you calculated RR ratio, you should have a mind set to accept a losing trade, and so on.. best of luck .
  • #287
  • Jan 4, 2016 2:58am Jan 4, 2016 2:58am
Quoting tradability
{quote} So we become successful traders like yourself?
trade with a sl as a key part of your risk management is just the start and foundation. Becoming a successful trader, that's really another story.
I am not successful, but i did trade intensively since 2007 and saw and experienced a lot more than the many traders on FF.

If you feel I am good at FX, thank you very much but i still have a lot to learn.

Quoting jiggz
yes i do, as long as traders are certain and sure about some details to these trades, its a risk YES, a big risk, but it does fit some strategies,
hi Jiggz, i would like to believe from the risk perspective, there is always risk an uncertainty once a trade is placed no matter how confident you are unless your human sense would be able to predict every next more in the next every second. If you are so sure your next trade would be a winner 100%, why are you afraid of placing an SL then? Same thing, if you be able to truly accept the risk on every single trade, why would you afraid to put down a sl then? Yes? No?
If u luv happiness, start w/ discomfort, make friends w/ pain and failure.
100 Hits 0 Miss All Time Return: 35.8%
  • #288
  • Jan 4, 2016 4:22am Jan 4, 2016 4:22am
I think trading without SL is, like somebody mentioned before, like driving a car without brakes. You may go through everyday trading without losses, but eventually you hit a loss that's gonna eat up all the profits and even more. I tried that and zeroed my account in a few days.
  • #290
  • Jan 4, 2016 9:34pm Jan 4, 2016 9:34pm
just like what i said, u need to improve ur analysis skill to predict the price movement, more great hur analys then more big ur chance to make profit and u will place ur SL at the best position. no one know 100% where the price will move, but anyone can predict the price movement by do some analysis they believe can predict the price movement.
  • #291
  • Edited 2:45am Jan 5, 2016 12:55am | Edited 2:45am
Quoting FXSayWhat
{quote} trade with a sl as a key part of your risk management is just the start and foundation. Becoming a successful trader, that's really another story. I am not successful, but i did trade intensively since 2007 and saw and experienced a lot more than the many traders on FF. If you feel I am good at FX, thank you very much but i still have a lot to learn. {quote} hi Jiggz, i would like to believe from the risk perspective, there is always risk an uncertainty once a trade is placed no matter how confident you are unless your human sense would...

Hi
I never said you were successful. The fact you are here and not trading to make a living tells the story. You can't be in two places at the same time!

What I implied is your conclusion is very narrow and based on your losses you made, your conclusion of which could be true or could be false. I am doing precisely the opposite of what your conclusion is with success which leads me to conclude the opposite is true right? BUT this doesn't mean your conclusion is the only one that is correct nor my way, it is just another perspective outlook.
With or without could be the best way to trade depending on your reasons and success. If you have a great strategy which uses SL then that's great BUT if you have a strategy which doesn't that just as good if it is working without risking your capital.

Happy trading!
  • #292
  • Jan 5, 2016 1:09pm Jan 5, 2016 1:09pm
I thinks SL is like having a seat belt, in case thinks go wrong and your money is going to crash, you prevent the hit break you...So, in my opinion you have to set a SL when you place an order or at some point later (in this case, itīll be much better if you are in front of your graphics all the time).
I guess everybody (who set a SL and who donīt) have at least a mental SL and TP, otherwise itīd be gambling insted trading or investing, right? And hopefully the TP in your mind is bigger than your SL, otherwise youīll need to have a very high percentage of positive trades to be profitable.
My two cents on this thread that I think it is not controversial in the end...or it shouldnīt be if you really want to make money trading Forex.
  • #293
  • Jan 5, 2016 1:34pm Jan 5, 2016 1:34pm
what is the matter guys, this is like discussing the color of someone's underwear. one likes red, other pink, another does not wear underwear at all.
everything depends on what method you use and your risk tolerance.
As Above, So Below
  • #294
  • Jan 5, 2016 2:44pm Jan 5, 2016 2:44pm
I don't see anything wrong trading with no SL. When you dig into the numbers all that trading no SL takes is understanding the condition of your account at all times - even before entry. Most are clueless about this. It's not something brokers teach but it's simple and everything you need to know is already on your platform.

It seems to me that most can't tell you how much drawdown their account can handle. That's a key component to beginning to understand why trading without a SL is possible.
"Holy Grail" exists - accepting where is the first step.
  • #295
  • Jan 5, 2016 2:45pm Jan 5, 2016 2:45pm
Quoting tashkent
what is the matter guys, this is like discussing the color of someone's underwear. one likes red, other pink, another does not wear underwear at all. everything depends on what method you use and your risk tolerance.
If you mean you can trade the way whatever you want...yes, of course. But if the point is what is safer, more profitable, and advisable...then sorry, but trading with SL is what it should be...the TP can be mental only if you are in front of the screen all the time, however I prefer to set i up from beginning too (even when sometimes I move it). I donīt care what underwear color you have...neither mine...lol
  • #296
  • Jan 5, 2016 4:09pm Jan 5, 2016 4:09pm
Quoting tashkent
what is the matter guys, this is like discussing the color of someone's underwear. one likes red, other pink, another does not wear underwear at all. everything depends on what method you use and your risk tolerance.
LOL @ UNDERWEAR and BRA COLOUR?
  • #297
  • Jan 5, 2016 4:13pm Jan 5, 2016 4:13pm
Quoting forexintradi
{quote} If you mean you can trade the way whatever you want...yes, of course. But if the point is what is safer, more profitable, and advisable...then sorry, but trading with SL is what it should be...the TP can be mental only if you are in front of the screen all the time, however I prefer to set i up from beginning too (even when sometimes I move it). I dont care what underwear color you have...neither mine...lol
Safer more profitable and advisable?
From those comments I can tell you have little clue about being a profitable trader hence lacking the understanding of what is a SL etc.
If the market gaps your SL is worth diddly squat so it is no safer than having a no stop loss plus while brokers your your edge you are weak in the pool of money that's why they spike the price. But you already knew that right? I mean you're not that stupid not to know that yes?
  • #298
  • Jan 5, 2016 4:17pm Jan 5, 2016 4:17pm
Quoting forexintradi
{quote} If you mean you can trade the way whatever you want...yes, of course. But if the point is what is safer, more profitable, and advisable...then sorry, but trading with SL is what it should be...the TP can be mental only if you are in front of the screen all the time, however I prefer to set i up from beginning too (even when sometimes I move it). I dont care what underwear color you have...neither mine...lol
no stop loss trading is possible. there are many ways of doing it. usually price comes back to the entry point and using stop loss is just waste of money. however, there are times the trend is too strong and you are stuck with your losing position. in such cases, you can use specific methods to avoid loss. one method among many is hedging. if you are in a negative position, instead of bailing out with loss, you can hedge that trade and ride the trend in the opposite direction until market starts moving in the original position's direction. keep cashing the profit and rinse and repeat until you break even or make profit. martingale is another trade management even though almost everybody (including me) is wary of because of it's high risk. there are other methods too.
again, it's all up to the trader if prefers to use sl or not. because only he knows what his risk tolerance is.
disclaimer. hedging and martingale is ONLY for experienced traders who can use them skilfully. any misuse will kill your account faster than anything.
As Above, So Below
  • #299
  • Jan 5, 2016 4:58pm Jan 5, 2016 4:58pm
Quoting tashkent
{quote} no stop loss trading is possible. there are many ways of doing it. usually price comes back to the entry point and using stop loss is just waste of money. however, there are times the trend is too strong and you are stuck with your losing position. in such cases, you can use specific methods to avoid loss. one method among many is hedging. if you are in a negative position, instead of bailing out with loss, you can hedge that trade and ride the trend in the opposite direction until market starts moving in the original position's direction....
Good response.
  • #300
  • Jan 5, 2016 5:54pm Jan 5, 2016 5:54pm
Quoting tradability
{quote} Safer more profitable and advisable? From those comments I can tell you have little clue about being a profitable trader hence lacking the understanding of what is a SL etc. If the market gaps your SL is worth diddly squat so it is no safer than having a no stop loss plus while brokers your your edge you are weak in the pool of money that's why they spike the price. But you already knew that right? I mean you're not that stupid not to know that yes?
I suspected you don't have much grey matter, now I know you don't have any education too. Bye
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