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  • #61
  • Aug 17, 2006 8:54pm Aug 17, 2006 8:54pm
Quoting nd1377
"If all will look at the first post and the name of the thread they will understand why I wrote what I wrote. Somebody is asking for a good news trading broker. I wanted to share my experience that I had with MB Trading so others will see what they are like if they decide to trade with them. I am not bashing MB Trading but writing about my direct experience with them.

Thank you for correcting my GENIOUS post. I did that for a reason."
nd1377,

#1) I don't believe that I was responding to you in any way.

#2) The trader I quoted made an excellent point, and although he was responding to you I was not.

#3) Many, and I mean many so-called traders want to blame everybody under the sun for their failures, If only my broker was better, If only, If only, blah blah blah. I didn't even take special note of your post.

#4 In any discussion of brokers I think that it is a mistake for anyone to recommend a broker to anyone else. My choice of broker has happened because of my OWN personal experience, my OWN trading style, and my OWN education.

#5 If you choose a broker because I tell you to, then shame on me first of all and then shame on you second of all.

Please don't be offended at what I am saying, but the conversations in this topic are all consistent with the original post. This is all educational. The views stated can all be assimilated by those willing to learn.

And again I will state, for information only, I use FXsol, and I trade the news reports successfully.

DC
"There is MORE Happiness in giving than receiving"
  • #62
  • Aug 17, 2006 9:57pm Aug 17, 2006 9:57pm
Quoting nd1377
Thank you for correcting my GENIOUS post. I did that for a reason.
Reason? Methinks... rubbish, boulderdash!!!
  • #63
  • Aug 18, 2006 9:35am Aug 18, 2006 9:35am
Quoting nd1377
I know, I was just trying to show others my experience with MB Trading. Some people on here claim ECNs are the better route to go, but sometimes it is not. I am not a news trader, but a hybrid trader. Trading the news now may be profitable, but the days of the whipsaw could be coming for news traders.
FYI, MBTrading doesn't actually consider themselves a true ECN since they're dealing with mini-lots (which means the price feeds are from different banks, but they do order matching internally and price discovery).

They actually refer to themselves as an ECN model platform, meaning they follow the basic ECN model except they don't just pass through orders (because they deal with mini lots). You can ask them specifically why they don't consider themselves a true ECN.

True ECNs like CoesFX actually do direct pass-thru to various liquidity providers...which is another reason you can only trade standard lots on their ECN platform. They do trade minis, but...they do that through a secondary provider which does the order matching (and I believe actually has a dealing desk)...SO...MBTrading may not be giving us the best possible liquidity.
  • #64
  • Aug 18, 2006 9:50am Aug 18, 2006 9:50am
does anyone know what the CoesFX mini accounts are like for news?

Quoting mrmikal
True ECNs like CoesFX actually do direct pass-thru to various liquidity providers...which is another reason you can only trade standard lots on their ECN platform. They do trade minis, but...they do that through a secondary provider which does the order matching
  • #65
  • Aug 18, 2006 11:04am Aug 18, 2006 11:04am
Quoting mrmikal
FYI, MBTrading doesn't actually consider themselves a true ECN since they're dealing with mini-lots (which means the price feeds are from different banks, but they do order matching internally and price discovery).

They actually refer to themselves as an ECN model platform, meaning they follow the basic ECN model except they don't just pass through orders (because they deal with mini lots). You can ask them specifically why they don't consider themselves a true ECN.

True ECNs like CoesFX actually do direct pass-thru to various liquidity providers...which is another reason you can only trade standard lots on their ECN platform. They do trade minis, but...they do that through a secondary provider which does the order matching (and I believe actually has a dealing desk)...SO...MBTrading may not be giving us the best possible liquidity.
You are wrong about that. MBT is true ECN. Orders go directly to banks. CoesFX if you notice compare spreads on demo vs live....make your own determination.
  • #66
  • Aug 18, 2006 11:13am Aug 18, 2006 11:13am
Quoting MoneyMa$ter
...Selah.
First time i've seen that one used on a forum. One of my favorite "periods" in conversations: Stop and think upon that. To Ponder.

Each time i get to the charts i take a nice deep breath and get in that mind set.
: )
  • #67
  • Aug 18, 2006 11:26am Aug 18, 2006 11:26am
Sometimes i will trade the news with Bloomberg TV on another PC next to my tradstation and have been filled no problem w/FX Sol so far. Just plain ol market orders within the first minute after bloomberg states the results.

...but my Q turns now to what took place today at 15:00 C.E.T. this morning on the EUR/USD and others. Quite a drop in USD vs the others. Was there some non-listed news release? What eye-saw ; ) was a nice pin/doji on the 5m off the 1.2780 ish mark and took that as a possible entry setup and got in when as price passed 1.2800 with no problem.
I also remember being in a live-trainig situation during the London Subway disaster and got filled immedeately and rode it down for about 300 pips or so if my memory serves me?...

...continued...seems to be quite a bit of intentional human factoring/manipulating during the "Listed" news to cover their back sides, verses those times when stuff-just-happens and it catches the brokers off guard and they can't stop the headlong rush?

Just rambling after closing all my trades for the week.

Blessings to all over the weekend.
Thom
  • #68
  • Aug 18, 2006 11:57am Aug 18, 2006 11:57am
Quoting zarni
You are wrong about that. MBT is true ECN. Orders go directly to banks. CoesFX if you notice compare spreads on demo vs live....make your own determination.
Zarni,

This conversation is DIRECTLY from chatting with MBT:

Michael: so, we need to know if you guys are officially classifying yourself as a true ECN
Chris Field: let me ask someone
Chris Field: PLEASE HOLD
Michael: thanks
Chris Field: ok
Michael: thanks Chris...what's the verdict?
Chris Field: We are a FCM that uses Technology of a ECN
Chris Field: So We do NOT classify ourself as a ECN
Chris Field: that answer is straight from the big Guy
Chris Field: Futures Commission Merchant

*shrugs*

don't know what to tell you, bro.

As far as CoesFX...demo versus live? what's the relevance?
  • #69
  • Aug 20, 2006 7:36am Aug 20, 2006 7:36am
Jaw Hi..

Taking up your point about connection speed.. I don't know if it could be a significant issue in trading fast moving markets because the times are really very small (milliseconds)
But people can check the latency (delay) on their own connection ...using a small utility called "trace". and "run a trace" on your brokers server. It's.been around for yonks and lots of versions about.
I'm sure you knew this but just in case anyone else is interested...

C
  • #70
  • Aug 20, 2006 2:27pm Aug 20, 2006 2:27pm
yeah. i think that a lot of problems people have with orders is their connection.
  • #71
  • Aug 20, 2006 4:55pm Aug 20, 2006 4:55pm
Quoting cliffedwards
Jaw Hi..

Taking up your point about connection speed.. I don't know if it could be a significant issue in trading fast moving markets because the times are really very small (milliseconds)
But people can check the latency (delay) on their own connection ...using a small utility called "trace". and "run a trace" on your brokers server. It's.been around for yonks and lots of versions about.
I'm sure you knew this but just in case anyone else is interested...

C
MT notifies you if you lose connection to your broker. It is not connection. Bandwidth requirements are small for MT4 and latency would never have such an impact. 99% is broker fault.
  • #72
  • Edited 2:38pm Aug 22, 2006 2:14pm | Edited 2:38pm
Quoting annie_82
Hello

I'm searching for a good News trading broker, someone can help me ?
if I want to trade on news, I must use an ECN broker. Isn't it ?

How about MBTrading , Oanda, HotSpotFX, etc. Are they good for news trading and don't have a slippage ?

example:
1 minute before the volatile news happens, I'm usually put my order on limit +10 and -10 , and when the news is happen, my order isn't execute at the point that I want, but it is jump to +20 (if go up) or -20 if the price is go down, So I didn't get a maximum profit as I want (sometimes I'm getting loss because of this slippage), so I don't want like that.

I'm heard that if I'm using an ECN Broker this case will not happen, is it true ?

please help me about the good news trading broker that have no slippage and also instant execution.

I have heard that MBTrading have this feature, But I haven't try it. So I need your comments

Sorry, if this questions may be already mentioned on this forum, i'm a newbie on this forum, So I don't know.

thank you


Annie
the reason u get 20 instead of 10 could be the spread...even though limit orders are supposed include the spread and only fill you at prices = to or better (for you) than the ones qouted
  • #73
  • Aug 22, 2006 4:21pm Aug 22, 2006 4:21pm
Quoting annie_82
Hello

I'm searching for a good News trading broker, someone can help me ?
if I want to trade on news, I must use an ECN broker. Isn't it ?

How about MBTrading , Oanda, HotSpotFX, etc. Are they good for news trading and don't have a slippage ?

example:
1 minute before the volatile news happens, I'm usually put my order on limit +10 and -10 , and when the news is happen, my order isn't execute at the point that I want, but it is jump to +20 (if go up) or -20 if the price is go down, So I didn't get a maximum profit as I want (sometimes I'm getting loss because of this slippage), so I don't want like that.

I'm heard that if I'm using an ECN Broker this case will not happen, is it true ?

please help me about the good news trading broker that have no slippage and also instant execution.

I have heard that MBTrading have this feature, But I haven't try it. So I need your comments

Sorry, if this questions may be already mentioned on this forum, i'm a newbie on this forum, So I don't know.

thank you


Annie
Let me apologise in advanced if you take the following as condescending in any way.

First of all, all you so-called news traders clamouring for the perfect broker that will guarantee your entries and exits ned to understand how the market works. I'll take a properly regulated market like futures. While the details may vary from exchange to exchange but the principles are the same.

In a market you have ppl bidding and offering at different prices. The point at which there's an equilibrium is what you'll see as the normal quote. Now let's assume that you have a figure coming out (we'll ignore the drop in liquidity for now) and the net result is that this price should now be higher. 2 things will potentially happen that will cause the price to 'gap-up' so to speak:
1. Traders will pull their offers
2. Traders will push thorugh new bids at a higher price

Either one of these will cause a gap. If only 1. happens, you'll just see an increase in spread. If 2 or 1&2 happens then you'll see a gap with a constant (more or less) spread.

Now, if we take forex, if you're dealing interbank, I can guarantee that you will not be able to even think about getting an order filled beoffe the price moves because the banks will have pulled their old bids/offers and started to quote new prices to reflect the new information.

However, with a retail broker, you can successfully hit their quotes for a number of reasons which could include broker automated matching systems or slow prices etc. OF course most of you must realise that retail brokers do not make money just off the spread but match client orders internally or simply take the other side of the trade. IF the majority (in terms of $ value) of your clients loses money, it would just make common sense to not bother doing anything and just let the money roll in.

So, when retail traders stumble upon a way of eating into their profits they have to do something about it. Just like guaranteed stops, tradeable and tight quotes around news is something the brokers will counter in some form or another and I don't feel it's unfair on the clients at all. You try doing this on an ecn and you'll either rarely get any fills (do you really think you'll be faster than ppl with dedicated lease lines?) or suffer massive slippage.

I've no love for retail brokers as they will still continue to play plenty of other tricks I wish you all well in hitting them over figures. Just don't be surprised if you get slipped, stops hits and trades amended cos in the end .... you can't really complain as you're not trading in the real forex market.
  • #74
  • Aug 22, 2006 4:32pm Aug 22, 2006 4:32pm
Quoting sccz97
Let me apologise in advanced if you take the following as condescending in any way.

First of all, all you so-called news traders clamouring for the perfect broker that will guarantee your entries and exits ned to understand how the market works. I'll take a properly regulated market like futures. While the details may vary from exchange to exchange but the principles are the same.

In a market you have ppl bidding and offering at different prices. The point at which there's an equilibrium is what you'll see as the normal quote. Now let's assume that you have a figure coming out (we'll ignore the drop in liquidity for now) and the net result is that this price should now be higher. 2 things will potentially happen that will cause the price to 'gap-up' so to speak:
1. Traders will pull their offers
2. Traders will push thorugh new bids at a higher price

Either one of these will cause a gap. If only 1. happens, you'll just see an increase in spread. If 2 or 1&2 happens then you'll see a gap with a constant (more or less) spread.

Now, if we take forex, if you're dealing interbank, I can guarantee that you will not be able to even think about getting an order filled beoffe the price moves because the banks will have pulled their old bids/offers and started to quote new prices to reflect the new information.

However, with a retail broker, you can successfully hit their quotes for a number of reasons which could include broker automated matching systems or slow prices etc. OF course most of you must realise that retail brokers do not make money just off the spread but match client orders internally or simply take the other side of the trade. IF the majority (in terms of $ value) of your clients loses money, it would just make common sense to not bother doing anything and just let the money roll in.

So, when retail traders stumble upon a way of eating into their profits they have to do something about it. Just like guaranteed stops, tradeable and tight quotes around news is something the brokers will counter in some form or another and I don't feel it's unfair on the clients at all. You try doing this on an ecn and you'll either rarely get any fills (do you really think you'll be faster than ppl with dedicated lease lines?) or suffer massive slippage.

I've no love for retail brokers as they will still continue to play plenty of other tricks I wish you all well in hitting them over figures. Just don't be surprised if you get slipped, stops hits and trades amended cos in the end .... you can't really complain as you're not trading in the real forex market.
I agree with pretty much everything you say except the ecn part. First off spreads with ecns during news are tightest and secondly if it is a proper ecn what you see is what you get for quotes - unless your hand eye coordination is slow.... Secondly leased lines or cable/dsl does not matter really for stuff like this (believe me I am a network engineer in my former profession so i know
otherwise you are spot on...
  • #75
  • Aug 22, 2006 4:33pm Aug 22, 2006 4:33pm
I personally do not trade the news but I do take it into account when I am in a trade or going to enter one. The news does effect the market and can even change the trend. One fella I know who does it mostly uses Oanda and to my knowledge has had no slippage. They do widen the spread up to 15 pips but he is very selective on which news he trades and what information he uses either to enter or not enter the trade. He is testing out hotspotFx now too, it seems from what he is saying he did have a it slip on him.

Tom
  • #76
  • Aug 22, 2006 5:10pm Aug 22, 2006 5:10pm
Quoting zarni
I agree with pretty much everything you say except the ecn part. First off spreads with ecns during news are tightest and secondly if it is a proper ecn what you see is what you get for quotes - unless your hand eye coordination is slow.... Secondly leased lines or cable/dsl does not matter really for stuff like this (believe me I am a network engineer in my former profession so i know
otherwise you are spot on...
I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with what you disagreed on. Agreed, spreads on bigger ecn's will stay tight around most figures but if you think that:
1. you'll have more than 5-10m (talking about top level of the book on eur$) to hit compared to the usual 20-30m
2: you're going to get your order into the queue before someone else who does this profesionally on a prop desk or for a fund
then please keep trying. There will always be some poor trader who accidentally hits the wrong button and posts a bid instead of an offer that you can match.

You may have been a former network engineer but latency issues is an area which banks are taking very seriously indeed. I trade from london and the ping time to my broker (across the pond) on average is 85ms. A friend of mine trading in new york has an avg ping time of 54ms and consistently gets better fill prices.
  • #77
  • Aug 22, 2006 5:11pm Aug 22, 2006 5:11pm
Quoting tomhen
He is testing out hotspotFx now too, it seems from what he is saying he did have a it slip on him.

Tom
welcome to a proper forex market with banks as your counterparties.
  • #78
  • Aug 22, 2006 7:23pm Aug 22, 2006 7:23pm
Quoting sccz97
I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with what you disagreed on. Agreed, spreads on bigger ecn's will stay tight around most figures but if you think that:
1. you'll have more than 5-10m (talking about top level of the book on eur$) to hit compared to the usual 20-30m
2: you're going to get your order into the queue before someone else who does this profesionally on a prop desk or for a fund
then please keep trying. There will always be some poor trader who accidentally hits the wrong button and posts a bid instead of an offer that you can match.

You may have been a former network engineer but latency issues is an area which banks are taking very seriously indeed. I trade from london and the ping time to my broker (across the pond) on average is 85ms. A friend of mine trading in new york has an avg ping time of 54ms and consistently gets better fill prices.

I will have to disagree with your disagreement
your original post talks about leased lines verses cable/dsl. Bandwidth does not have anything to do with latency.
You can have a T3 with higher latency than a 56 connection.
Secondly icmp is not a good method necessarily to judge latency. ISPs use QoS to prioritize certain prototocols. I will not get into details here as it's a forex forum however generalizing on leased lines vs subscriber is not necessarily the issue. The number of hops b/n you and your broker is more important than what service bandwidth you have.
And thirdly I am saying that even in your case it doesn't really matter that much. 20 milliseconds is negligable
  • #79
  • Aug 22, 2006 8:40pm Aug 22, 2006 8:40pm
Quoting zarni
20 milliseconds is negligable
even 1ms isn't negligable.
  • #80
  • Aug 22, 2006 8:50pm Aug 22, 2006 8:50pm
Quoting sccz97
even 1ms isn't negligable.
Human reaction time is about 220 milliseconds. 1/10th or thereabouts is negligible. There are more important factors to consider like what your news source is and how fast your interpret it. I consistently beat the big guys on news with very simple strategy and I trade across the pond (the server is not in the US).

Obviously you can split hairs all you want. But the bottom line is the bandwidth of the pipe doesn't have anything to do with latency.
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