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vsa with Malcolm

  • #27,281
  • Edited 7:26am Nov 25, 2015 6:40am | Edited 7:26am
Quoting TEB63
{quote} that is not a no demand bar its a hidden up thrust or even an inside bar
No demand, lack of demand whatever you want to call it, it was a SOW that I shorted. I don't consider a bar an UT or a hidden UT if it's high is within the range of the previous day. I want to see them up into new space above the previous candles, but hey that's just me.

Lowest volume in the last 5 bars, smallest range in the last 3 bars, closed at or below 50% of the days range all things showing me lack of buyers (demand).

Inside bar sure thing, all the better.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #27,282
  • Nov 25, 2015 7:46am Nov 25, 2015 7:46am
what you are saying is a simple up thrust
the point is a "hidden" up thrust is an Upthrust that is not into new area ie so it is hidden
AKA: "hidden" up thrust

also all - up thrust & or hidden up thrust do not say "no demand" rather it says "supply coming in"

cheers

etc
  • #27,283
  • Nov 25, 2015 7:50am Nov 25, 2015 7:50am
[quote=TEB63;8610186]what you are saying is a simple up thrust the point is a "hidden" up thrust is an Upthrust that is not into new area ie so it is hidden AKA: "hidden" up thrust also all - up thrust & or hidden up thrust do not say "no demand" rather it says "supply coming in"
(there is one exception an)

cheers
  • #27,284
  • Edited 8:13am Nov 25, 2015 7:55am | Edited 8:13am
Quoting TEB63
what you are saying is a simple up thrust the point is a "hidden" up thrust is an Upthrust that is not into new area ie so it is hidden AKA: "hidden" up thrust also all - up thrust & or hidden up thrust do not say "no demand" rather it says "supply coming in" cheers etc
Pretty terrible supply coming in on lowest volume in last 5 bars. I see that bar as nothing more than lack of buyers found, end of story. Again that is me, how I see the markets and how I trade. You don't have to agree.

You see the market they way you want and I will see it the way I want.

If you do not like my posts and they are not up to your standards because I'm not using your naming convention's then by all means go to my profile and click ignore so you don't have to read anymore of my posts because quite frankly I'm not here for a bar naming lesson.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #27,285
  • Nov 25, 2015 8:29am Nov 25, 2015 8:29am
Quoting pres78
{quote} Pretty terrible supply coming in on lowest volume in last 5 bars. I see that bar as nothing more than lack of buyers found, end of story. Again that is me, how I see the markets and how I trade. You don't have to agree. You see the market they way you want and I will see it the way I want. If you do not like my posts and they are not up to your standards because I'm not using your naming convention's then by all means go to my profile and click ignore so you don't have to read anymore of my posts because quite frankly I'm not here for a...

again the thread is vsa... lol
the amount of supply is not the 1st point.
of course it is the 2nd point

cheers
  • #27,286
  • Nov 25, 2015 8:38am Nov 25, 2015 8:38am
Quoting TEB63
also all - up thrust & or hidden up thrust do not say "no demand" rather it says "supply coming in"
Since you are so big on naming, definitions and pure VSA then I guess you would have to agree that what you say above would only apply on higher volume upthrusts because Master the Markets page 79 clearly states;

"The volume at point (a) is low. If low volume is present on any attempt to go up, this shows a
distinct lack of demand in the market. The traders who matter are not interested. This is an upthrust."

So as I said for me that bar, let's call it an UT for the sake of VSA, was on the lowest volume in the last 5 bars and therefore per MTM that is a sign of lack of demand.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #27,287
  • Nov 25, 2015 8:45am Nov 25, 2015 8:45am
What ever happened to Malcolm?
  • #27,288
  • Nov 25, 2015 8:47am Nov 25, 2015 8:47am
Quoting Compulsive
What ever happened to Malcolm?
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...99#post6673699
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #27,289
  • Nov 25, 2015 8:50am Nov 25, 2015 8:50am
Quoting pres78
{quote} http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...99#post6673699
Yeah I saw that, but other than Dubai and still looking at trades...he just disappeared
  • #27,290
  • Nov 25, 2015 8:52am Nov 25, 2015 8:52am
Quoting Compulsive
{quote} Yeah I saw that, but other than Dubai and still looking at trades...he just disappeared
Too busy with his new life. He does still keep in touch (online and in person) with a couple of other previous posters Steve Gill and Dr G.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #27,291
  • Nov 25, 2015 9:40am Nov 25, 2015 9:40am
Quoting pres78
{quote} Since you are so big on naming, definitions and pure VSA then I guess you would have to agree that what you say above would only apply on higher volume upthrusts because Master the Markets page 79 clearly states; "The volume at point (a) is low. If low volume is present on any attempt to go up, this shows a distinct lack of demand in the market. The traders who matter are not interested. This is an upthrust." So as I said for me that bar, let's call it an UT for the sake of VSA, was on the lowest volume in the last 5 bars and therefore per...

do you really see the vol as low?
it is lower then the last two but it looks average to me
at any rate its an up thrust not a ND
and that is it for me
  • #27,292
  • Nov 25, 2015 10:12am Nov 25, 2015 10:12am
Although I am in the "names don't matter; it's what the volume/price relationship represents that matters" camp, I actually like some of the recent discussion.

For me, I think of an UpThrust as making a higher high than the previous bar, closing near its lows and closing Higher than the previous bar. A Hidden UpThrust would still be making a higher high than the previous bar and still closing near its lows, but it would be closing LOWER than the previous bar.

Weakness typically appears on UP bars. With a DOWN bar the weakness is hidden because we expect weakness to show up on an UP bar. And therefore unless we are specifically looking for it, it goes unnoticed(or remains hidden).
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #27,293
  • Nov 25, 2015 11:27am Nov 25, 2015 11:27am
Everyone stop fighting! I need your posts to continue so I can figure this stuff out, lol!

Regarding Malcolm, I did some excellent online stalking and saw that he's still in Dubai, got married 2.5 years ago, and has a toddler. His hands are full, lol!
  • #27,294
  • Nov 25, 2015 11:54am Nov 25, 2015 11:54am
Quoting Rinehart
Everyone stop fighting! I need your posts to continue so I can figure this stuff out, lol! Regarding Malcolm, I did some excellent online stalking and saw that he's still in Dubai, got married 2.5 years ago, and has a toddler. His hands are full, lol!
If I could offer a piece of advise.. There was a HiddenGap PDF file floating around of all of his posts (which I cant seem to find the post now so attached is a copy I saved).

But you might want to think about first reading that document to figure VSA out.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf HiddenGaps Posts.pdf   7.9 MB | 1,323 downloads
  • #27,295
  • Nov 25, 2015 3:56pm Nov 25, 2015 3:56pm
Charts were kind of strange today, maybe an early profit taking because of the US holiday?
Any tips what went wrong with this trade?

Market was treding down, I didn't see any SOS in the background. The rally after yesterday's selloff was just as weak as the other rallies. I shorted the marked UT after its close back below the resistance. I see the price made a little bit higher low before, but volume wasn't that significant. Also the UT showed very high volume, I thought selling swamped the buying, from above the resistance, and also from the trendline.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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I actually shorted on the close of this candle:

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Thanks for the help.
Price and volume reveals everything. The market moves on supply and demand.
  • #27,296
  • Nov 25, 2015 5:46pm Nov 25, 2015 5:46pm
Quoting Darastonius
Charts were kind of strange today, maybe an early profit taking because of the US holiday? Any tips what went wrong with this trade? Market was trending down, I didn't see any SOS in the background. The rally after yesterday's selloff was just as weak as the other rallies. I shorted the marked UT after its close back below the resistance. I see the price made a little bit higher low before, but volume wasn't that significant. Also the UT showed very high volume, I thought selling swamped the buying, from above the resistance, and also from the trend...
When that 15 minute candle closed we were above the high (bar actually closed above the high) of yesterday's highest volume 1 hour zone. I personally would never short from there. We headed down, found support at the mid point, back up and a NS into the high and then a 2BR off the high. Those were signs to get long, or in your case a chance to get out of your short.

Either entry could have had a SL just below 50% as we had seen that level tested and held already.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #27,297
  • Nov 25, 2015 10:34pm Nov 25, 2015 10:34pm
Quoting Darastonius
Market was treding down, I didn't see any SOS in the background. .

there was stopping volume in the background
The loss was not bad luck. It was bad Analysis - D.Einhorn
  • #27,298
  • Nov 26, 2015 12:13am Nov 26, 2015 12:13am
Quoting pres78
{quote} When that 15 minute candle closed we were above the high (bar actually closed above the high) of yesterday's highest volume 1 hour zone. I personally would never short from there. We headed down, found support at the mid point, back up and a NS into the high and then a 2BR off the high. Those were signs to get long, or in your case a chance to get out of your short. Either entry could have had a SL just below 50% as we had seen that level tested and held already. {image}
Hi Pres78,

Thanks so much for your explanation .... what is that on the pic on the left side .... it looks like for trading management, can you share it?
Or where can i download/buy it?

thanks in advance
Attached Image
  • #27,299
  • Edited 6:32am Nov 26, 2015 5:23am | Edited 6:32am
Quoting pres78
{quote} When that 15 minute candle closed...
Thanks for the help. While backtesting I found these kind of setups really good, when you mark the H1 HV zones, and try to take setups from them. Until now I tried to pick setups from their edges, like NS/ND setups in trend direction when the HV zone gets retested, or UTs/springs into them from outside, then rejection.

But I noticed from reading this thread, that there are possibilities in them around their 50 fib, I heard this from other sources too.

So the question is, do you watch the 50 fib inside them as a support/resistance? Like if price does its thing below the 50 fib, rejects the 50 as resistance, upthrust above then back below the 50 fib, etc. so technically these are valid short setups? Also the same thing with above the 50 fib, like springs, support, etc.? Is there like an order to it, like marking the H1 first, look for trend direction, test of the 50 fib s/r, then ND/NS or upthrust/spring, etc.?

Thanks for the help in advance. I try to understand these, because although I studied VSA stuff and classic Wyckoff a lot, these weren't mentioned, but the backtest shows incredible results.
Price and volume reveals everything. The market moves on supply and demand.
  • #27,300
  • Edited 8:18am Nov 26, 2015 7:46am | Edited 8:18am
Quoting dogol
{quote} Hi Pres78, Thanks so much for your explanation .... what is that on the pic on the left side .... it looks like for trading management, can you share it? Or where can i download/buy it? thanks in advance {image}
That is a risk based lot size trade entry / trade management EA that I wrote for myself as nothing else did exactly what I wanted for trade management options with respect to trailing, BE, close half etc... or if they did they were far too complicated.

That said it's built by me for the way I trade so it's not something I am willing to give away or even sell (plus I don't want the risk of it not working right for someone on a trade).

Sorry.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
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