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  • #781
  • Oct 28, 2015 4:47pm Oct 28, 2015 4:47pm
Quoting Mevo
{quote} Please don't bring this propaganda here. Oanda HALTED all quotes and trading on all CHF pairs for more than 1 hour. "During the Swiss currency crisis, we did not re-quote or amend any CHF client trades": Of course you didn't, no trade could be placed, no position could be closed ! You reactivated the quotes when the CHF was at the top and margin called everybody there.
Hi Mevo,

To clarify for you, "During the Swiss currency crisis, we did not re-quote or amend any CHF client trades" means that traders who placed trades as the SNB event initiated, were executed at the price they saw, even though we could not get that price from our liquidity providers as no pricing was being offered. Trading was halted very shortly afterwards, as it was for all brokers.

Some brokers will re-quote you to the price that they were actually able to deal on with their liquidity providers, and not the price that was shown. This is known as a re-quote. In this case, if we re-quoted in this situation, the amended fill would have been at the same price that our LP's gave us. However, we honoured the pricing that the traders got in at, and did not re-quote or amend any CHF client trades.

A few posts from members here in this thread do explain this as well.

I should also point out that this situation does outline some of the various risks that are associated with FX trading, and trading in general. It is a good idea in today's market environment to take extra caution as the market conditions dictate.

I do apologize for any miscommunication here.

Cheers,
Disclaimer: Leveraged trading is high risk. Losses could exceed investment.
  • #782
  • Edited 4:53pm Oct 28, 2015 4:48pm | Edited 4:53pm
Quoting igeurchfloss
{quote} Hi...can you provide your price and volume feeds from 09.30 to 09.35?
Hi Igeurchfloss,

That is information that is not readily available to me, though I will inquire with the right people for that info, if it is available.

Cheers,
Disclaimer: Leveraged trading is high risk. Losses could exceed investment.
  • #783
  • Oct 29, 2015 6:57am Oct 29, 2015 6:57am
Quoting OANDARep
Trading was halted very shortly afterwards, as it was for all brokers.
Maybe you believe what you say, but this is NOT true at all.
Trading continued at Currenex all the time. EBS, which is seen as the reference in Fx pricing came several times forward to say there were bids and asks on CHF pairs on their platform ALL THE TIME. And as a customer of Interactive brokers, I can assure you, trading on all CHF pairs continued all the time without any gap or interruption. All serious brokers didn't halt anything.

Quoting OANDARep
our LP's gave us.
You are a MARKET MAKER. You are the counterpart of every customer's trades. Meaning all CHF that has been sold by customers has been sold TO YOU. If YOU decided to sell again that CHF to some partners (your "LPs") and you had problems with these patners, that's your responsability and you should see this with them. In no case does it allow you to defraud customers by halting quotes so that they take a HUGE loss that YOU 100% inflicted them by preventing them to be able to exit their trades.

You can't blame "liquidity" or "liquidity providers" as a market maker. You ARE the liquidity. On top of that it's even untrue as there was liquidity, but it's not even the problem.

Quoting OANDARep
However, we honoured the pricing that the traders got in at, and did not re-quote or amend any CHF client trades.
Sure, knowing that during more than 1 hour, anyone was unable to get in or especially OUT with you. It's pretty easy to honor pricing of trades that couldn't take place. To be fair, you did well before the halt, I admit that. The first few minutes, you have done a good and fair job, but the 1 hour that followed, no way.

Quoting OANDARep
I should also point out that this situation does outline some of the various risks that are associated with FX trading
And I should also point out the risks of doing business with a dishonest market maker like Oanda (i's right you're not alone in this case) which brags afterwards by correctly choosing its wording.
  • #784
  • Oct 29, 2015 7:22am Oct 29, 2015 7:22am
Quoting Mevo
{quote} Maybe you believe what you say, but this is NOT true at all. Trading continued at Currenex all the time. EBS, which is seen as the reference in Fx pricing came several times forward to say there were bids and asks on CHF pairs on their platform ALL THE TIME. And as a customer of Interactive brokers, I can assure you, trading on all CHF pairs continued all the time without any gap or interruption. All serious brokers didn't halt anything. {quote} You are a MARKET MAKER. You are the counterpart of every customer's trades. Meaning all CHF that...
Mevo has a pretty good argument concerning your 'brokerage' mr OnadaRep. Cant wait for your reply.
FF = Forex Faggots
  • #785
  • Oct 29, 2015 7:36am Oct 29, 2015 7:36am
They are very strong arguments indeed. They apply to almost all spread betting firms that are now chasing clients for the negative balances caused.

How can a firm act as principal (market maker) when it suits, yet when sh1t hits the fan turn in to an agency broker, and in the words of the IG Group Investor relations guys...."we are merely a conduit between clients and liquidity providers".

The industry regulations stink, and I will put a stop to this. CMC just lost the FOS case, IG got away with it very lightly and SAXO is still to come. In any case, the IG situation is not over as all clients will appeal. For FOS to agree IG front-ran client unwind orders, which is a clear breach of FCA rules, it's a joke to then get a reprice to 1.0249.

URGENT REQUEST: Please if anyone can provide price/volume data for the first five mins of the event, it would be a great help to many. Please pvt msg me and I will pass on my email. Thanks in advance.
  • #786
  • Oct 29, 2015 3:10pm Oct 29, 2015 3:10pm
Quoting igeurchfloss
Please pvt msg me and I will pass on my email. Thanks in advance.
I'm going to send you a PM.

And I have an important question:
For example, I cover my negative account balance (in order to avoid the legal action)
Few month later the Financial Supervisory Authority investigates the forex broker, and states that my stop order would have been filled.

a) In this case, does the broker have to give the money back to me without curt action?

b) Or if I pay, does it mean that I agreed the negative account balance? Will I lose that money forever, once I paid?
  • #787
  • Oct 30, 2015 8:55am Oct 30, 2015 8:55am
Kinda makes sense to me, if the broker is offering dma execution. Why would the banks be happy to cover the millions of negative balances for trades? If its $50, then I cant see the broker chasing it
  • #788
  • Oct 30, 2015 9:43am Oct 30, 2015 9:43am
Quoting Mevo
{quote} Maybe you believe what you say, but this is NOT true at all. Trading continued at Currenex all the time. EBS, which is seen as the reference in Fx pricing came several times forward to say there were bids and asks on CHF pairs on their platform ALL THE TIME. And as a customer of Interactive brokers, I can assure you, trading on all CHF pairs continued all the time without any gap or interruption. All serious brokers didn't halt anything. {quote} You are a MARKET MAKER. You are the counterpart of every customer's trades. Meaning all CHF that...
Hi Mevo,

All market makers do not operate in the same manner. It is true that we are a market maker, but we of course do have liquidity providers. You can get some insight into how we operate here: http://fxtrade.oanda.com/why/settlement

Intermittent outages, and one sided pricing was happening with some of the feeds that you mentioned, to which if you do a little searching, you can find the info on that. You also have to understand that like most financial companies, we must manage risk and assess positions when things like this happen, as any prudent business should do.

Though it's a different market, the stock markets do halt trading at times when they need. And the futures markets will also have limit up and limit down days. So to assume that there is nefarious intent all the time is a little misleading. Do you know what a specialist is?

To avoid any further misunderstandings, why not give me a ring on my direct line, and I can clear up some of these concerns for you? 1877 626 3239 ext 111309

Happy Friday!
Disclaimer: Leveraged trading is high risk. Losses could exceed investment.
  • #789
  • Oct 30, 2015 2:36pm Oct 30, 2015 2:36pm
OandaRep,

I'm not arguing that you didn't/don't have LPs, maybe you have. Or maybe you are a 100% market maker taking all the risks. That's absolutely not the issue. It's your choice, and Oanda is free to operate the way they want, not to defraud customers.

"Intermittent outages" happened at Currenex only. It was a bad example. EBS and interactive brokers for sure had quotes and bid/ask ALL THE TIME, but again, it's not the problem. You chose to "halt" trading for more than 1 hour. And you especially conveniently chose to start again when xxx/CHF pairs where at the bottom.

"we must manage risk and assess positions when things like this happen". Meaning: you must choose to defraud the customers to cover your losses. No, that's not an acceptable thing to do. A "prudent business" would have done something before the event: Buy some options to cover the risk, reduce the leverage, etc ... Not engage in FRAUD when the event happened and you thought: Better the customers than us.

Halt on exchanges are far shorter, AND people loose against other market participants. Here, you did something so that YOU get all that is "lost" by your customers. Of course there is no " nefarious intent all the time", but there is very clearly one here ! Especially seen what your order book published on your website looked like on the USD/CHF pair: A lot of customers with limit buy orders (+ locking in all the EUR/CHF customers with long positions)

I'm not sure I know what a specialist is, what is it ?

Happy Friday to you to !
  • #790
  • Oct 31, 2015 3:46am Oct 31, 2015 3:46am
Quoting Mevo
"Intermittent outages" happened at Currenex only. It was a bad example.


Are you sure about this ?
is there a conspiracy between dishonest Brokers/lp's and Currenex, OR, it was all Currenex fault and they won't admit it, maybe because they're still using it ??
  • #791
  • Oct 31, 2015 7:32am Oct 31, 2015 7:32am
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} Are you sure about this ? is there a conspiracy between dishonest Brokers/lp's and Currenex, OR, it was all Currenex fault and they won't admit it, maybe because they're still using it ??
What are you talking about ???!!!????
Currenex is an exchange, not a market maker.
When I was saying "only", it was in reference of my previous post in which I was talking of Currenex, IB and EBS. So, it was the "only" one between the 3, not among ALL brokers of course. And there have been gaps on Currenex (not that big), but still quotes all the way down (except the gaps between). It was a "normal" market, maybe without (some) liquidity providers, but with market participants still transacting between them.
  • #792
  • Oct 31, 2015 7:37am Oct 31, 2015 7:37am
Quoting Mevo
{quote} What are you talking about ???!!!???? Currenex is an exchange, not a market maker. When I was saying "only", it was in reference of my previous post in which I was talking of Currenex, IB and EBS. So, it was the "only" one between the 3, not among ALL brokers of course. And there have been gaps on Currenex (not that big), but still quotes all the way down (except the gaps between). It was a "normal" market, maybe without (some) liquidity providers, but with market participants still transacting between them.
Sorry, but what YOU are talking about ?

Currenex is a software , that brokers use to connect to their LP's.
  • #793
  • Oct 31, 2015 8:41am Oct 31, 2015 8:41am
Quoting HeyYou
Currenex is a software , that brokers use to connect to their LP's.
Currenex is usually referred to as a "platform". It is indeed a software, but it works like an exchange: All trades entered by anyone on currenex are visible by all the other currenex users and they can transact between them. Some of these users are indeed brokers who use it as a liquidity source. There are also a lot of financial institutions providing liquidity there. I'm talking of the "real" currenex, with all users/LPs who are on it, not of some Currenex white labels (when the software is used by some brokers with custom LPs)

Please tell me you're not here to sink my previous posts about OANDA by posting a lot of useless stuff so that other users less see the posts about OANDA's BEHAVIOUR during the CHF event.

If you want to discuss about Currenex, or other stuff unrelated to this thread subject, please go in the appropriate thread or start a new one (or PM me if you want)
  • #794
  • Edited 9:21am Oct 31, 2015 9:07am | Edited 9:21am
Quoting Mevo
{quote} Currenex is usually referred to as a "platform". It is indeed a software, but it works like an exchange: All trades entered by anyone on currenex are visible by all the other currenex users and they can transact between them. Some of these users are indeed brokers who use it as a liquidity source. There are also a lot of financial institutions providing liquidity there. I'm talking of the "real" currenex, with all users/LPs who are on it, not of some Currenex white labels (when the software is used by some brokers with custom LPs)...



no what they do is hosting the platform and rent it, no liquidity there.




Btw I was actually supporting you , if the problem was with currenex servers , then the brokers that were using it should admit it.
  • #795
  • Oct 31, 2015 9:55am Oct 31, 2015 9:55am
HeyYou,

I answered in "What is Currenex?" thread:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...24#post8568724
  • #796
  • Nov 1, 2015 2:10pm Nov 1, 2015 2:10pm
Does anyone have any liquidity information other than Integrale and Gain Capital please?

Ideally it would be great to understand how the Financial Ombudsman managed to get clients priced back to their original levels (be it 1.19xx or 1.15xx) but at the same time FOS believe it is fine for IG clients to be repriced to 1.024x ?

It's crazy and does not make sense how there is such a different treatment applied to clients. Even the behaviour of brokers has been very different - there does not seem to be an accepted best standard of practice whatsoever.

IG for example have written off the negative balance in their balance sheet and their stock price is performing fine. Why then do they still continue to chase negative balances on this one-off situation? Why does a firm such as IG not understand that several stories in the press about clients actually filing for bankruptcy will do harm to their reputation, and encourage the regulators to really look in to this. Payday loans affected a lot of people but in no way did the firm actions lead clients to losses/harm of hundred of thousands of pounds each.
  • #797
  • Nov 2, 2015 1:07am Nov 2, 2015 1:07am
Honestly this is very scary thing to read, I mean I love Forex trading mainly because I can’t lose over a certain amount, so I don’t know how it be our fault? I mean if there is margin levels there than it’s supposed to stop the trade from going into negative and if it does not it’s broker’s fault, but this is where reading TOS is so vital before joining any company. I have got negative balance quite a few times with Octafx when doing news trading, but mostly the balance is set to zero and nothing else is needed from my side.
  • #798
  • Nov 2, 2015 9:08am Nov 2, 2015 9:08am
Quoting Fedricks
Honestly this is very scary thing to read, I mean I love Forex trading mainly because I cant lose over a certain amount, so I dont know how it be our fault? I mean if there is margin levels there than its supposed to stop the trade from going into negative and if it does not its brokers fault, but this is where reading TOS is so vital before joining any company. I have got negative balance quite a few times with Octafx when doing news trading, but mostly the balance is set to zero and nothing else is needed from my side.
How is it set to zero when you can have a negative balance?
  • #799
  • Nov 4, 2015 8:35pm Nov 4, 2015 8:35pm
Quoting timestamp
{quote} How is it set to zero when you can have a negative balance?
Just to keep it simple and short, it’s the broker that takes the minus, so that’s how it is set to zero.
  • #800
  • Nov 6, 2015 4:09am Nov 6, 2015 4:09am
Quoting Fedricks
{quote} Just to keep it simple and short, it’s the broker that takes the minus, so that’s how it is set to zero.
They pay to liquidity providers the negative amount to restitute trading account to zero. Or just correct digits if you were filled in house
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