The Trader's Academy - by Traders for Traders | Page 3 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Are you a trend trader or a counter-trend trader? 29 replies

Baby pips style academy for other financial markets? 6 replies

from retail trader to full-time trader 17 replies

Discipline Trader and Voice Trader EA/IND 16 replies

IkonFX Viking Trader or Pfgbest Viking Trader? 2 replies

Attachments: The Trader's Academy - by Traders for Traders
Exit Attachments

The Trader's Academy - by Traders for Traders

  • #41
  • Oct 15, 2015 6:02am Oct 15, 2015 6:02am
Three Tips For Mental Toughness:

1. Be aware of what is going on in your mind, body and feelings.

2. Know what trading action are important to take.

3. Commit to high value actions regardless of how you feel.



How The 5% Traders Are Winning The Game:

1. Selecting trades Properly.

2. Entering Trades Properly.

3. Monitoring The Trade.

4. Exiting The Trade.



Yomi.
Time always comes before price
  • #42
  • Oct 16, 2015 2:10am Oct 16, 2015 2:10am
The Path To Becoming A Master Trader:


1. Psychology = 85%.

2. Risk Management = 10%.

3. Strategy = 5%.



Yomi.
Time always comes before price
  • #43
  • Edited 9:43am Oct 16, 2015 9:32am | Edited 9:43am
Quoting fxrabbi
The Path To Becoming A Master Trader: 1. Psychology = 85%. 2. Risk Management = 10%. 3. Strategy = 5%. Yomi.
I would disagree with that a little bit Yomi, as important though psychology most definitely is, I think you hugely play down the importance of strategy. Having a strategy which works and that you fully understand, takes most traders many years to accomplish. You can have the best trading psychology in the world, but unless you have the detailed knowledge of the markets, this is going to count for nothing.

This is important because most people new to trading come into it thinking that they will have no problem with the psychological aspect, imagining that they will be mentally much stronger and disciplined than most people. I was a bit like that. Trading however will expose any weaknesses you may have very quickly, weaknesses that you probably didn't even know that you had. To think that all you need to do is do a few months of chart work and that you're going to be just fine with the psychological aspect, is a mistake many people fall into. Both the technical part of trading and the mental side are far far harder than anyone realizes. This is something a trader finds out when he or she starts putting their money on the line. If they are unprepared in any department, they will be losing it very quickly.

For me therefore, psychology and strategy are both 50%, with the risk management being part of your strategy.
  • #44
  • Oct 16, 2015 9:36am Oct 16, 2015 9:36am
Trading is 100% psychology. Your psychological makeup influences your attitude towards risk and that defines the strategy that you adopt. For most people, their trading system/method is a manifestation of all the feelings they do not wish to feel.
  • #45
  • Oct 16, 2015 9:46am Oct 16, 2015 9:46am
Quoting Atokys
Trading is 100% psychology. Your psychological makeup influences your attitude towards risk and that defines the strategy that you adopt. For most people, their trading system/method is a manifestation of all the feelings they do not wish to feel.
Well in that case, as long as I have the right mindset, I can go and beat Roger Federer at tennis even though I've only been playing the game for six months.
  • #46
  • Oct 16, 2015 9:50am Oct 16, 2015 9:50am
Quoting cat
{quote} Well in that case, as long as I have the right mindset, I can go and beat Roger Federer at tennis even though I've only been playing the game for six months.
Hmm ok.

Edit: Im still wondering what that analogy has to do with trading unless you consider trading a tennis ball between two players to be applicable to the craft.
  • #47
  • Oct 16, 2015 10:02am Oct 16, 2015 10:02am
learn all need, unite all variable, and luck will come
we don't predict, we only ride
  • #48
  • Oct 16, 2015 10:25am Oct 16, 2015 10:25am
Quoting Atokys
{quote} Hmm ok. Edit: Im still wondering what that analogy has to do with trading unless you consider trading a tennis ball between two players to be applicable to the craft.
He is referring to "aptitude." Or "Natural Talent."
Look at the population at large, a few have natural talent or aptitude for the sport ( or trading). Thus with more training they become great footballers or traders or artists or whatever. The masses trained similarly will be average players or traders or artists or whatever.
Both require a desire to succeed and much effort and time and practice to do so.

To simplify for you: Whether you have natural talent or not-hard work is still required. Talent separates the great achievers from the average.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #49
  • Oct 16, 2015 10:31am Oct 16, 2015 10:31am
Quoting Atokys
Trading is 100% psychology. Your psychological makeup influences your attitude towards risk and that defines the strategy that you adopt. For most people, their trading system/method is a manifestation of all the feelings they do not wish to feel.
Strategies are not adopted, like something you can take off the shelf, they are evolved as one learn about the market, and they go through many metamorphosis. Your risk tolerance should be defined by the amount of money you are willing to lose..

Anyway, thanks for your input, your observation is valid and interesting.
  • #50
  • Oct 16, 2015 10:34am Oct 16, 2015 10:34am
Quoting turnip15
Whether you have natural talent or not-hard work is still required.
I don't know where one starts and the other stops.
Quote
Talent separates the great achievers from the average.
Indeed. An average trader will not transform himself into a good trader because thats the kind of thing that only good traders do.
  • #51
  • Oct 16, 2015 10:54am Oct 16, 2015 10:54am
Quoting cat
{quote} Strategies are not adopted, like something you can take off the shelf, they are evolved as one learn about the market, and they go through many metamorphosis. Your risk tolerance should be defined by the amount of money you are willing to lose...
This is all true, but I would even go further to say that trading strategies are misunderstood. Strategies by themselves do not provide a calculable edge (as in professional gambling). What a person learns about the market is only ever a reflection of himself. Every system/method that is net profitable is just a variation of the same concept. Success comes when a trader accepts this and focuses inward.
  • #52
  • Oct 16, 2015 11:34am Oct 16, 2015 11:34am
Quoting Atokys
{quote} I don't know where one starts and the other stops. {quote} Indeed. An average trader will not transform himself into a good trader because thats the kind of thing that only good traders do.
Yes -people with an aptitude or talent towards, or for, trading.


I don't know where one starts and the other stops

What you know doesn't matter -the person with an aptitude or talent for trading etc will quickly out pace the "average" in a given activity. To an intelligent observer such variation will quickly become evident.

However, knowing all this will not make you a better trader but may help you to accept your place in the ability ranking and accept that some who strive less than you do seem to achieve more than many of their peers.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #53
  • Oct 16, 2015 11:50am Oct 16, 2015 11:50am
Quoting cat
{quote} I would disagree with that a little bit Yomi, as important though psychology most definitely is, I think you hugely play down the importance of strategy. Having a strategy which works and that you fully understand, takes most traders many years to accomplish. You can have the best trading psychology in the world, but unless you have the detailed knowledge of the markets, this is going to count for nothing. This is important because most people new to trading come into it thinking that they will have no problem with the psychological aspect,...

Sir, give two traders the same trading system to trade with, Sir, I bet with you, they will end up with two different results.


Thank you,
Yomi.
Time always comes before price
  • #54
  • Oct 16, 2015 11:53am Oct 16, 2015 11:53am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Yes -people with an aptitude or talent towards, or for, trading.
If you wanted to be a top sportsman you would have to have trained yourself for the role from a young age and also be endowed with the proper physique.

If you wish to be a good trader all you have to do is desire to be one.
Quote
What you know doesn't matter -the person with an aptitude or talent for trading etc will quickly out pace the "average" in a given activity. To an intelligent observer such variation will quickly become evident. However, knowing all this will not make you a better trader but may help you to accept your place in the ability ranking and accept that some who strive less than you do seem to achieve more than many of their peers.
You confuse the game of speculation with some kind of sporting activity. In trading, everybody gets what they want out of the market.
  • #55
  • Edited 8:08am Oct 17, 2015 5:37am | Edited 8:08am
Quoting Atokys
{quote} If you wanted to be a top sportsman you would have to have trained yourself for the role from a young age and also be endowed with the proper physique. If you wish to be a good trader all you have to do is desire to be one. {quote} You confuse the game of speculation with some kind of sporting activity. In trading, everybody gets what they want out of the market.
That's a well known cliche which grossly oversimplifies the nature not just of trading, but of life itself. No one person begins a career in trading without sincerely wanting to be successful at it. As is the way with any goal we set out to achieve, we will only be successful if we approach it with realistic expectations about how much work and commitment will be required to achieve those goals. The sporting analogy is a good one for trading, because in no profession will you ever reach your true potential without dedication and hard work, many thousands of hours of it, or just as long as it takes. This is not to say that provided we all do the same amount of work we will all reach the same level of excellence, quite obviously we won't, which is where natural talent comes into play. Years of practice and dedication will not necessarily produce a world class concert pianist, but it will produce a highly competent pianist performing at the peak of his or her own ability. Similarly, not every trader who spends years learning how to trade will become a millionaire, but provided they understand how the price moves and use strict money management criteria, they should at least be able to earn enough to provide themselves with a living.

I strongly believe that any person with average intelligence can become a successful trader provided they work hard enough and are singularly focused on the goal of achieving success. The psychology of trading comes last, when you have properly educated yourself about the mechanics of price action. Everyone who comes into trading does so for the same reason - to make money, but very few come into the business with time horizons and expectations that are realistic. The majority are looking for quick and easy money, and without exception, these people fail - they are the 95% you hear about. The 5% on the other hand know, perhaps not at first, but soon enough, that trading is a lot herder than it seems at the outset, and that to truly succeed, it is going to be a long haul, not months but years of trial and error before they get it right - with some it could be five years, others ten or fifteen. The winners in this game stick with it, they just don't give up.

That is the difference, that is what separates the big achievers in trading, and in life, from the rest, short cuts do not exist unless you win the lottery. The reason so many fail has got nothing to do with whether people are inherently talented enough or not, and everything to do with the fact that there are no degrees or apprenticeships required for trading, anyone with an internet connection can call themselves a trader from day one if they want to. Imagine the carnage if the same applied for becoming a doctor, a lawyer or a plumber! Thankfully in trading, the carnage does not go beyond the personal level.

Yes, you'll get what you want from the market, that is true, but only if that desire to achieve is matched by a the realism of what it will take to achieve it. As one's knowledge and confidence steadily increases, the psychological factor that we all have to overcome, will tend to take care of itself.
  • #56
  • Oct 17, 2015 5:46am Oct 17, 2015 5:46am
Quoting Atokys
{quote} If you wanted to be a top sportsman you would have to have trained yourself for the role from a young age and also be endowed with the proper physique. If you wish to be a good trader all you have to do is desire to be one. {quote} You confuse the game of speculation with some kind of sporting activity. In trading, everybody gets what they want out of the market.
I cannot break through your misconception of trading success. One last try -If you are talented at some activity then you have a big edge over those who are average but through hard work (note the hard work) have achieved average success. If not then all traders would be equally successful. But it sounds like you talk a lot about trading but have yet to trade.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #57
  • Oct 17, 2015 9:26am Oct 17, 2015 9:26am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} I cannot break through your misconception of trading success. One last try -If you are talented at some activity then you have a big edge over those who are average but through hard work (note the hard work) have achieved average success. If not then all traders would be equally successful. But it sounds like you talk a lot about trading but have yet to trade.
Oh, I thought this was going to be a civilized discussion.

The trading metaphor that you adopt is quite common among beginners who try to anchor their conception of trading to a familiar reference point (like competitive sports). The good news is that within your chosen personal metaphor; you are right. And you can continue to be right to your heart's content on your own. End of discussion, im out.
  • #58
  • Edited 10:14am Oct 17, 2015 9:55am | Edited 10:14am
Quoting cat
{quote} That's a well known cliche which grossly oversimplifies the nature not just of trading, but of life itself. No one person begins a career in trading without sincerely wanting to be successful at it. As is the way with any goal we set out to achieve, we will only be successful if we approach it with realistic expectations about how much work and commitment will be required to achieve those goals. The sporting analogy is a good one for trading, because in no profession will you ever reach your true potential without dedication and hard work,...
Well Cat, thats quite a post. I agree with a lot of what your have said and I think so do many others. We differ in our definitions. I define 'trading psychology' as all encompassing because trading has no 'muscle' aspect.

When people say that psychology is unimportant in trading they operate with the assumption that trading has a 'mechanical' aspect that can be trained and honed. This is a fair assumption and is a useful belief for many. My view is that there is no such thing. When people learn 'price action reading' and things in this vein they are just going through a process of adapting the nature of markets into something that they can accept psychologically. I am not demeaning anyone by saying this, in fact, I have great respect for many outstanding traders who have taken years of study to develop their system. But the fact that each trader ends up with a unique personalized approach makes me come to the conclusion that the mechanical aspect of trading execution is ultimately vacuous. The common denominator among the successes is something that transcends this.
Quote
That's a well known cliche which grossly oversimplifies the nature not just of trading
Win or lose, everybody gets what they want out of the market. I don't see how this is oversimplified or a cliche. It quite accurately characterizes the game of speculation which has no parallel.

Success is a directed systematic effort and the people who attain it follow the path faithfully. Excursions from this or unrealistic expectations are self-correcting through the process of losing money. The trader is personally responsible for the outcomes of his decisions, therefore, whether or not people understand or can accept it; everybody gets what they want out of the market.
  • #59
  • Oct 18, 2015 2:09am Oct 18, 2015 2:09am
I feel like delving further into your post today Cat.
Quoting cat
The sporting analogy is a good one for trading, because in no profession will you ever reach your true potential without dedication and hard work, many thousands of hours of it, or just as long as it takes.
How can it be a good analogy? Trading is nothing more than placing buy or sell orders with one's money to speculate on price. It is not a game of skill or wit. Sure, some may approach trading from the standpoint of outsmarting or outplaying the market but they are doing so metaphorically. Several top traders adopt similar mental states to top athletes but this itself is not necessary. A focused attitude works and so does a detached approach.

Cleaning toilets is more a profession than speculation. At least the former has an objective criteria for measuring efficacy. There is no standard for success in trading. Is the fund manager who makes 10% a year for his risk averse clients any less successful than the lone trader who makes spectacular returns at the cost of equally spectacular drawdowns in the interim? How about the traders who are net losers? Isn't their choice to continue to lose motivated by attempting to emulate a mistaken conception of what they assume successful trading to be about? In the end, everybody is successful in what they set their mind to and everybody gets what they want.
  • #60
  • Oct 18, 2015 8:01am Oct 18, 2015 8:01am
Quoting Atokys
I feel like delving further into your post today Cat. {quote} How can it be a good analogy? Trading is nothing more than placing buy or sell orders with one's money to speculate on price. It is not a game of skill or wit. Sure, some may approach trading from the standpoint of outsmarting or outplaying the market but they are doing so metaphorically....
A monkey can press a buy or sell button. To do so and consistently win more than you lose is not luck, it requires skill, knowledge, experience, and a good deal of wit. Trading, as with any skills based activity, can be mastered, has to be mastered if one is to succeed. Whether one uses a sporting analogy or any skills based activity, the outcome is the same - you have to learn your craft to succeed. There is no outsmarting the market involved in trading because to outsmart something or someone, that entity has to be trying to outsmart you in return and that obviously isn't the case with the market. The market is like the ocean, which although made up of single molecules of H2O, moves as a single mass driven by the moon's gravitational pull. Price will move regardless of whether any single individual retail trader buys or sells. To anticipate these movements and to time the entry into them requires great skill and a deep store of knowledge. True, on the surface all one has to do is click the mouse to enter the market, but the skill one needs to consistently do so in the right direction and at the right time goes way way deeper. It is everything that you say it is not.
0 traders viewing now