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Do You Know Any Millionaire or Multimillionaire Forex Traders?

  • #141
  • Sep 10, 2015 1:36pm Sep 10, 2015 1:36pm
Quoting TwFXtrader
Don't let people stop you nothing is impossible . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX9FSZJu448

Thanks so much for posting this video! It was very inspirational. It proves we can do just about anything if we are highly committed & motivated and put in whatever work it takes (and also have the right plan).

I watched the video someone posted of the backwards bicycle, but, honestly, I didn't get much out of it and have no idea why it has received so many views. However, the video of the guy that lost all that weight and was able to - after 15 yrs - overcome his disability to walk again unassisted ... that video was fantastic and inspirational. Watching this video makes it harder for the rest of us to make excuses in those times that we say "I can't do it".
"Dream big and dare to fail." - Norman Vaughan
  • #142
  • Sep 10, 2015 2:05pm Sep 10, 2015 2:05pm
Trading is 99% a battle with yourself.
The only system that will work is one designed by and for yourself.
  • #143
  • Sep 10, 2015 3:19pm Sep 10, 2015 3:19pm
Agreed. And 99% of retail traders lose that battle. There's a big difference between one or 2 lucky trades and being profitable consistently. Most retail traders will never be consistently profitable - it would be better for them to quit trading altogether.
  • #144
  • Sep 10, 2015 3:43pm Sep 10, 2015 3:43pm
Quoting gravitist
it would be better for them to quit trading altogether.
True... but what's the alternative?
Forex is a losers game.
  • #145
  • Sep 10, 2015 4:04pm Sep 10, 2015 4:04pm
Quoting Kahn88
{quote} Basically katroo summed up everything. Well said, mate. Right, I rarely post on FF except to check if there are any interesting articles/opinions to read by FX sites or when I am bored at work to be honest but I thought I will do so now after seeing naivety among people here when it comes to trading. Something about me, I started trading on my own then got hired as an institutional trader in a startup hedge fund. I must tell you that I used to think the same as you guys do that institutional traders have some sort of magic techniques to...
Kahn88 those are good points,

one thing crossed my mind though on which I want to comment: "There is also a misconception that institutional traders do not trade news. No, they do! But their risk is well managed (stop is well put) after carefully considering all the factors such as slippage."

This one is a very tricky topic. Of course, if you are on the retail side with a decent broker you probably can trade the news, put your stop loss etc. as your size is quite small for the market itself. You can even do this on the insti side most of the time - I mean, there is a huge amount of companies, prop shops, small hedge funds and risk takers who are relatively small (i.e. trading majors G10 FX with < 25-50mn tickets). Even a 50mn ticket for G10 FX at times like NFP release can be a challenge trust me, and the last thing you want to do is to place a stop for that amount with a bank. If you do it you will most likely get filled + slaughtered with the slippage, as the bank trader who has your stop order in his orderbook has to monitor it closely and do you a best execution on that order - it can actually be a very tough job for the trader to take care of the order book, plus right now all the banks are super competitive in FX and if you are their top customer they can't screw you up otherwise you stop doing business with them. That's why you can also leave a bank with some discretion on your stop order (i.e. bank trader has it in the orderbook but might not execute you on a first spike / price hit if he thinks price will move back, this can cost you additional small slippage if he is wrong). But back to the "trade the news" topic, the point is, when I need to trade EMFX (less liquid than g10) like USDZAR, USDMXN (which is what I focus on quite a lot) in 50mn, it can be a pure nightmare, and liquidity matters big time. This liquidity is even 10x lower during some news releases making it impossible to trade with the direction of the move after the news (unless you want to bid up the pair and buy at the top (reverse the analogy for selling)). What is many times possible (and what I do quite often) is to trade against the initial move (i.e. fading it) if it is in line with my macro / tactical market view and I want to get positioned for something. This doesn't work all the time, as you can just get a quick spike (liquidity drying up, b/o spread through the roof) where nothing has traded and quick reversal in few seconds - there is no way you could fill 50 bucks in there. That's why what you need is news / eco numbers which are away from the consensus and which cause a move which lasts for few minutes (even 1 minute is enough, then depending on how staffed and competitive banks are you can get a semi-decent b/o spread for 50m ticket) at least, where there is actually some trading going through the market. For example imagine an uptrend, you get news / eco release which are heavily against that uptrend, market spikes down big time (stops, fast money accounts cutting quickly etc.) - in such case you will find a short term equilibrium after that spike lower where you have some people still getting filled on their stops and other people buying the dip into the trend and fading the news - that's the moment when you generally get the liquidity for decent tickets as sell side traders are busy with customers trading both directions, which is easier for them to match this flow together and not getting heavy directional exposure. So yeah, you definitely can trade the news on the insti side, but there is just a bit more complexity coming into it I would say.
  • #146
  • Sep 10, 2015 6:00pm Sep 10, 2015 6:00pm
Quoting katrooo
{quote} Kahn88 those are good points, one thing crossed my mind though on which I want to comment: "There is also a misconception that institutional traders do not trade news. No, they do! But their risk is well managed (stop is well put) after carefully considering all the factors such as slippage." This one is a very tricky topic. Of course, if you are on the retail side with a decent broker you probably can trade the news, put your stop loss etc. as your size is quite small for the market itself. You can even do this on the insti side most of...
man, a lot of words. Proud of you !!! I stopped reading at 4th line
BullShit BearShit
  • #147
  • Sep 10, 2015 6:10pm Sep 10, 2015 6:10pm
Quoting bloodpoodle
Trading is 99% a battle with yourself.

And here's the 1% that's not. No doubt someone will deny this but also no doubt they can't provide a better explanation of how things work.

Assume there are only 2 traders and a market maker.

bid/ask 100/101 trd1 buys @ 100 or 101 (doesn't really matter, if you go near the spread you get done)
mm algo "uh oh I'm short now, need to find someone to buy from - and I'd rather buy low than high"
price starts to creep down
bid/ask 99/100
bid/ask 98/99
...
trd2 "damn looks like a fast down trend!"
bid/ask 60/61 trd2 sells at 60 or 61
mm "okay made cool 40 bux"
bid/ask 61/62
bid/ask 62/63
...
eventually
bid/ask 80/81 .. or thereabouts (mid point between the sell low trader and buy high trader)

mm's pl +~40, no positions
trd1 pl -20, 1 short
trd2 pl -20, 1 long

Now if 3rd trader comes along and sells, the price might move to bid/ask 90/91. Then trd4 comes to buy and price goes down to 85/86.

So you have 4 traders, all sitting with losses and market maker has profits.

Draw your own conclusions as to how much of this really is a battle with yourself.
  • #148
  • Sep 10, 2015 6:34pm Sep 10, 2015 6:34pm
Quoting gravitist
Agreed. And 99% of retail traders lose that battle. There's a big difference between one or 2 lucky trades and being profitable consistently. Most retail traders will never be consistently profitable - it would be better for them to quit trading altogether.
Hey gravitist,Although I do agree with you to an extent on the fact that most of the traders fail however that was harsh. I learned through trial and error then was hired by my hedge fund. So I would not say, "quit trading altogether". Keep up the hardwork and look for realistic returns with proper risk management. Bear in mind, we have a team of analysts working on our exposure and give us insights. You can do that by yourself with the use of excel and some VBA. I feel for you guys because I was a retail trader once too that is why I am telling you what I experienced. Just look for consistency in line with your system and strategy having good risk management.Good luck to you.
  • #149
  • Edited Sep 11, 2015 5:52am Sep 10, 2015 7:00pm | Edited Sep 11, 2015 5:52am
Quoting katrooo
{quote} Kahn88 those are good points, one thing crossed my mind though on which I want to comment: &quot;There is also a misconception that institutional traders do not trade news. No, they do! But their risk is well managed (stop is well put) after carefully considering all the factors such as slippage.&quot; This one is a very tricky topic. Of course, if you are on the retail side with a decent broker you probably can trade the news, put your stop loss etc. as your size is quite small for the market itself. You can even do this on the...
Very interesting post. And it was a matter of debate in our team as well. I would never trade retail with less than $20k and choose a "big" broker so that just filters out any bucket shops etc. Regarding news, we only trade G10 and never trade EM so I can't comment on that however the guys here enter at reasonable spreads not 1-2 minutes before when the spreads are just ridiculous and yes fading is very popular but it doesn't always work. One thing I strongly agree with we look at news release closely to check how was the number if it was significant or not. Most of the times our risk manager let us trade news after asking our stops (in pips) however he did not let us enter before ECB QE release because that was a major and big news release. Other times, he himself trades news and watches the numbers closely. We just emphasise a lot on our risk management. To give you an example one of our trainee traders whom I was helping out entered short before latest loonie rate statement release with 27 pips SL at 1.3268 since he's new I let him learn by trial and error. If you see candle went around 1.3259-1.326 but since his stop was ridiculous he got stopped out even though it did go his way in the end but due to spread he lost. That is a good example of poor risk management. Also, regarding trading NFP release yes it can be a nightmare but we have a minimum pips SL that we MUST follow. However, we have been told in advance that broker is under no obligation to execute your SL/TP at your price so yeah it is a gamble. And I raised this with my manager saying this is gambling, he said, "You all are risk adjusted gamblers" which is quite true actually. That's why you see such massive moves after news because big players are all trading but not necessarily with bad spreads. Before the news release, we have pin drop silence on our trading floor. But tell me what do you do and what do traders in your team do? Do you or your colleagues trade news considering the fact that you are also an institutional trader?
  • #150
  • Sep 10, 2015 11:46pm Sep 10, 2015 11:46pm
Quoting Ace_1
{quote} Thanks so much for posting this video! It was very inspirational. It proves we can do just about anything if we are highly committed & motivated and put in whatever work it takes (and also have the right plan). I watched the video someone posted of the backwards bicycle, but, honestly, I didn't get much out of it and have no idea why it has received so many views. However, the video of the guy that lost all that weight and was able to - after 15 yrs - overcome his disability to walk again unassisted ... that video was fantastic and inspirational....
  • #151
  • Sep 11, 2015 1:20am Sep 11, 2015 1:20am
''maybe sometimes people need to see someone do it so they can do it themselves.''
  • #152
  • Sep 11, 2015 2:49am Sep 11, 2015 2:49am
I believe thriving traders exist and its possible to be profitable, but by the time u hit this mark, you will have lost lots of K and humbled enough to brag
  • #153
  • Sep 11, 2015 2:50am Sep 11, 2015 2:50am
Quoting shellsnail
The game changes with time.
The game has always been the same because markets have always been the same; they are always changing.
  • #154
  • Sep 11, 2015 3:20am Sep 11, 2015 3:20am
Fact is: The people usually expect too much from their trading, they overtrade. Just collect 5-6 pips every day and turn off your station. Come back next day and repeat. Relax and enjoy the rest of your day, write a blog, take a walk, read, learn, whatever, but do not sit the whole day in front of your monitor.
  • #155
  • Sep 11, 2015 6:33am Sep 11, 2015 6:33am
Quoting Kahn88
{quote} Very interesting post. And it was a matter of debate in our team as well. I would never trade retail with less than $20k and choose a "big" broker so that just filters out any bucket shops etc. Regarding news, we only trade G10 and never trade EM so I can't comment on that however the guys here enter at reasonable spreads not 1-2 minutes before when the spreads are just ridiculous and yes fading is very popular but it doesn't always work. One thing I strongly agree with we look at news release closely to check how was the number if it was...
hi Kahn88,

yes, me and my colleagues trade the news sometimes depending on circumstances - I explained it more closely in my previous post, just maybe read it once again (I might have written some things in a not very easy to understand way). As I said, my world is a bit different when it comes to trading the news given the trade size considerations. There is for example no way I easily leave my stops around with some banks, that's very dangerous in such case.
  • #156
  • Edited 9:33am Sep 11, 2015 6:56am | Edited 9:33am
Quoting katrooo
{quote} hi Kahn88, yes, me and my colleagues trade the news sometimes depending on circumstances - I explained it more closely in my previous post, just maybe read it once again (I might have written some things in a not very easy to understand way). As I said, my world is a bit different when it comes to trading the news given the trade size considerations. There is for example no way I easily leave my stops around with some banks, that's very dangerous in such case.
Hello katrooo,

Sorry about asking the question again. I guess it was probably because of a long day I had and the post was at 1 in the morning. Regarding your post, 50 bucks ticket well it could happen in fact it did happen to one of the traders. His trade hit stop but was not executed but it does not happen often. Tell you what, I did see traders with 50 bucks news (NFP) trade and 200 pips stop never had any issue (an example) so my point is, yes you are right it happens but again it depends on your risk management. They seem to have big stops and stay away from one of those "slaughter" moments. News are of my particular interest because I come from gambling background and I see it as a pure gamble with risk adjustment.
  • #157
  • Sep 17, 2015 4:13pm Sep 17, 2015 4:13pm
I have a friend who started off installing telephones. He still does this but has progressed onto installing all sorts of remote controlled equipment for rich people. you know the sort of thing, remote controlled doors, shutters, even three piece suites. the sort of things Quagmire might have in his house. some of his work involves doing this for a very rich forex trader who lives in a hugely huge house in London. The trader is a multi millionaire , but my friend tells me he hasn't traded for years, just lives off his trading profits made previously. So there you go. I can tell you the traders name if you like.
  • #158
  • Sep 17, 2015 4:32pm Sep 17, 2015 4:32pm
Quoting headfake
{quote} yes, they don't hang around forums though, too much negativity, they don't use ma's and don't think markets are random either
Why not. This forum has some awesome news resources and people on board.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #159
  • Sep 17, 2015 5:01pm Sep 17, 2015 5:01pm
Quoting headfake
{quote} yes, they don't hang around forums though, too much negativity, they don't use ma's and don't think markets are random either
Ha ! GOOD ONE!1 As we all should know , markets are random, and I know of a very successful mm fund, ran by ex turtle traders who use 52 week ma as their basis. ( by the way, trends are part of the randomness)
  • #160
  • Sep 17, 2015 5:11pm Sep 17, 2015 5:11pm
Given that about 4% of the US population has a million, that would mean that 1 in every 25 posters from the US should have a million or more. This is assuming that posters on this financial forum are a perfect representation of the US population. However given that this is a somewhat technical website with a strong focus on finance, I would guess that there is a bias towards more wealth than there is in the general population.
Kill the ego, or it will kill the mission.
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