Grids Without Greed | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

control greed! 14 replies

VTTrader: fib grids 16 replies

The pool, grids, martingale and hedge re-visit! 60 replies

Boomerangs Martingales and Grids 1 reply

Hedge Fund Greed vs Distressed Homeowners-The Battle's On! 1 reply

Attachments: Grids Without Greed
Exit Attachments

Grids Without Greed

  • #1
  • First Post: Aug 6, 2015 6:31am Aug 6, 2015 6:31am
Hi All,

I am pretty much aware that when I mention grid trading, most people with turn the dial to another topic in a flash.

Now that you have not done that yet, lemmi make it short. I have been trading grids for a while and I know that the trend is your best friend, but when it turns, it becomes your worst enemy. It is very profitable to trade grids when the trend is 'correct' but when it turns, you gotta get out (concede defeat) and either ride on the opposite direction or wait for another opportunity. In the meantime, if you had accumulated some 'wrong trades' at the turn of the trend, you MUST decide on how to deal with them, otherwise the drawdown will start to pile up. That is the key to grid trading IMHO.

Now, what if you start managing these 'wrong trades' early enough before they pile up? And once they reach a certain threshold, you lock them up with counter trades (of opposite directions) till the trend favors them again.. or till you manage them in another way.. or till you decide to do away with them altogether and concede that loss? Or maybe set an expiry date that if they will still be pending they get closed and you move on..

I stumbled on a certain EA and I have been doing modifications on the same but am not a pro in coding, so you'll find it either rubbish or funny. It does not have the features to manage the wrong trades or to lock them out, and it has errors in the lot size calculations for the orders added after the initial order, and it is quite plain and simple. So I though we could come together and finally develop a nice grid trading system which can allow one to sleep soundly at night without waking up in panic mode.

I have attached the EA here and as is the case with all grid systems, it would work best on the major pairs like GBPUSD which don't trend in one direction forever, though we could also find a fix to accommodate all types of trading scenarios and all pairs.. also, they tend to require some good balance on your account to cater for drawdowns but again we should find a way around that and have it work in small accounts too.

Am sure there are better EAs that are out there which are more advanced than this one, or that have all, some, or better of these features, let's feel free to share them and combine all their concepts here so that we come up with a nice output.

Please feel free to participate, let's work together as a team, let's focus on the positives and work towards the good of this project/ venture. I hope you find this interesting, but if not, am really sorry for wasting your time.

Lastly, let's have fun!! Thank you.
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Double_Edged.mq4   46 KB | 1,091 downloads
BitByBit..
  • #2
  • Aug 6, 2015 7:21am Aug 6, 2015 7:21am
Can you add some filters like MACD for identified correct trade based in trend and also try to add day target, once day target hit ea will stop trade for day,
  • #3
  • Aug 6, 2015 7:38am Aug 6, 2015 7:38am
Quoting yadgayan
Can you add some filters like MACD for identified correct trade based in trend and also try to add day target, once day target hit ea will stop trade for day,
Hey Yadgayan,
Thanks for the suggestion, I think it would be a good addition to the system. I will try to implement that although as I mentioned am not a good coder.
Do we have someone else who can also try to implement this?

Cheers.
BitByBit..
  • #4
  • Aug 6, 2015 11:39am Aug 6, 2015 11:39am
Quoting colyske
Hi All, I am pretty much aware that when I mention grid trading, most people with turn the dial to another topic in a flash. Now that you have not done that yet, lemmi make it short. I have been trading grids for a while and I know that the trend is your best friend, but when it turns, it becomes your worst enemy. It is very profitable to trade grids when the trend is 'correct' but when it turns, you gotta get out (concede defeat) and either ride on the opposite direction or wait for another opportunity. In the meantime, if you had accumulated some...
hello, can you explain how it works your EA?
  • #5
  • Aug 6, 2015 12:32pm Aug 6, 2015 12:32pm
Quoting mickael58
{quote} hello, can you explain how it works your EA?
Hi Mickael,

The EA starts off with a lotsize that is the equivalent of of an account with $10000, such that if you put lotsize one and your account has $5000, then the starting lotsize will be 0.5
Then, for instance if it makes a Buy and the price happens to move down, the EA will add another Buy after the price has moved down more than the pips (points) specified in the PipStep section. It then calculates a new single takeprofit based on the average of the two open Buys. If the price continues down, the EA adds a larger Buy after the PipStep is exceeded again (if the price difference is more than the Pipstep) and moves the takeprofit further down by averaging the total takeprofits of the three open Buys and placing them together, and so on.

The EA opens orders only on a new bar (to avoid it opening many orders in case of a large breakout). The lotsize is increased each time by multiplying the current orders' lots with the LotExponent. So, once the price retraces up it hits the takeprofits and closes all the Buys together (some in negative but the ones in positive compensate and add some profit). It does the same for the Sells too.
So essentially, as long as the price moves and then retraces, the EA will continue making profit as it is.

However, what I want is to control the potential drawdown if for example the price keeps going down without retracing. I want the EA to be closing some of the open orders systematically if they reach a certain point, or it opens an opposite trade to hedge the bad trades and still calculate a new takeprofit point etc. I want us to come up with ideas on how to manage the risks involved in this type of trading and improve this EA to a nice reliable tool because as it is, it can make profit but the risk is large.

Hope I have explained clearly enough, thanks for the question.
BitByBit..
  • #6
  • Aug 6, 2015 12:37pm Aug 6, 2015 12:37pm
[Quote = colyske; 8421849] {quote} Ciao Mickael, La EA inizia con una Misura che è l'equivalente di di un conto con $ 10.000, in modo tale che se si mette Misura di uno e il tuo account ha $ 5000, quindi la Misura di partenza sarà 0.5 Quindi, ad esempio, se si fa un Buy e il prezzo capita di spostare verso il basso, l'EA si aggiungerà un altro Buy dopo che il prezzo si è spostato verso il basso più di pips (punti) specificati nella sezione PipStep. Si calcola quindi un nuovo takeprofit unico basato sulla media dei due Buys aperte. Se il prezzo continua a scendere, l'EA aggiunge un Acquista più grande dopo il PipStep si supera di nuovo (se la differenza di prezzo è più che la Pipstep) e sposta il takeprofit più in basso dalla media dei takeprofits totali dei tre Buys aperti e metterli insieme, Eccetera. La EA apre ordini soltanto su una nuova barra (per evitare che aprendo molti ordini in caso di una grande rottura). La Misura è aumentata ogni volta moltiplicando i lotti attuali ordini "con il LotExponent. Quindi, una volta che il prezzo ripercorre su esso colpisce i takeprofits e chiude tutte le Buys insieme (un po 'in negativo, ma quelli in positivo compensare e aggiungere un po' di profitto). Si fa lo stesso per il Sells troppo. Quindi, in sostanza, a condizione che il prezzo si muove e poi ripercorre, l'EA sarà continuare a fare profitto come è. Tuttavia, quello che voglio è quello di controllare il potenziale prelievo se per esempio il prezzo continua ad andare giù senza ripercorrere. Voglio che la EA chiuderà alcuni degli ordini aperti sistematicamente se raggiungono un certo punto, o si apre un commercio di fronte a copertura dei mestieri male e ancora calcolare un nuovo punto takeprofit ecc voglio noi a venire con le idee su come per gestire i rischi connessi a questo tipo di commercio e migliorare questo EA per un bel strumento affidabile perché così com'è, si può fare profitto, ma il rischio è grande. Spero di aver spiegato abbastanza chiaramente, grazie per la domanda. [/ quote]

  • #7
  • Aug 6, 2015 2:13pm Aug 6, 2015 2:13pm
Hallo friend,

I am sorry that I should say "this is not trading, BUT GAMBLING".

You should differentiate trading with gambling. If you can't, just demo it, please dont real acc.

Regards,




Quoting colyske
{quote} Hi Mickael, The EA starts off with a lotsize that is the equivalent of of an account with $10000, such that if you put lotsize one and your account has $5000, then the starting lotsize will be 0.5 Then, for instance if it makes a Buy and the price happens to move down, the EA will add another Buy after the price has moved down more than the pips (points) specified in the PipStep section. It then calculates a new single takeprofit based on the average of the two open Buys. If the price continues down, the EA adds a larger Buy after the PipStep...
  • #8
  • Aug 6, 2015 4:32pm Aug 6, 2015 4:32pm
Quoting antonsatu
Hallo friend, I am sorry that I should say "this is not trading, BUT GAMBLING". You should differentiate trading with gambling. If you can't, just demo it, please dont real acc. Regards, {quote}
Hi Antonsatu,

Thanks for your advice. I however think that all types of Forex trading are just forms gambling, whether technical, fundamental, or EAs (nobody really knows where the market goes, just speculation). One fact I know for certain about the market is that it will move. Regardless of the direction or distance, and that's what this EA or trading method exploits. I think this makes it a more informed type of gambling or something like that.. the only motive for involving ourselves in Forex is to make profit out of the market, whichever legal way to do it.

I have been trading this method on real accounts and I can't really complain, though I sometimes have sleepless nights monitoring the EAs so that I can intervene when things start getting out of hand. I can honestly say that this is the first trading method that I have personally made consistent profit with, only that it involves lots of intervention and monitoring, which is what I look to deal with by improving the EA and taming it.

Thanks again for your input.

Cheers!
BitByBit..
  • #9
  • Aug 6, 2015 7:06pm Aug 6, 2015 7:06pm
I use 50:1 leverage only but yes it is full
focus while relaxed to see better
  • #10
  • Aug 6, 2015 8:35pm Aug 6, 2015 8:35pm
HI Col,
The problem is putting many opposite trade for trend is not a good idea. Thats why i told we need trend identification module for the ea (EMA, MA or MACD). Then we can ignore many greedy trade. thats is number one.
number 2 is in case trend change we should start kind of hedging.After that we can find new TP point.
those tips may help you for reduce the risk.
  • #11
  • Aug 7, 2015 3:36pm Aug 7, 2015 3:36pm
Quoting yadgayan
HI Col, The problem is putting many opposite trade for trend is not a good idea. Thats why i told we need trend identification module for the ea (EMA, MA or MACD). Then we can ignore many greedy trade. thats is number one. number 2 is in case trend change we should start kind of hedging.After that we can find new TP point. those tips may help you for reduce the risk.
Hi Yadgayan, I fully agree with you on that. We need to add filters for trend detection, and also manage the wrong trades in case the trend changes (know the point to stop adding more trades early enough and deal with the open orders), so as to minimize drawdown.

I will try to add MA filter to the EA and upload it. However am not good in coding, could someone help to make a module for recalculating a new TP point please?

Thanks so much Yadgayan!
BitByBit..
  • #12
  • Aug 7, 2015 3:41pm Aug 7, 2015 3:41pm
Quoting orabi
I use 50:1 leverage only but yes it is full
Hi Orabi,
I agree with you, 50:1 is good leverage for safety purposes because in forex anything can happen.
I have been seeing your posts in other threads and I know you have been in the game for a long time, am glad to have your input in this
BitByBit..
  • #13
  • Aug 8, 2015 3:37am Aug 8, 2015 3:37am
Hi colyske,

I would like to share, if you can't differentiate trading with gambling, it's better not to trading. All gambler are lossing money eventually, just wait for the time to loss the money.
Maybe, you should realize first, WHAT THE TRADER'S JOB IS. If trader doesnt't know what his job is, how will he perform well?

Regards,






Quoting colyske
{quote} Hi Antonsatu, Thanks for your advice. I however think that all types of Forex trading are just forms gambling, whether technical, fundamental, or EAs (nobody really knows where the market goes, just speculation). One fact I know for certain about the market is that it will move. Regardless of the direction or distance, and that's what this EA or trading method exploits. I think this makes it a more informed type of gambling or something like that.. the only motive for involving ourselves in Forex is to make profit out of the market, whichever...
  • #14
  • Aug 8, 2015 4:59am Aug 8, 2015 4:59am
Hey colyske,

did u already check iamgootza's thread?

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=480917

His feb10 project utilizes the trade recovery u r talking about in a solid way. Maybe u can add some ideas or proposal there as imho his project is the most promising in view of this type of trading.

I am using it on several real accounts and can't complain.
  • #15
  • Aug 8, 2015 12:17pm Aug 8, 2015 12:17pm
Quoting antonsatu
Hi colyske, I would like to share, if you can't differentiate trading with gambling, it's better not to trading. All gambler are lossing money eventually, just wait for the time to loss the money. Maybe, you should realize first, WHAT THE TRADER'S JOB IS. If trader doesnt't know what his job is, how will he perform well? Regards, {quote}
Hi Antonsatu,

Thanks for the advice. In your own opinion, what would you call trading, and where do you think am going wrong? I think it would be good to enlighten me and the other people reading this thread. After all, we are here to help each other and to succeed with each other.

Thanks in advance.
BitByBit..
  • #16
  • Aug 8, 2015 12:32pm Aug 8, 2015 12:32pm
Quoting Drolph
Hey colyske, did u already check iamgootza's thread? http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=480917 His feb10 project utilizes the trade recovery u r talking about in a solid way. Maybe u can add some ideas or proposal there as imho his project is the most promising in view of this type of trading. I am using it on several real accounts and can't complain.
Hi Drolph,

I had not gone through iamgootza's thread before, I think it has a lot of information and already implemented most of the ideas I have for taming the grid-trading method. Very inspiring!

Thanks so much buddy for your contribution. I think I will later share some feedback concerning that thread once I skim through it.

Am glad to hear that you are using it on real accounts and are satisfied with it so far! Which version are you using for your real accounts? Would you be having some settings you can recommend for the EA?

Cheers buddy.
BitByBit..
  • #17
  • Edited 3:24am Aug 9, 2015 3:11am | Edited 3:24am
I trade grids on the daily tf. more like bird watching in lion country stuff.
Xaron explained it in detail. you can look him up. he trades only EUR/USD.
I trade more instruments, but only which are not much related like A/C E/G N/U SGD/J oil gold nasdaq100 aus200 hk50 natural gas.

A/C is ranging for the last couple of months. I divided the range 0.9403 - 0.9748 in 4 equal zones with 5 lines.
I buy mostly in the 1st area = bottom area - maybe some in the 2nd area, sell some in the 3rd area and most in the 4th - the top area. At the moment I`m short @ 0.9670 and @ 0.9733

If the price would rise, I just wait until the trend turns. I might be 500 pips in the red, but I wait until price comes back down for a few days and I sell again for a better average price.

The secret is the diversification over more instruments to trade: when a couple are in the red, the others might show green pips.
  • #18
  • Aug 9, 2015 5:32am Aug 9, 2015 5:32am
Hi I have downloaded the ae but curious on what your settings you are using are

What are your pip intervals 6 pips 50 pips or 100 pips if you are trading gbp/Usd ?

Maximum multiple 5 so I presume 0.1 , 0.167 ,0.27, 0.46, 0.77, 1.29 if the trade goes against you ?

Total equity risk. Is that 100 dollars or your whole bank 10,000 ?

What is Gathagi ?
  • #19
  • Aug 9, 2015 8:55am Aug 9, 2015 8:55am
Quoting yonnie
I trade grids on the daily tf. more like bird watching in lion country stuff. Xaron explained it in detail. you can look him up. he trades only EUR/USD. I trade more instruments, but only which are not much related like A/C E/G N/U SGD/J oil gold nasdaq100 aus200 hk50 natural gas. A/C is ranging for the last couple of months. I divided the range 0.9403 - 0.9748 in 4 equal zones with 5 lines. I buy mostly in the 1st area = bottom area - maybe some in the 2nd area, sell some in the 3rd area and most in the 4th - the top area. At the moment I`m short...
Hi Yonnie,

I think that's a great way of trading grids, especially the diversification part. Just trade with small lots but across many unrelated pairs. When one pair is on your neck, another pair compensates with some green figures, all you need is patience and an exit plan if things threaten to run out of hand

I will look up Xaron and pick points from him, thanks so much for your contribution.
BitByBit..
  • #20
  • Aug 9, 2015 9:17am Aug 9, 2015 9:17am
Quoting raylin
Hi I have downloaded the ae but curious on what your settings you are using are What are your pip intervals 6 pips 50 pips or 100 pips if you are trading gbp/Usd ? Maximum multiple 5 so I presume 0.1 , 0.167 ,0.27, 0.46, 0.77, 1.29 if the trade goes against you ? Total equity risk. Is that 100 dollars or your whole bank 10,000 ? What is Gathagi ?
Hi Raylin,

Am currently using 30 pip (300 points) PipStep.

With a Lots10K of 0.1, if the MaxMultiple is 5, then the maximum lotsize the EA can use is 0.5, but am using a maxmultiple of 4 so the lotsizes it uses increases up to 0.4 and it keeps adding at 0.4 indefinitely.. (something that should be improved so as to stop or concede some defeat at some point)

Note that the first added order has the same lotsize as the initial order.. so if the initial order has 0.1, the second will still have 0.1 and the next one will now be increased depending on your LotExponent.

If you put the equity risk at 100 then you will be risking your whole bank! I think its better/ safer to use a much smaller portion of you account per pair.

Lastly, as per the code, I found out that 'Gathagi' is the number of minutes the EA sleeps if the spread widens beyond what you will specify in the 'newsspread' section. This is to avoid trading during very high volatility and I think it would only be useful for guys who trade on 1min charts.

Thanks for the questions.
BitByBit..
0 traders viewing now