Why every US trader needs to trade offshore | Page 6 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Why not just open the trade and check back every few days 13 replies

Why can't every good trader teach well? 17 replies

The one hurdle EVERY trader needs to overcome 14 replies

The REAL reason why nearly every trader fails. Can you solve this trading dilemma? 85 replies

MT4 needs to reinstall every day...why? 5 replies

Attachments: Why every US trader needs to trade offshore
Exit Attachments

Why every US trader needs to trade offshore

  • #101
  • Jul 24, 2015 10:53pm Jul 24, 2015 10:53pm
(I don't know what it means, do your own dd.)

http://mnetax.com/9490-9490

The complete list of blacklisted countries is as follows: Andorra, Liechtenstein, Guernsey, Monaco, Mauritius, Liberia, Seychelles, Brunei, Hong Kong, Maldives, Cook Islands, Nauru, Niue, Marshall Islands, Vanuatu, Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Grenada, Montserrat, Panama, St Vincent and the Grenadines, St Kitts and Nevis, Turks and Caicos, US Virgin Islands.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #102
  • Jul 25, 2015 6:04am Jul 25, 2015 6:04am
Quoting Profit Daily
If you want to trade with someone who (a) holds the other side of your position, (b) makes up and interprets all the rules, and (c) holds your funds at the same time, then good luck, and you may eventually need it.

In the bold type above, You've just described the regulated brokers in the US.

On the contrary, that description covers the ones pretending to be brokers, who don't actually execute their customer's orders in the market, but trade against them.

There are also others, (I even gave an example, in my post!), who don't do that, and are brokers.

What matters is for people to learn to distinguish between the two.

Quoting Profit Daily
Don't want to start an argument here
Neither do I; but I'll still correct factual misinformation, and some of your posts are full of it.
  • #103
  • Jul 25, 2015 10:21am Jul 25, 2015 10:21am
Quoting Xela
{quote} On the contrary, that description covers the ones pretending to be brokers, who don't actually execute their customer's orders in the market, but trade against them. There are also others, (I even gave an example, in my post!), who don't do that, and are brokers. What matters is for people to learn to distinguish between the two. {quote} Neither do I; but I'll still correct factual misinformation, and some of your posts are full of it.
As I stated, not here to argue. my whole point is to show everyone there is a much better way than trading under the ridiculous restrictions of the CFTC. Other than Interactive Brokers,what US BROKER does that definition NOT DESCRIBE?

My offshore broker is pure ECN, I have watched price come within .01. Of my stop and not get hit, I guarantee they would have been taken out with a US broker. My platform never freezes, there are no random pice spikes not seen anywhere else.

The fact still remains your forex account has no protection at Interactive Brokers, futures and stocks do, but not forex. You have 10 times the money on deposit with them while I keep the 90% I don't need for margin in my bank. that extra 90% you have on deposit is simply for margin requirements, so it does you no benefit. it's just unprotected money that doesn't need to be there.

Lastly, please provide me with just one example of information I have posted in this thread that is not correct or factual?
  • #104
  • Jul 25, 2015 12:12pm Jul 25, 2015 12:12pm
Quoting Profit Daily
please provide me with just one example of information I have posted in this thread that is not correct or factual?

I've already done that, in the post just above. Your statement, that I quoted at the start of that post, was completely wrong.

You said, wrongly, that the description I gave was a description of regulated brokers in the US. It isn't: it's a description of people pretending to be brokers, who actually trade against their own clients (in contrast to companies like "Interactive Brokers", for example, who execute every order on their clients' behalf in the interbank market).

Unlike most of what you're posting, this isn't opinion: it's simply factual, and irrefutable.

However much I disagree with your personal opinions (as almost anyone actually making their living through trading would), I'm perfectly prepared to respect your right to give your own personal opinions about what you see as the merits of trading through offshore "brokers", just as I hope and trust you're equally willing to respect my right to mention the all-important distinction between people who actually are brokers and people pretending to be brokers while trading against their own clients, holding their clients' funds and making up and interpreting all the rules governing the transactions at the same time, and to point out some of the dangers of using companies "regulated" offshore, and the reasons so many of them choose to be regulated offshore.

If you don't want to argue, stop arguing.
  • #105
  • Jul 25, 2015 12:22pm Jul 25, 2015 12:22pm
Quoting TrkgSailor
Hi Profit Daily, Thanks for stating facts so frankly. I've been a long-time lurker here, and am about to start trading seriously. If you would PM me with your broker info, I would appreciate it. I've joined here just to get this info, and this is thus my first post - so cannot PM you yet. Thx in advance.
Same request as Sailor's.

Thanks!
  • #106
  • Jul 25, 2015 12:23pm Jul 25, 2015 12:23pm
Actually, I agree Interactive Brokers is a "real" broker. Fact still remains they are regulated under the CFTC, which means you have to deposit 10 times more for margin than I do, and these funds are not protected. This is also "simply factual and irrefutable"

Other than Interactive Brokers, who you clearly trade with, what US broker is not "pretending" to be a broker? FXCM, Forex.com, Oanda?

So unless you have 10K to deposit, there is no option in the US.

I can accomplish the same with 1K offshore as you can with 10K here. I still have 10 K devoted to trading, I just keep it safe in my bank. I'm using 10K as an example for simplicity.

This is my thread devoted to the benefits of trading offshore, perhaps you should start a thread demonstrating the benefits (I use the term very loosely) of trading with a US broker.
  • #107
  • Jul 25, 2015 12:54pm Jul 25, 2015 12:54pm
You are right on profit daily. It is clear that people can't really believe that even the authorities that should work on people's behalf fail to do this and get bought out. Even in countries of laws such as the great USA.
  • #108
  • Jul 25, 2015 2:42pm Jul 25, 2015 2:42pm
Quoting Xela
{quote} pretending to be brokers while trading against their own clients, holding their clients' funds and making up and interpreting all the rules governing the transactions at the same time, and to point out some of the dangers of using companies "regulated" offshore, and the reasons so many of them choose to be regulated offshore. If you don't want to argue, stop arguing.
you do know this thread is about the benefits of using higher leverage with off shore broker so you can hold most of your portfolio in your state side bank account right? you keep wanting to talk about the validity of trusting off shore brokers and while that might see on topic to you, its not. its off topic. please start another thread
  • #109
  • Jul 25, 2015 6:25pm Jul 25, 2015 6:25pm
I think this thread contains some valid arguments for offshore brokers. The main issue I have with them is the fees that I would be charged to move my money around. This is going to eat into profits depending on your deposit and withdrawl schedule. The last thing I need is something else eating into profits besides commissions and spread. On the flip side, the risk of loss is far less due to the fact that you are required to have significantly less on deposit due to the lower margin requirements. Just depends on what matters more to you. I have had a bad experience with an offshore broker claiming to have never received my initial deposit. These are some other risks you could run into. IMO weigh the pros and the cons and decide what is right for you.
  • #110
  • Jul 25, 2015 6:46pm Jul 25, 2015 6:46pm
Quoting MidnightRun
{quote} Same request as Sailor's. Thanks!
How much does FBI kick back for introducing a new account?
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #111
  • Jul 25, 2015 7:00pm Jul 25, 2015 7:00pm
Quoting The Fool
{quote} How much does FBI kick back for introducing a new account?
If you're asking me, I have no idea, they were part of my 22 months of research, used them for 6 months, but they didn't even make my short list. My current broker has 30% lower spreads and 50% less commission. FBI charges 1.5 pip round turn, that's insane!
  • #112
  • Jul 25, 2015 7:08pm Jul 25, 2015 7:08pm
would you please PM me your "short list"?
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #113
  • Jul 26, 2015 2:22pm Jul 26, 2015 2:22pm
Quoting The Fool
would you please PM me your "short list"?
interesting to note that the OP's preferred offshore "broker" lists its location as 8 Copthall, Roseau Valley, Dominica. Try googling that address and see what you find: several other forex "brokers" are located there, too. Along with various other porno websites and a host of fly-by-night internet business schemes. So, sure, it's a building with a room full of mailboxes where any number of offshore entities can rent an address.

If you are using these crooks with your chicken feed account to get 1000:1 margin and they are actually letting you withdraw your profits, good on you. But you'd have to be a complete dope not to see that it is just a matter of time until they are gone, prolly taking lotsa chicken feed with them to help start up the next scam.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #114
  • Jul 26, 2015 3:27pm Jul 26, 2015 3:27pm
Quoting The Fool
{quote} interesting to note that the OP's preferred offshore "broker" lists its location as 8 Copthall, Roseau Valley, Dominica. Try googling that address and see what you find: several other forex "brokers" are located there, too. Along with various other porno websites and a host of fly-by-night internet business schemes. So, sure, it's a building with a room full of mailboxes where any number of offshore entities can rent an address. If you are using these crooks with your chicken feed account to get 1000:1 margin and they are actually letting...
I appreciate your careful approach to doing business and entirely understand that you are wary of offshore companies, especially in the current environment where companies pop in and out of existence very quickly. They are located in an office complex and thus mail is handled by a central mail department within the complex and is then forwarded to their office. There is a company within the complex (known as a "registered agent") which registers international companies (some of which you may have found in your Google searches). These companies are generally Bitcoin schemes or the like and come and go rather quickly. This registered agent provides its clients (the international companies) with a registered address -- their own. Part of their arrangement with their clients is that any mail received on their clients' behalf is then forwarded to their clients (who may reside on the other side of the world). They however use their office space.
They also have offices in Europe and Asia in line with their business model but do not provide this address as it only houses internal departments (those that are part of their infrastructure but are inaccessible to clients) -- much like how banks and credit card companies have their own internal departments. They have segregated their departments in order to provide for accountability and organization of all of their operations. They take this very seriously.
That being said, they have over 10,000 active clients worldwide. They have chosen their business model such as to bring in as many traders as they can and provide them as many options as possible while being completely honest and fair in the process. That is why they invest tens of thousands per month in the very best and professional employees, a dedicated compliance team, 24/5 chat support and a sales department that continually studies the needs of clients and works to adapt to their needs.

In the end, it is all up to you. But, to be honest, it really seems your sole intent here is to convince folks they should be trading with a US broker. While you may consider my account chicken feed, fact is, i would have to deposit 10 times more with a US broker and not have that money protected in any way. I withdrawal every week without issue and I have trading conditions not available (not even close) here in the US.
  • #115
  • Jul 26, 2015 3:36pm Jul 26, 2015 3:36pm
It really seems those that are afraid to think out of the box like to convince others they shouldn't as well.Generally speaking, I agree, offshore is not USUALLY a good bet. This does not mean every company operating offshore is no good. Truth be told, it is actually the fault of the US regulatory environment that makes this a requirement for some. If they would just provide the same trading conditions as the rest of the free world, protect our accounts and actually REGULATE THE BROKERS, I'd be happy to trade here.
  • #116
  • Jul 26, 2015 3:44pm Jul 26, 2015 3:44pm
Great post from a fellow trader in Europe

If I had to trade under their rules and margin, trading FX would not pay my bills. Not only am I able to hedge drawdowns, but I can take off portions of large positions I have scaled into, right near the pullbacks and dips (when I get it right), bank some profit for the day, and let the more mature positions ride (LIFO). After all of that, I can look for setups to add more, possibly hedge, or just get out (you get the idea). Outside of the US, I have the capability and flexibility to manage my trades for maximum profit potential. Sure, I get stopped out because I am too early, or just plain wrong, but when I can build a good position with multiple trades at the time and price of my choosing, and get it right, well, you know what happens

None of us can expect to live reasonably well trading .1 lots on the short term, but that's all many of us will have theopportunity for, and means to risk,going forward. My most profitable trade in 2014 was on USDMXN. I would have never been watching that pair at 5% margin. This Monday, it goes to 6%. AUD and JPY increase to 3%! US traders have to now put up and risk over $3k for $8.50/pip on a 1 lot USDJPY trade?! USDMXN will be $6,000! On the other hand, I will only risk $500 for the same trade. When I get it right,I will have the opportunity to scale up- The US trader will have only a fraction of the same potential.

Here's Oanda putting lipstick on this pig-

"Some companies outside the U.S.A. may offer 100:1 leverage, or even 200:1, but OANDA believes these levels are far too risky and could cause clients to lose all their funds very quickly. Serious professionals seldom trade at those levels of risk."

Are you buying any of the Oanda statement? Seldom is the key word. I seldom go 200:1, but when I do, the strength of the position warrants the risk, and I can make a ton of money to pay for my losers AND go buy groceries. I have the opportunity! The risk isn't in the leverage, it's in the trade size. Why are there so many people that believe leverage is "far too risky"? Leverage isn't the problem- People who don't trade proper size are. Leverage is a tool that provides opportunity with less risk. Forking money over to any broker is a risk! The NFA wants us to give more money to the brokers? To protect us from risk? Like PFG or MF?
  • #117
  • Jul 26, 2015 3:48pm Jul 26, 2015 3:48pm
My question to non-US traders: How do you NOT make money, with the ability to hedge? Seems like shooting fish in a barrel, yet so many traders around the world, US especially, lose money. I am losing currently, as well.
  • #118
  • Jul 26, 2015 4:59pm Jul 26, 2015 4:59pm
Quoting Profit Daily
it really seems your sole intent here is to convince folks they should be trading with a US broker.
no actually I would try to convince traders to trade in the exchange-traded instruments. The offshore bucketshops that you represent are probably only marginally worse than those that still operate in the US, but at least here you have recourse to the courts when they go titsup or try to abscond with traders' funds, if that's any consolation. But I don't care, go ahead and shill for whoever. As I've said before, if somebody wants to piss away their money in a rigged game, it's their business.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #119
  • Jul 26, 2015 5:02pm Jul 26, 2015 5:02pm
Quoting MisterWhite
My question to non-US traders: How do you NOT make money, with the ability to hedge?
If you want to hedge your trades, learn how to trade spreads, pairs trade, etc, with all the techniques that are available to futures and options traders.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
  • #120
  • Jul 26, 2015 5:22pm Jul 26, 2015 5:22pm
Quoting Profit Daily
Great post from a fellow trader in Europe If I had to trade under their rules and margin, trading FX would not pay my bills. Not only am I able to hedge drawdowns, but I can take off portions of large positions I have scaled into, right near the pullbacks and dips (when I get it right), bank some profit for the day, and let the more mature positions ride (LIFO). After all of that, I can look for setups to add more, possibly hedge, or just get out (you get the idea). Outside of the US, I have the capability and flexibility to manage my trades for...
Well not much else to say there. If people aren't getting it by now, they never will. I'm kinda ok with that.

What Oanda should say is professional traders have millions to play with so that kind of leverage for them is unnecessary. For the retail trader to be profitable, responsibly used large margin is very necessary in order to see any meaningful profit.
0 traders viewing now