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  • #441
  • Jul 22, 2015 1:24am Jul 22, 2015 1:24am
Quoting amarfx
{quote} Its all depends how one trades or gambles and it end flow is toxic but were comes leverage part decides flow? Yeah a broker willing to retailise your flow doesn't harm the industry right?
Well if my prime of prime broker is taking retail clients I would be leaving immediately... Some pricing streams are set up for retail sub 500 k flow, some are for 1 - 5 mio some are for 10 mio +. If my broker starts taking non professional institutional flow and accepting 10 k deposits giving them 1% margin, I would be leaving immediately, toxic for my streaming prices, and dangerous for their balance sheets.

There's a reason why retails trade on other venues...
  • #442
  • Jul 22, 2015 2:46am Jul 22, 2015 2:46am
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} Well if my prime of prime broker is taking retail clients I would be leaving immediately... Some pricing streams are set up for retail sub 500 k flow, some are for 1 - 5 mio some are for 10 mio +. If my broker starts taking non professional institutional flow and accepting 10 k deposits giving them 1% margin, I would be leaving immediately, toxic for my streaming prices, and dangerous for their balance sheets. There's a reason why retails trade on other venues...
who is your broker?
  • #443
  • Jul 22, 2015 2:54am Jul 22, 2015 2:54am
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} Well if my prime of prime broker is taking retail clients I would be leaving immediately... Some pricing streams are set up for retail sub 500 k flow, some are for 1 - 5 mio some are for 10 mio +. If my broker starts taking non professional institutional flow and accepting 10 k deposits giving them 1% margin, I would be leaving immediately, toxic for my streaming prices, and dangerous for their balance sheets. There's a reason why retails trade on other venues...
What is mean by my streaming price here? and dangerous to their balance sheets how?
  • #444
  • Jul 22, 2015 3:08am Jul 22, 2015 3:08am
Quoting amarfx
{quote} What is mean by my streaming price here? and dangerous to their balance sheets how?
Sighs... There are streams built for retail client, precisely for people like you who trade less than 10 k in size. Retail has a depth of around 40 million so not designed to sweep the book.

Institutional has 130 million depth of book and designed for book sweeping, so if you start mixing retail and institutional the streaming prices become worse than what it should be, this is really basic and this is why you should not use a prime of prime and it's unlikely that they'd take your business cause their stream is designed for institutional customers...

If you want to use a prime of prime in the UK you need to qualify to be an elective professional by the FCA too.

Not trying to be difficult but this market is simply for people who deposit 100 k + and trade on a 10 or 25% margin..

And balance sheet issue is so obvious, for retail guys who leverage 1 or 0.5% then lose on a weekend gap or an event like SNB, the broker loses out on the money you lost so most prime of prime dont offer higher leverage than their prime broker
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Click to Enlarge Name: retail.png Size: 43 KB
  • #445
  • Jul 22, 2015 3:42am Jul 22, 2015 3:42am
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} Sighs... There are streams built for retail client, precisely for people like you who trade less than 10 k in size. Retail has a depth of around 40 million so not designed to sweep the book. Institutional has 130 million depth of book and designed for book sweeping, so if you start mixing retail and institutional the streaming prices become worse than what it should be, this is really basic and this is why you should not use a prime of prime and it's unlikely that they'd take your business cause their stream is designed for institutional...
The 40 million and 130 million you quoted mean the available liquidity on their respective top of book and measure of their liquidity right? but a POP can't run a internal matching engine and aggregate size? before passing it to institutional toxic flow?

Also by the term you meant " there are streams built for retail client" you mean market is artificially build by our liquidity providers using their customized price engine?
  • #446
  • Jul 22, 2015 3:45am Jul 22, 2015 3:45am
Quoting amarfx
{quote} The 40 million and 130 million you quoted mean the available liquidity on their respective top of book and measure of their liquidity right? but a POP can't run a internal matching engine and aggregate size? before passing it to institutional toxic flow?
That's the depth of book not top of book, pop dont run internal matching engines as they are pure STP...
  • #447
  • Jul 22, 2015 3:50am Jul 22, 2015 3:50am
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} That's the depth of book not top of book, pop dont run internal matching engines as they are pure STP...
Running a matching engine to match with another counter order is not STP ? its straight through processed to another order or another party is not same technically speaking isn't?
  • #448
  • Jul 22, 2015 3:52am Jul 22, 2015 3:52am
Quoting amarfx
{quote} Running a matching engine to match with another counter order is not STP ? its straight through processed to another order or another party is not same technically speaking isn't?
That's ECN... Where buyers are matched with sellers... and the broker in this instance uses Currenex as the ECN...
  • #449
  • Jul 22, 2015 3:55am Jul 22, 2015 3:55am
Spread on VWAP seems not fixed , so based on any size you sweep they take their cut so were does toxic is getting misfiled or looses its steam here, I wonder really ?
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  • #450
  • Jul 22, 2015 3:59am Jul 22, 2015 3:59am
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} That's ECN... Where buyers are matched with sellers... and the broker in this instance uses Currenex as the ECN...
That another seller is just a counter order to be precise don't need to be another person who must sells, and so running a ME is not crime for POP by any legal frames works i guess?
  • #451
  • Jul 22, 2015 4:08am Jul 22, 2015 4:08am
Quoting amarfx
Spread on VWAP seems not fixed , so based on any size you sweep they take their cut so were does toxic is getting misfiled or looses its steam here, I wonder really ? {image} {image}
I'm not sure if i follow and this if cTrader right? Still a retail stream
  • #452
  • Jul 22, 2015 4:11am Jul 22, 2015 4:11am
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} I'm not sure if i follow and this if cTrader right? Still a retail stream
Its not ctrader and ctraders is not the only platform on earth offering VWAP LOL also my previous question's is still unanswered
  • #453
  • Jul 22, 2015 4:27am Jul 22, 2015 4:27am
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} I'm not sure if i follow and this if cTrader right? Still a retail stream
cTrader is not just a platform and it has nothing to do with were is it connected isn't?
  • #454
  • Jul 22, 2015 5:02am Jul 22, 2015 5:02am
Quoting amarfx
{quote} That another seller is just a counter order to be precise don't need to be another person who must sells, and so running a ME is not crime for POP by any legal frames works i guess?
Brokers who use a matching engine is called a hybrid straight through processing "agency model", Electronic Communications Network is when sellers deals with a buyer, when you're dealing on Hotspot, Currenex these are ECN network, where people who execute in Currenex will be matched by the people dealing on CX and the prime of prime broker doesnt offset these by internal flow themselves.

No one said it's a crime, but institutional prime of primes don't usually use traiana to offset their costs, it's only retail brokers such as FxPro who internalise flow before sending them out...
  • #455
  • Jul 22, 2015 5:04am Jul 22, 2015 5:04am
Quoting amarfx
{quote} Its not ctrader and ctraders is not the only platform on earth offering VWAP LOL also my previous question's is still unanswered
You alright? did i say cTrader is the only platform on earth offering VWAP? cTrader was never mentioned on this thread as it's not something we are investigating into, cTrader is the most cost effective platform that offer volume weight average price to retail traders, hence that's why most retail guys use them.

Did you know that half of the prime brokers don't have PBs and use FXCM's stream to execute their flow?
  • #456
  • Jul 22, 2015 5:06am Jul 22, 2015 5:06am
Quoting amarfx
{quote} cTrader is not just a platform and it has nothing to do with were is it connected isn't?
You seem to be missing the point, when retail flow is sent to an institutional streams the liquidity providers might shut them off. Same as the fact that when people sweep the book after NFP a liquidity provider might also shut them off, as it'll cost them in making markets for this trade, so it is not often that brokers plug retail flow into their institutional platform as they want to keep it at the appropriate function?

Retail = 500 k and below, top of the book 1-2 million handles it. Designed not to sweep the book

Institutional = Anything from 2 Million + up to 50 Million, at Cortex and velocity it's around 100 Million. These streams are designed to allow people to sweep the book and not get a huge amount of slippage....
  • #457
  • Jul 22, 2015 5:08am Jul 22, 2015 5:08am
Quoting amarfx
Spread on VWAP seems not fixed , so based on any size you sweep they take their cut so were does toxic is getting misfiled or looses its steam here, I wonder really ? {image} {image}
The depth of market in your screenshot is designed for retail, not for book sweeping. If that's your question.
  • #458
  • Jul 22, 2015 5:44am Jul 22, 2015 5:44am
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} Brokers who use a matching engine is called a hybrid straight through processing "agency model", Electronic Communications Network is when sellers deals with a buyer, when you're dealing on Hotspot, Currenex these are ECN network, where people who execute in Currenex will be matched by the people dealing on CX and the prime of prime broker doesnt offset these by internal flow themselves. No one said it's a crime, but institutional prime of primes don't usually use traiana to offset their costs, it's only retail brokers such as FxPro who...
Alright, hotspot, currenex are technically aggregators and acts as a technology vendor for accessing ECN. Primes by default are not under category institutional are there some thing called retail primes and institutional primes? but over 90% of post trade operation all over world is done by triana so matching with internal ME is perfectly legal and no one cares how POPs fill your PIPS
  • #459
  • Jul 22, 2015 5:47am Jul 22, 2015 5:47am
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} You alright? did i say cTrader is the only platform on earth offering VWAP? cTrader was never mentioned on this thread as it's not something we are investigating into, cTrader is the most cost effective platform that offer volume weight average price to retail traders, hence that's why most retail guys use them. Did you know that half of the prime brokers don't have PBs and use FXCM's stream to execute their flow?
Again, even i didn't said it, its you quote C here 1st which is quite not relative to this threads basic , HALF of PBs if don't have PBs you mean they are fake claims ? FXCMs stream you mean just quotes to create non existing flow?
  • #460
  • Jul 22, 2015 5:53am Jul 22, 2015 5:53am
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} You seem to be missing the point, when retail flow is sent to an institutional streams the liquidity providers might shut them off. Same as the fact that when people sweep the book after NFP a liquidity provider might also shut them off, as it'll cost them in making markets for this trade, so it is not often that brokers plug retail flow into their institutional platform as they want to keep it at the appropriate function? Retail = 500 k and below, top of the book 1-2 million handles it. Designed not to sweep the book Institutional = Anything...
Enlight me again here, retail flow if size less than 40 M if streamed together with institutional toxic flow, then the quality of liquidity will be affected is your point right? or what is other possible reason's that institutional s might shut off their stream/flow to their POP, so typically the real market is far from typical retails access or this PB structure this market in such a way that, avg cost of trading always keep their edges in their favors and never allow to make money by keep statistical edge favorable only to their favors?
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