Why do so many people use MT4? | Forex Factory

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Why do so many people use MT4?

  • #1
  • First Post: Jul 20, 2015 7:54am Jul 20, 2015 7:54am
Personally I don't like MT4. Granted, it is a popular platform and you can use EAs and things of that nature, but for a manual trader like me, I don't see what the appeal is. It's very dated software and while customizable, for someone that doesn't code or know where to look for enhancements that suit their trading style it's a bit daunting. For example, I use Thinkorswim for my forex trading purposes and it has all sorts of advanced orders already built in to the system such as SL/MO/TP in one click with capability to set the pip differential before the trade, which eliminates having to enter numbers every time. The only thing I need to enter is the size of the order which can be done in advance. I have seen no such feature in MT4 out of the box and have yet to run across an EA that replicates this in the same way. Any thoughts? Just want to know if anyone out there has a better experience with MT4 as a manual trader. Especially for intraday trading.
  • #2
  • Edited Jul 21, 2015 1:36pm Jul 20, 2015 7:09pm | Edited Jul 21, 2015 1:36pm
Quoting PipC
Personally I don't like MT4. Granted, it is a popular platform and you can use EAs and things of that nature, but for a manual trader like me, I don't see what the appeal is.
"Why do people use MT4?"

 FREE charting
 FREE live data feed
 FREE historical data
 FREE programming language and test facilities
 FREE demo trading for an unlimited time
 'No strings attached' trading -- there are no volume quotas to meet, no matter which br0ker you open an account with
 Initial account deposits as low as $100, with some br0kers

 Lower internet traffic/overheads than some charting platforms, as prior OHLC values are stored on your hard drive

 MT4 has the largest number of third party written EAs and indicators available. EAs and scripts allow a potentially infinite number of strategies to be automated, and artificial order type combos (straddles, OCO, hedges, scaling in/out, etc) to be created.
(You may be a manual trader, but what about those thousands of newbies who dream about the possibility of EAs providing passive, effortless income...... ??)

 Flexible, comprehensive, user-friendly programming language (the screenshots below were created using MT4 indicators). If you can't find a third party EA or indicator, it's easy to develop one (and if you're not a programmer yourself, forums like FF have instituted a culture where it's easy to find a coder who'll create anything you want, for FREE)

 More than 300 different br0kers to choose from. And if you don't like your current br0ker, you can easily migrate all of your EAs and indicators, and also avoid the nuisance of learning to navigate a different platform. Also, more br0kers = increased competition and incentive to provide better terms and conditions for potential customers (traders).

 In 2014, there were more than 14 million MT4 users worldwide. Hence MT4 is well enough established for its culture to have become deeply ingrained in the 'amateur' trading world. And folk -- especially those who are less computer literate, and want to focus on trading rather than IT complexities -- tend to stick with "the devil they know".

For me personally, MT4's biggest drawback is the relatively high transaction costs (spread, slippage, etc) charged by their br0kers, when compared to (for example) Interactive Brokers. But that must be weighed up against the savings I mentioned. And of course it's possible to use MT4 for analysis, while running an account with an 'institutional strength' br0ker.

I haven't used thinkorswim -- but ask yourself, does it tick all of the same boxes?
If the answer is "no", then you have your answer as to why so many folk (for better or worse!) use MT4.
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  • #3
  • Jul 20, 2015 7:29pm Jul 20, 2015 7:29pm
Quoting hanover
{quote} "Why do people use MT4?" EAs providing passive, effortless income...... ??)
//-----

yep.... that's me.....
//----

hey hanover..... thanks..... couple dozen of us were just waiting on someone to answer so we could just go, "+1".... .....

i'll +1 what hanover said.....h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #4
  • Jul 20, 2015 7:35pm Jul 20, 2015 7:35pm
Quoting hayseed
{quote} //----- yep.... that's me..... //---- hey hanover..... thanks..... couple dozen of us were just waiting on someone to answer so we could just go, "+1".... ..... i'll +1 what hanover said.....h
Sorry hay, I should have said "newbies who dream, and also some exceptional programmer/traders who've managed to turn those dreams into reality".

But I know that you know what I mean.

And to be fair to the OP --- to get the most mileage out of MT4, it certainly helps if you're a programmer. (wink again)
  • #5
  • Jul 20, 2015 9:21pm Jul 20, 2015 9:21pm
Quoting PipC
Personally I don't like MT4. Granted, it is a popular platform and you can use EAs and things of that nature, but for a manual trader like me, I don't see what the appeal is. It's very dated software and while customizable, for someone that doesn't code or know where to look for enhancements that suit their trading style it's a bit daunting. For example, I use Thinkorswim for my forex trading purposes and it has all sorts of advanced orders already built in to the system such as SL/MO/TP in one click with capability to set the pip differential before...
not allowed to have something better till you get 1 million dollars
Perfecting your entry will increase your profits
  • #6
  • Jul 20, 2015 9:36pm Jul 20, 2015 9:36pm
Quoting hanover
MT4's biggest drawback is the relatively high transaction costs (spread, slippage, etc) charged by their br0kers, when compared to (for example) Interactive Brokers. But that must be weighed up against the savings I mentioned. And of course it's possible to use MT4 for analysis, while running an account with an 'institutional strength' br0ker.
Hi, Hanover
If you don't mind, could you please tell me more why we pay higher transaction cost when we use MT4 brokers? Who has the fault? Brokers or MT4 system itself? Is ECN model suitable for MT4 brokers? I use both Pepperstone MT4 and Dukascopy JForex but, to be honest, I don't think transaction cost is lower when i use JForex. My account is relatively small in size. Will this be a big matter when my account grows bigger?
Thanks.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #7
  • Edited 12:36am Jul 21, 2015 12:25am | Edited 12:36am
Quoting PipC
Personally I don't like MT4. Granted, it is a popular platform and you can use EAs and things of that nature, but for a manual trader like me, I don't see what the appeal is.
It is mostly popular with brokers. You have to understand the origins: back then ratail fx mostly existed as bucket shops type brokers (and still does), and Metatrader was tailored to brokers so that they could steal money from their clients quite comfortably (virtual dealer plugin is enough info for everyone sane).

So, almost all brokers do not offer anyting else, or if they do, make other solutions unattractive. And now we are in the same trap as with i.e. Windows or Intel Technologie (x86) - it is called backwards compatibility. Meaning the big argument now is that there exists so much custom software (indis, EAs etc) for the platform so that noobs are so in favour of the platform, because they think it can make them rich over night if they only get hold of that holy grail EA or indicator code

It is quite telling that there does not exist an open source api across brokers - they are simply not interested in giving traders all that power. And most people seem to be under the impression that MT is for free. None of it is for free - MetaQuotes is not a non-profit organisation. We all pay MQ big; the cost of MT (server and infrastructure) is passed onto the traders as a markup to cost of trading, hitting traders at small brokers proportionally more.
Return To Disorder
  • #8
  • Edited 1:01am Jul 21, 2015 12:32am | Edited 1:01am
Quoting heispark
{quote} Hi, Hanover If you don't mind, could you please tell me more why we pay higher transaction cost when we use MT4 brokers? Who has the fault? Brokers or MT4 system itself? Is ECN model suitable for MT4 brokers? I use both Pepperstone MT4 and Dukascopy JForex but, to be honest, I don't think transaction cost is lower when i use JForex. My account is relatively small in size. Will this be a big matter when my account grows bigger? Thanks.
As a hobby trader, I trade only small accounts, and I don't scalp or trade high impact news events, hence spread/slippage is less of an issue for me.

I've run live accounts with both Pepperstone and AxiTrader (I still use Axi), and I've had no major problems with either of them, or their application of the ECN/STP model. My understanding is that spreads depend to some extent on where the br0ker resides in the overall hierarchy, i.e. retail br0kers, being at the bottom, necessarily charge their own fees in addition to meeting costs being passed down from the larger banks and br0kers. However, these 'industrial size' br0kers typically require a 6 or 7 digit deposit minimum, making them inaccessible to many retail traders.

Obviously terms and conditions (spreads, commissions, minimum deposit, any monthly trade quotas, etc) vary from br0ker to br0ker, and the only way of getting a definitive answer to your questions would be to perform suitable research (and due diligence) on any br0kers that you're thinking that you might use. And of course different cost models are going to suit different folks: for example, fixed commissions (e.g. $X per trade, regardless of its volume) are going to be relatively cheaper, the larger the account that you're trading.

Quoting rockit
most people seem to be under the impression that MT is for free. None of it is for free - MetaQuotes is not a non-profit organisation. We all pay MQ big; the cost of MT (server and infrastructure) is passed onto the traders as a markup to cost of trading, hitting traders at small brokers proportionally more.
Sure, but I think it also depends somewhat on what you mean by "free". For example, I trialled eSignal at one point. From memory, the cost was something like $249/month for the charting facilities, and another $95 for live forex price feeds. And then I still had to open an account with a retail br0ker, and pay their transaction costs, on top of that.

I would respectfully argue that fixed charting/data costs hit the smaller trader more, not less, as it is relatively more difficult for him to absorb these costs into his trading profits. Hence IMHO newcomers are better off paying on a per-trade basis, e.g. with MT4, rather than being placed in a situation where it's necessary for them to overtrade/overleverage themselves just to meet 'external' charting/data overheads.
  • #9
  • Jul 21, 2015 1:15am Jul 21, 2015 1:15am
Quoting hanover
I would respectfully argue that fixed charting/data costs hit the smaller trader more, not less, as it is relatively more difficult for him to absorb these costs into his trading profits.
Sure, paying company X instead of company Y does not necessarily make things better. We would have to use free (OSS) infrastructure instead. Such does exist; i.e. LMAX's "disruptor" technology is made open source (OSS). It is said that FIX is the financial industry's standard, yet retail fx virtually does not come in touch with it; retail fx rather wants to sell you MT as "industry standard". There is OSS (and thus freedom of choice) in respect to FIX and cost would be near zero. Quotes come from LPs anyway (via FIX I guess). I think the thing is that most brokers are just sales teams; they purchase a ready made solution (i.e. Metatrader) and then they become "brokers"; while in fact they have no clue about the business itself (tech that is).
Return To Disorder
  • #10
  • Jul 21, 2015 1:24am Jul 21, 2015 1:24am
To answer the question: because almost all retail brokers offer it (exclusively).

To defend the platform a little bit: It's solid. I've never had a crash or any problems on any windows system due to faults in the application. Yes, it's programming language sucks, many brokers are crap, a lot of these MT4 bridges have a few problems like no limit orders and a lot of other quirks here and there.

edit:
@rockit
FIX has a big problem. It's not a real standard in the sense most would expect one. It basically defines the message structure, the content to open/close trades, modify orders ... is broker dependent.
  • #11
  • Edited 1:43am Jul 21, 2015 1:32am | Edited 1:43am
I use it, because the Android MT4 it is well made. It is using NDK ( C/C++ libraries) it is fast and is almost bug free.
While Oanda's Android platform... well has bugs in vital part.
Dukascopy's Android platform must be improved and so on.
Plus has a semi usefull reports. Oanda and Dukascopy's trade reports = trash. They are log dumps, is for debugging, not for traders.

For me it is enough a weekly, daily, 4h plain chart not need fancy indicators, maybe Pivot or an EMA or SMA, but is perfect a naked bar chart .

So MT4 mobile is fine for me and Android is with me.
I want to buy PATIENCE
  • #12
  • Jul 21, 2015 1:48am Jul 21, 2015 1:48am
Because it is a great platform. It contains all you need and is easy to use
Forex is a losers game.
  • #13
  • Jul 21, 2015 1:56am Jul 21, 2015 1:56am
* MT4 - web platform and it is not required to install any additional software to work with it.
* Customizable window of "Market Watch" is grouped by asset class and has an easy search function.
* Extended summary of the portfolio.
* Function "Click & Trade" - Market orders are executed by one or two mouse clicks.
* The ability to trade directly from the chart.
* Economic Calendar.
  • #14
  • Edited 2:13am Jul 21, 2015 2:03am | Edited 2:13am
Quoting trader121
Because it is a great platform. It contains all you need and is easy to use
It is not a great platform at all.
Doesn't contain what I need.
Not easy to use.
Thousands of EA, indicators, versions changing, not compatible with each other and so on.
Runs on windows, hard to make it on Mac/Linux . The cheap VPS servers made expensiver, because require windows..licence instead of CentOS(Linux)
JForex from Dukascopy is a lot better. Oanda missed his web launcher with browser plugin completly. Just need to install 2x JVM and maybe you are unable to launch they platform
VTTrader -is from FXCM as I remmeber- need to rename "Audio" folder to "something else", because no mute functionality ( last time when I have checked) and you can listen music, because he must do whistles loudly

I don't know why they don't want to employ Software developers who actually are traders and maybe are whiling to use what they have developed!
I want to buy PATIENCE
  • #15
  • Jul 21, 2015 2:33am Jul 21, 2015 2:33am
Impressed with your screens - Where is source for Recent Strength (Currency Strength Meter) and the Histogram CSM-1
  • #16
  • Jul 21, 2015 2:35am Jul 21, 2015 2:35am
Quoting matheszabi
I don't know why they don't want to employ Software developers who actually are traders and maybe are whiling to use what they have developed!
Exactly! It is apparent that this "industry" still trying to take all the advantage they can get over traders, in a way that they give traders only limited trading tools at hand. Same ol' shady business.
Return To Disorder
  • #17
  • Edited 4:53am Jul 21, 2015 3:52am | Edited 4:53am
Quoting PipC
Why do so many people use MT4?

Largely for the same reasons that so many bloggers use WordPress. I think the single biggest reason is that so many others use it: in other words, it's become self-fulfilling.

People try it because automation (rather than education and the development of interpretative skills, patience and discipline) appeals to the naive, and they're led - partly by what they read in forums - to believe that using it confers huge advantages not conferred by other trading platforms. This isn't true, clearly: most of the advantages claimed for MT4 apply equally to other, far superior platforms such as NinjaTrader.


Quoting PipC
for a manual trader like me, I don't see what the appeal is.

I agree with all your reservations about it, and wouldn't dream of using it. I know very few (if any) successful, professional traders who use it for trading.
  • #18
  • Jul 21, 2015 4:09am Jul 21, 2015 4:09am
Well let me tell you, as a manual, full timer, I've tried out dozens of alternatives, including Reuters Eikon (thorough, but clunky), Metastock Pro (ludicrousy clunky and ugly), Esignal (beautiful but plodding), Ninjatrader (counterintuitive, very heavy load), plus all the ones that come free from FXCM and Duka and you know what?

It's led me to a greater appreciation of how good Metatrader is in comparison.

I'd never dream of using it for trading and never have, but for charting, manually, it's accurate, lightweight, extendable but above all, it's really, really fast to work with. It doesn't have everything I need so I still keep a look out for better options but seriously I don't think people realise how good we've got it.
  • #19
  • Jul 21, 2015 4:52am Jul 21, 2015 4:52am
Quoting triphop
I'd never dream of using it for trading and never have, but for charting, manually, it's accurate, lightweight, extendable but above all, it's really, really fast to work with. It doesn't have everything I need ...

For sure: using it for charting is a very different (and far more understandable) proposition from using it for trading.
  • #20
  • Jul 21, 2015 5:06am Jul 21, 2015 5:06am
Guys forget about Fx, trade futures, much better regulated, lots of great platforms, if you are serious about trading dump MT4, find a descent broker and trade currency futures.
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