Sam Seiden's supply and demand - Does it work?

@Doc_kirbs you are where I want to be and am both working and trading my way there. Counting my parents and wife's Mom there are seven of us in my boat. It was only last year I stumbled onto sup/dem based trading. It was a famous author who's name I can't recall once said methods are many but principles are few. Understand the principles and you can successfully choose your method. What Sam teaches are principles. Principles that must be understood to ever beat this game. Even then it's still hard because the rules are stacked against us. This can be done as some in this forum have stated. It can even be taught by someone that doesn't trade as rightly argued by another. To the ones that say it can't be done....Can't never could do anything. When failure is not an option, then all sorts of things become possible.

My two cents to this is this...quit looking at charts for patters and quit looking at tools and quit listening to the news. It mostly serves to confuse the public. Start looking at charts trying to find the stacks of buy and sell orders. Take everything off the page and find the pivots then look left on all different time frames until you find the stack of orders. You won't find every stack at every turn. You will be shocked at how often you do find them but you do often have to dig them up by drilling down time frame by time frame. Then and only then will one begin to find the stacks of orders before price gets back to them.

It is difficult and it does take considerable effort to learn and understand the principles. It most certainly can be done though.

@Mingary to our friend Mingary 's point with all the junk out there he does deserve some proof of the power of our religion. I invite him to join Tradingview.com it's free and a place charts and ideas can easily be shared. You can find me there as pjameslamar too. There are several chat rooms. You will find me in gold, S&P and supply/demand based trading. I'll be glad to show you how this works in real time.

Sams ''core'' strategy works.

No ifs, buts or maybes!

Understand it and apply it, either the way he does it or as a filter to whatever you do.

Someone posted here about the ''principle''.

Sam teaches the principle of ''supply and demand''.

First time newbie poster here, but I am not new to using SS's S/D levels. I wanted to give you all my viewpoint on his methods and respond to some comments who think he may be a scam artist, he just wants to make money selling his courses, those institutional orders may not still be sitting at a previous S and D levels, etc etc. Some may totally disagree with me and that is fine.

First off, I can't count that high the amount of money <I don't want to, it would make me depressed LOL> I've spent on trading books, CD's, and the amount of time wasted on online webinars on trading, with the exception of Sam's free archived webinars. I wasn't particularly interested in trading forex, but I stumbled across the site of free webinars and figured, why the heck not, I'll watch them and maybe I'll learn something new. After he said this method works in all markets it made me even more interested. After I watched a couple of them I thought that this guy might be on to something and it makes sense to me. I then watched all of those free webinars and even watched many of them twice over to make sure I didn't miss anything.

The bottom line is, I use Sam's S/D as my #1 method. Trendlines, fib levels, and ascending or descending parallel channels <not really horizontal ones, they don't hold as often and it does make sense according to what Sam says that more often a price level is hit, the easier it is to bust thru those levels>I look at. These other secondary tools I look at is just some extra gravy. I'm looking for confluence, particularly if any of these also line up with a good Sam level. Overbought and oversold oscillators I rarely look at, because as you all know..they can stay overbought/oversold for quite some time.

Scam artist who just wants to make money selling his courses? I hardly think so. Do you think he would be one and freely put a bunch of his "free" webinars out there for people to learn off of? Don't think so. I have not spent one dime on his courses. I feel what I have learned from those free webinars, and others no doubt, gives a wealth of knowledge about his methods. Could I probably learn more that would be helpful to me if I spent money on his courses? Probably, but I don't feel the need to at this moment. A scam artist is one who wants to get your money right off the bat!

Now, can big money take their orders off the table from previous S/D levels? Of course they can. But look at it this way..why would they? It's not a matter of needing that money to put elsewhere. They have oodles and oodles of cash to use. Also it would be very surprising to me, that they themselves, don't factor in these S/D levels on a chart cause afterall, they have TA guru's working for them.

One last thing. I don't know if many of you look at levels on charts in the US stock market, and I'm asking this in the context what I have heard Sam say about levels going back even "further" in time are even "more" relevant to look at. The Nasdaq Composite is in a strong S zone right now and we're are going back 14 years! Have any of you doing this long enough, seen far back chart levels, maybe not 14 years, have a more relative effect on your forex charts?

@gillh1, can share what the level of your quote "If it is a turning trend point then to go one level higher than a pivot high (price is normally exhausted by then and lots of stops get triggered)" look like. Thanks!

NO!!!!!! Sam Seiden's supply and demand does NOT work. It's a scam , just like everything else he and his co-horts try to palm off.

Just today (Christmas 2014) I received an email from some clowns wanting me to buy their "FX Decoder Course" for $999 (regular price $1499 of course, I guess they're just showing some holiday cheer . Why anyone would fall for such baloney is beyond me.

Anyway, it is extremely clear to me how forex con-artists make their money - hint, it's not from trading. It's from selling worthless indicators, EAs that only blow up your account ( I have yet to meet a single person who's made money from EAs - they're all martingale systems, guaranteed to fail), or selling worthless, useless courses. It seems nowadays all a scammer needs to do is throw the words "supply and demand", "price action", or "order flow" onto their worthless garbage and idiots long in dollars and short in sense (catch the pun?) will come running to buy it. It's really pathetic, but I guess there are suckers born every day.

So far as Seiden's so-called "supply and demand zones" go, they don't exist. Period. End of story. Completely artificial charts using Gaussian statistics can be created using financial software packages that replicate his alleged zones. Think about that last statement, let it sink in - statistics can produce charts that look just like your forex charts! It's random. Chart patterns have zero predictive value. Technical analysis doesn't work - that why your indicators and EAs don't work.
That's why the sooner you give up TA, the better.

Your Quote:

So far as Seiden's so-called "supply and demand zones" go, they don't exist. Period. End of story. Completely artificial charts using Gaussian statistics can be created using financial software packages that replicate his alleged zones. Think about that last statement, let it sink in - statistics can produce charts that look just like your forex charts! It's random. Chart patterns have zero predictive value. Technical analysis doesn't work - that why your indicators and EAs don't work. That's why the sooner you give up TA, the better.[/quote]

So the S/R lines on my chart below are completely useless? Why did price turn @ these levels? Are all these turns just completely random & nothing to do with TA?

If I handed you my electrical meter & asked you to tell me why the range isn't working you probably couldn't tell me unless you know how to troubleshoot or how to use the meter. I could tell you why it's not working because I know how to use a meter & 22 years of electrical experience gives me the knowledge to figure it out. Same applies to TA. If you don't know how to read it or don't have enough experience using it then you probably can't figure it out.

So the S/R lines on my chart below are completely useless? Why did price turn @ these levels? Are all these turns just completely random & nothing to do with TA? If. {image}[/quote]

Yes they are.
On any chart you can always draw the lines where they work and omit to draw the lines in the dozens of other places where they don't work.

Where did I say TA or S/R lines ALWAYS work? Indicators don't ALWAYS work. If you think the turn points on my charts are completely random & had nothing to do with turning at previous S/R, then we just disagree.

This question is easy to settle. One could, for example, sum the number of times the previous candles along the overall price history have passed through every say 1-pip range. If there are discernible (statistically significant) patterns in this price vs number of occurences plot, then I would say that the support/resistance approach has merit. In other words even though they do not work all the time, they do signal a zone where it is more likely that there would be a price bounce.

From my experience of looking at the chart, this seems to be the case. There do exist psychological(?) levels that get broken less frequently (and when it does, it typically happens quite violently) and price gets rejected from more often.

Cheers,
k

TA is 100% objective. What are you going to do with your TA is subjective though. Nobody can't disagree with the fact that there is a support or resistance at a particular lvl: however decision about buying the support or selling the breakout of this support belongs to the trader. The decision about taking in consideration this support or not belongs to the trader too.

That's why some people can make money with a specific strategy while others just can't. Subjective part involves experience and market dynamics comprehension. If you've been trading for a while and still trying to make a choice between Fib levels and Chart patterns you should take a few moments to think about your trading.

Supply and demand, and support and resistance levels are are very easy to see with hindsight. The problem is very few people can actually trade these levels live, because they do not understand what they represent. And if you you don't understand what the chart is telling you, how can you trade successfully.

How many times have you seen an SR level work, and think to yourself shit i could have traded that, so the next time you see it, you trade it, and guess what, it don't work.

To be a successful trader you have to understand what is happening on the chart and why, but very few people actually do. Whether you are trading SR, SD, or anything else, you can only be successful if you can read what the chart is telling you.

Just went back a reviewed some posts.


Poster pjameslamer has understood how ''Where are the buyers, where are the sellers'' Sam Seiden style is done.

''My two cents to this is this...quit looking at charts for patters and quit looking at tools and quit listening to the news. It mostly serves to confuse the public. Start looking at charts trying to find the stacks of buy and sell orders. Take everything off the page and find the pivots then look left on all different time frames until you find the stack of orders. You won't find every stack at every turn. You will be shocked at how often you do find them but you do often have to dig them up by drilling down time frame by time frame. Then and only then will one begin to find the stacks of orders before price gets back to them.''

Sams FREE videos have all the info you need to understand what is really happening in the markets.

He spends an hour or two in the morning trading the New York open, then does the education because he needs something to do. If you have solved your financial problems and have retired early...you will understand what I am talking about.

Sam - my teacher and (after 1 month with practice) I know that it works

As gravitst said "People put the name supply and demand" on their item, and people believe that it is worth taking a look at. Yet, unlike most of the clowns who post freely here would suggest that understanding supply and demand trading is the key to forex. What a person calls supply and demand, may be called something else, but one thing remains the same. No matter what you call the zone, you still have to make a choice to BUY, OR SELL.

Even if in forex we had market depth, as we do in stocks (level III) simply knowing how many lots are waiting to be sold or bought in an area doesn't give you 1 bit of an advantage. As those lots can be fluff to create an artificial representation of what the market will do next. For those of you who trade stocks, you know that Level II allows you to see the name of the Market maker, and the amount of shares being sold. Yet, depending on the broker you have, you can make 6 different orders, in which you select the
market maker who will represent your order. The person million miles away will say "Hey look at stock xyz IT HAS ALOT OF SUPPORT, LOOK AT THE MARKET MAKERS ON THE BID", but little does he know that those 6 market makers total up to less then 1000usd in bids.

I said that to say this. The only thing you need to do is understand what an "Extension", "reversal", and "accumulation" is. Once you understand those terms and how they relate to one another, not only will you see that the higher TF is B.S. but also terms like over bought and over sold, and all those silly lines that these so called "Gurus" draw on their charts are all useless.


P.S. also daily pivots are key, because that is where the price makes clean reverses, and accumulate at.

nomadic123

Sam, is an expert in forex education. In fact, he is the director of forex education at Online Trading Academy, so if he says you need it, then brother you need it. Supply and Demand levels are what forex trading is all about.

I'm in the three day seminar at OTA. I'm thinking about spending money on the other classes but I'm a little skeptical. I've always been told if it's too good to be true it probably isn't. The numbers below were given to us today by our instructor and are the results of SS past 14 months. Starting in November the number on the left was a positive trade and the one on the right was a negative trade. With numbers like this why do any research on your own- just follow SS. I asked the instructor the same question and he stumbled for an answer saying he does follow some of his picks but not all.

38-9 Nov.
58-9
109-22
111-23 Majority are 3-1 or better!
90-19
55-7
83-12 Risking 100 per trade = 71,034 after 14 months
126-32 Risking 300 per trade = 213,000 after 14 months
93-19
97-26
108-47
77-24
84-15
95-24
97-16
174-19{C}

Oh boy you are on the wrong track. Totally !

You do not have a slighest knowhow of what the supply and demand really means. That is why you do not know it works in everything not only on Fx markets.

Are you really trying to say that all the prices on your local car dealer are random ?
What is it what makes your local car dealer to put $18000 price tag to a Jeep Grand Cherokee ?

Think about it.

Yes.

Because the buyers are willing to buy that vehicle on that price but not much higher. There is a demand for that level. As long as the price lies on that level it creates an area: Demand Zone.

Why the price is not get any lower ?

If it is then the car dealer cannot make a buck because there is also the car manufacturer who is in the game and wants something. There is of course other things which makes the price tag such a competition but this was just a one example.

So,

it is the very same thing with financial insturments such currencies. There is allways buyers and sellers who are trading against each other. When they are fighting the correct value for the product it creates supply and demans lines WHICH CAN BE SEEN CLEARLY when you put the price history to your chart.

Period.

The quesiton is what you are going to do with this information ?

---

For me it sounds you have been trying hard to get S&D zones to work in your trading but no success. You have to see that this is not a problem of the S&D it is a problem of YOU.

People very very often asks things like "will this system work on real money" or "have you ever heard anybody making money out of this system". There is only one right answer for them all:

YES the system will make money IN THE RIGHT HANDS.

To get success in this business you only need 2 simple things to happen: buy lower, sell higher (no matter are you buying or short selling). But to achieve this simple state you have to know what you are doing. You can choose any method found in the market and YOU WILL MAKE MONEY CONSISTENTLY, but if you are not good enough you are not !

Period.

As the all hundreds other methods the pure S/D is not a system it is a knowledge what you use in your own trading system.

Thanks for your comments but I maintain what I said.
It's all hindsight and especially:

pareidolia ==> a basic human instinct to see patterns where none exist

So the S/R lines on my chart below are completely useless? Why did price turn @ these levels? Are all these turns just completely random & nothing to do with TA? If I handed you my electrical meter & asked you to tell me why the range isn't working you probably couldn't tell me unless you know how to troubleshoot or how to use the meter. I could tell you why it's not working because I know how to use a meter & 22 years of electrical experience gives me the knowledge to figure it out. Same applies to TA. If you don't know how to read it or don't have enough experience using it then you probably can't figure it out. {image}[/quote]


I would hate to repeat myself but :

pareidolia ==> a basic human instinct to see patterns where none exist

I tested supply and demand, support and resistance.

My results suggest neither work.

In fact if anything it is better to go long at resistance and supply, and short at support and demand... There is a very small theoretical edge in doing so.

End of the day, money is made with the trend