Brokers chasing you for negative account balance

Alpari just sent out a mass mailing confirming account balances to people and announcing that CCI legal will now be in contact with customers shortly. I have formed a skype group of several people in the same situation. If anyone has the same problem and would like to join, feel free to PM me.

Hi,

Thanks for your email message.

same thing has happened to me.

What to do ? If we can do anything that is.

A negative balance ,,,,well it's a negative balance,,,,, however I want to question the amount of the negative balance.

Since one incident where Alpari refused to honour a stop that I had placed on a trade,,, this trade was in profit and I put a stop on it so that it remained in profit as I was going to be busy with other things for a few days, for example the stop was placed at +£10.00, however when returning to trade this trade it had been stopped in the negative, lets just say - £5.00. I expressed my concern about this to them and they said that if no one was trading at that particular price then the trade would be stopped on the next price someone wanted to buy or sell at. This was sort of unbelievable as we are taking about trillions of pounds a week being traded with 100,000's of traders worldwide,,,, and no one was trading at the price I was wanting to top at,,,,really,,,ahhhhhh no.
Bullshit express came and went.

So every since then I never put stops on as it seemed a waste of time and evidence sort of proved that.

My concern is that on the day of the swiss being found to be bloody liars why did Alpari systems stop my trades at - £2,860, why not at ZERO or - £50 or - £100?
Even more terrifying,,,,,,,what would now be happening if their systems had not caught up for another 5 or 10 minutes, what then,
would my - £2860 be - £120,000.00, how would that be justified?
Seems to me, the amount of negative monies owed have been determined by a machine and when it was able to catch up.

Your Views?

You all seen the behaviour by IG index....one of the few brokers chasing negative balances? They saved their bacon and fed the rest of the clients to the lions

IG Accused of prioritising their trades before EURCHF clients

I got the the mail as well. I live in Asia . What do you think I should do?

I think you cannot have negative balance since if your equity reach stop out level, your account must be closed. Or in volatile situations as CHF event?

Guys,

There are some discrepancies with the policies of Pepperstone on the Negative Balance Protection.

On their website, it is CLEARLY stated that they offer Negative Balance Protection, and Automated Risk Management system. (screenshot from their website, just in case they decide to remove it http://oi60.tinypic.com/2j1v9rm.jpg). The fact, however, is they don't offer Negative Balance Protection. I have a negative balance with them, not much, 174$, but the contradiction is really what upsets me. So Marketing is all that they have.

Below is their chat transcript:

Start Time:
06/18/2015 22:00:52
End Time:
06/18/2015 22:19:09
Operators:
Pepperstone Client Support


Transcripts:
If you do not want to wait, please click here to leave us a message.
Operator Pepperstone Client Support has joined the chat.
[07:00:54]
Pepperstone Client Support: Hi there, welcome to Pepperstone. How may we help you today?
[07:00:59]
XXXX: hi, account 123456789
[07:01:08]
XXXX: I ahve a negative balance of 174 EUR
[07:01:14]
XXXX: can you please adjust it to 0 ?
[07:01:39]
Pepperstone Client Support: You will need to send us an email to [email protected] and make the request. normally we require clients to pay back negative balances
[07:01:53]
XXXX: wow
[07:01:54]
Pepperstone Client Support: but we can work with you to wipe it out, especially if you plan
[07:01:54]
XXXX: https://pepperstone.com/trading-acco...s-standard.php
[07:01:56]
Pepperstone Client Support: on funding again
[07:02:19]
XXXX: it says on your website - negative balance protection
[07:02:25]
Pepperstone Client Support: yea thats for the margin call feature with the auto close out
[07:02:37]
Pepperstone Client Support: but in rare instances when negative balance occurs, we require pay back
[07:02:41]
XXXX: nice marketing, I will switch to another broker then
[07:03:25]
XXXX: in rare ? I can't imagine what could happens if I was long on eurchf 15th of January
[07:04:11]
Pepperstone Client Support: Yes, those clients were required to pay back. But we did work with many people ... those who deposited again we matched their deposit, which in many cases wiped out their negative balance
[07:04:23]
Pepperstone Client Support: since many people negative balance wasnt in the thousands
[07:04:37]
XXXX: did you ask all your clients to pay back after 15th ? You are market maker, so it's kind of you profit from both sides, clients money and then again you ask clients to refund because of negative balance
[07:04:45]
Pepperstone Client Support: No, we dont make what you lose, which is why
[07:04:49]
Pepperstone Client Support: we must ask you to pay back the negative
[07:05:00]
Pepperstone Client Support: we end up owing our liquidity providers when they reconcile
[07:05:06]
Pepperstone Client Support: the profit.loss
[07:05:09]
Pepperstone Client Support: then they see $100 missing
[07:05:19]
Pepperstone Client Support: either way pay them out of our pocket, or we ask you
[07:05:20]
Pepperstone Client Support: so, we ask you since its your loss
[07:05:27]
XXXX: but you said that you asked them to pay back , buuut you worked with many people..... if deposit - no pay back?
[07:05:50]
Pepperstone Client Support: Right, no pay back. You pay back. The EURCHF case was rare, so in good faith
[07:05:54]
Pepperstone Client Support: we spent money to keep people happy
[07:05:58]
Pepperstone Client Support: so if you were negative 100
[07:06:01]
Pepperstone Client Support: and you deposit 100
[07:06:05]
Pepperstone Client Support: then we gave you 100 back
[07:06:07]
Pepperstone Client Support: so you have 100 balance
[07:06:16]
Pepperstone Client Support: so we paid back with our money and took the hit
[07:06:20]
XXXX: and if it was 100.000 ?
[07:06:25]
XXXX: what would you do?
[07:06:36]
Pepperstone Client Support: I dont know if we had someone with that much. i mean
[07:06:38]
Pepperstone Client Support: if you have negative 100
[07:06:41]
Pepperstone Client Support: you didnt have 100,000 in your account
[07:06:43]
XXXX: on cTrader - you are market maker, you can ask your dealing desk
[07:06:45]
Pepperstone Client Support: you know what i mean?
[07:07:03]
Pepperstone Client Support: so if it was 100,000, then probably not
[07:07:07]
XXXX: it depends on what price you closed eurchf that day
[07:07:08]
Pepperstone Client Support: that would be too much to credit back
[07:07:45]
XXXX: ok, anyway I see your point
[07:07:58]
Pepperstone Client Support: So please keep in mind, when you trade with Pepperstone, the fact
[07:08:08]
Pepperstone Client Support: we are STP required us to ask you for money back
[07:08:09]
Pepperstone Client Support: on negative
[07:08:25]
Pepperstone Client Support: or we will just end up paying on your behalf and make no money in the end
[07:08:25]
Pepperstone Client Support: how much did you pay in commission?
[07:08:33]
Pepperstone Client Support: so if you paid us say $50 in commission
[07:08:36]
Pepperstone Client Support: then we have to cover your $100
[07:08:41]
Pepperstone Client Support: we just lost money on you overall
[07:08:46]
Pepperstone Client Support: we would be out of business quicklty
[07:08:51]
Pepperstone Client Support: quickly*
[07:09:16]
XXXX: I will keep in mind what you just said and I will send a screenshot from your website to ASIC about NBP
[07:09:36]
Pepperstone Client Support: Ok, no one can stop you on doing what you want to do. All i can tell you is how we do things.
[07:10:50]
XXXX: sure, thanks a lot. But when you say " Negative balance protection, automated Risk Management System " - it should meant what it is. And not that it is working only on auto close out.
[07:11:13]
Pepperstone Client Support: I will pass on your senitment to our directors. I am sorry if there
[07:11:14]
Pepperstone Client Support: was confusion
[07:11:17]
Pepperstone Client Support: but as I said before
[07:11:21]
Pepperstone Client Support: if you want to trade again, our audit team
[07:11:27]
XXXX: with this kind of marketing - you will be out of business quicker btw
[07:11:30]
Pepperstone Client Support: is pretty good at working with people and going good faith credits
[07:11:34]
Pepperstone Client Support: to keep people happy
[07:11:44]
Pepperstone Client Support: so in your scenario, given this was a confusion based on that line on websie
[07:11:47]
Pepperstone Client Support: website
[07:11:55]
Yan: of course, market maker always can refund
[07:11:55]
Pepperstone Client Support: i tend to think they will work with you on the negatiove balance, so we take the hit
[07:11:57]
Pepperstone Client Support: to keep you around
[07:12:00]
XXXX: thanks anyway
[07:12:03]
Pepperstone Client Support: ok thanks good bye
[07:12:38]
XXXX: I see, you are kind of those good people that taking all the hit on you but reimburse your clients...yeah.
[07:12:40]
XXXX: cheers
The transcript will be sent to [email protected]
The visitor has left the chat.
The chat is ended.



I really think that this deserves to be notified to ASIC.

And on another note, if you have a negative balance, and you match it with your new deposit, then they will forgive the negative balance... Come on... That is ridiculous. I am disappointed with them.

Hi Guys,

I've been trying to get a hold of people who are in the same situation as me - basically Alpari/KMPG/CCI chasing me for a negative balance !

I have received a number of emails from these guys now, some generic, some very specific to me with a confirmed negative balance (from their side only). I have not agreed to any of their data, and said that I do not consent to any of their rules, regulations, or calculations with regards my so called debt. I do not see it as debt at all - I will not be held responsible for the incompetence of alapri.

My account only had £300 in with a trade for EURCHF, now I'm told that I owe £18,000 !!!

Is anyone else in the same boat...? receiving similar emails - can we get together and share knowledge...?

I have been trying to search google for the past few months, and only recently come up with a link that some user had put up on 'ForexLive' talking about the situation and asking to get in touch - I couldn;t see where I could PM them, and so subscribed to 'DISQUS' to enter a reply - I haven't heard a reply, but got emailed to say that the user added another comment on another string which pointing me in this direction (forex factory). so just joined, and typed this. !

Please get in touch is you are experiencing similar to me.....

Thanks,

Hi! I'm a new member ... i've read your comment. I have a little negative account with alpari ( more or less 1030 gbp). They write me 2 emails too . I've not reply, they dont give me the closing prices and i cannot verify ...
Fortunately this is a little negative account but this not means that i agree with them and i agree to pay !!
Until now they contact me only by mail, and i dont want to reply them ... They have to contact me in another way, in a legal one if they want i consider ther request ! ... Too easily write a mail .... may be i never read it !
This situation is incredible .... it's a fault of Alpari for all this !
Clearly they are trying to have back as money as possible .... I had i micro account , and i am not sure it was an ECN account ... i think they should have been to the other side !
It's a shame ! And i am happy that a broker like Alpari went bankrupt !!

I believe traders and Alpari are both at fault, including myself, even when I had my stops in place. It was a risky trade. I had the feeling of danger because the last 3 days before the big day the pair was seemingly under pressure. I thought Alpari would still execute thinking that it can see supply and demand better than me and would limit traders if the trade was risky. The second thing is what really happened and that is what makes me uncertain of who was at fault. Coming up with an explanation of what happened after 5 months is not credible to me. So the question is wether the reasoning of cci in front of the court would stand. i just dont have the time to check all the details but what if cci lose the case against me? I think it is best to wait and see the result of the first few cases but just think of what happens if cci lose? We all would sue cci for a sure gain. Would they risk a lawsuit? I dont answer them not because I dont want to take responsibility for my fault but because I am not entirely sure of what happened and why it happened that way. I dont want to sue cci for $4-5k just for the same reason, it is not worth and the details of execution are all with alpari, I cant support my case. So i swallow the loss and move on. Cci can sue me but i think their case is not strong after thinking and reading at cmc-markets-scams-blogspot notes and ff. See i dont hate Alpari, i liked them and pity them and even miss them, but i do think they made a fatal mistake with risk management and likely their system just failed at crucial moments. But honestly i cant be smart here but the amount of money called debt would deserve a detailed explanation, telling me what exactly happened and why. Not just an email stating i owe them few thousand pounds. Later on i received an email that i can enter via a site and see the statement. I did not bother to check because i need details not a statement of at what levels my trades were closed. They should state their case and make me understand why i would lose the case on court. I wouldnt take it as an offence, i would pay if the case sounds strong. I also believe that they would sue few people in the beginning to test their argument and only if they win will go for the rest. Otherwise, they could lose their shirt by paying all the lawyers in multiple countries, just think of how long these cases would drag.. So i have nothing against cci too but please cci if you read this, present us your case before taking legal action because if i am at fault i will pay.

Just a slightly lateral thought-which on the face of it i'm sure may be considered as lunacy at first glance, but as no-one seems to have suggested it, I'll put it out there, and take the abuse! Does anyone know how many clients Alpari had 100.000 ish?. What if all clients both positive and negative stuck in £100-200 each, there's enough to buy it as a cooperative, wipe the negatives, redistribute to the positives. yeah I know bonkers-in fact I can already hear muffled laughter and hot chocolate coming out of peoples noses, BUT just bear in mind that it has been done successfully before with other types of companies.

i am not entirely sure of what you mean but Alpari is no more and we are now clients of cci. Checked my documents yesterday on the client portal, there is nothing on my trades, only the amount is indicated. There is nothing to talk about until details of trades become available. Waste of bytes, no way to pay.

Hi

i think any one should understand the risk of trading it happened with me with MB trading before and i payed .

so i advice who have negative balance to pay it is better and then establish a connection with a broker that give protection from negative balance or guaranteed stop loss

like IG .

i had a small negative balance with roboforex and many times i had it but they reset the account and never asked for it .

i can recommend roboforex only .

all have a nice day

Me too Rewand ! I try today to see my account details but they show me only the little amount i have (what they think ) to pay ... Ridicolous !
I written to them that if they dont show me my statement details with all the closing prices there is no way i will pay them ... I await their reply...

They did reply to me today and sent all documents including transaction details. Now it starts to become more interesting. Well, I have to review all details.
Orabi, the issue here is not the negative balance, I agree with paying for a loss but this case is not that obvious. I am not sure of this loss purely coming from my mistake. So it is more about clarifying what happened and who made what mistakes and who has to bear what consequences. I am not investigating just because I do not want to pay.

I agree with you ! In my case i had a little trade with eurchf , 0,1 lots, and an hedging with eur usd .
When the crash happened, inusually i was in front of my pc (i was not at work, i was at home sick) and i saw that they didnt take my sl @ 1.1950 (in my opinion there was the possibility to get out at that level before the crash ... ) and they closed only trades long on eur usd and let opened the other short .... This was clearly their fault , their mistake , not my fault or my mistake
Now i await their answer in order to reply them clearly ! (i think they closed the short on eur usd on a price higher that the one long ! Instead of the same price ! This is a cheat !)
But let me see their answer

From What can you do if you don't think you should pay back a debt:
Complain to the credit lender,
Complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) (I am in UK),

I have answered letter from CCI with complaint, the response was "your comments has been noted on file".
Next step I am going to complain to Financial Ombudsman.

So with help of those more educated in the field here
Can we formulate legally robust text of complaint here for everyone to use?

Today i have sent to CCI another mail because they still did't reply to me ! (after three days from the first one ) ...
I told them that if they will not give me my statement in details (i have never received one until now) in order to know the closing prices i will not pay any money ! because i will not owe them nothing !!

Lazzar, statement you will receive soon. But it will not clarify what happened during those crucial momenta. Just checked kpmg's report on chf evaluation and honestly I find it difficult to relate it to my trades, same holds true with the 1M chart of Alpari. So a statement will not help you much.

Gghjmb, this is exactly what some of my countrymen thought of, the Financial Ombudsman should be able to provide guidance on the issue, from the consumer point of view and from the process point of view. Cci may not even be compliant with all their claims. I still have not received any argument that I can accept, although I am open to their explanations.

Still no reply ... This behavior by CCI let me free to not pay ... Clearly, if they dont show me the statement and give me some explanations , sure i wont pay !
I had a stop loss on eurchf at 1.1950 ... the 1 minute alpari chart showed that the price went down until 1.1920 and after alpari wasnt able to price the currency ... so , in my opinion, they could stop that trade and not let it go down ....
I had also an hedging on eurusd, and i dont know if they closed it in the right way
May be that they dont answer me for my little negative account ... may be they focus on other bigger negative balances ...