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Prosperous mindset: relax & rise over emotions, own the game

  • #21
  • May 7, 2015 7:28am May 7, 2015 7:28am
Quoting edgartan
nice trade plukin, i have this issue now how you could identify this emotion before it take control your mind, this is where im failing,
Thanks. It's about training your awareness to realize the state you are in. Your body will tell you, actually it's already telling you. Your breath is already telling you. It just takes a practise to realize and notice all the signals that are there for you.

So practice, start now and observe your current state. Are you relaxed? Are you somewhat tightened? Maybe just somewhere in your body? What's your body showing you? Is your breath deep? Is your breath calm? Is you breath rather quick or shallow? Observe, explore, learn..and over time you'll find out where you are open & receptive and also when you are rather shutting down and being ran by emotions and thus being more prone to make some action that would cost you.

Have you ever windsurfed or something that requires tuning into something that might not be obvious to an "untrained eye"? You have to learn where the wind blows and when the wind is about to turn or stop blowing and you learn by practice. And at times you do a mistake and will fall as you hit a place with no wind or the wind turns agains you. You learn an experience eventhough you likely won't be able to tell exactly at that moment what is it that you learned. Over time, with more experiences you find out the signs of wind shifting. In windsurfing they say it's some 200 falls before you get enough experience, so you better enjoy the process!

Same here, learning by mistake. Especially if you are in this game for a while and you potencially learned & got used to some not really profitable habits.

Btw as long as you believe that "Taming Your Demon Is HARD" it will be. So how about giving him a hug and seeing him as best friend from now on? Cause he is..just as real friend would want the best out of you and nothing less then. Might be challenging at times, even a lot, you might want to call him names, I know I did, at still might be at times..but you'll thank him at some point for you'll be grateful for the shift he helped you with.
Markets wispers, just tune in.
  • #22
  • May 7, 2015 1:17pm May 7, 2015 1:17pm
Quoting hanover
{quote} Lukin, One of my favorite chapters in Trading in the Zone is the one where Mr Douglas talks about blackjack, and how it's possible for the casino to win over time, while the outcome of every hand is nonetheless random. It is possible, as the author explains, because the game rules provide the casino with a mathematical edge, and that over a large enough number of hands, the P/L will necessarily gravitate toward this expectancy value..
David,

I'd say that you are too much into the analytics but whatever works for you is fine.
I sense there's always some uncertainty that one just gotta accept. And only our unwillingness to accept that leads to looking for an edge rather too much, trying to be sure enough and to not feel the uncomfortable uncertainty, instead of just surrendering to the truth. That is the knowing one already has an edge. Which is our ability to perceive openly what's going on in any given moment. Being in the flow. Instead of trying hard to find an edge and then play the edge..while actually being still rather uncertain whether it's really an edge and whether it's going to be an edge in the future. After all, traders trading long enough knows that market changes and what worked before might not work any more. Doh! The uncomfortable uncertainty again!

Even with the casino's edge. I'd say there are individuals, let's call them "unlucky" who might go bancrupt even operating a casino. "Luckily" attracting too much winners, running out of money..and then not being able to raise enough money to keep the light on. And thus the edge wouldn't have time to work out. Next to impossible? Yep, but you just can't rule that out no matter the odds. Just pointing out there's always some reason to uncertainty..and the sooner one accepts that, the better.

Btw when I write about "objective analysis" I mean from your point of view, that's only what matters. Other traders are other traders and have their priorities and agenda. After all the trader himself makes the decision whether there's a trade or not. But as Mark Douglas pointed out by not accepting the market randomness and thus the uncertainty of any given trade one is basically influenced by a fear and thus susceptible to seeing something else then the market is trully presenting. And only later when the emotions are gone..finds out.."how come I didn't see this?!" etc. But again.. What's the Buggyman in the closet? Since you didn't answer I can only guess. Hopefully you did answer to yourself and just didn't want to share, then it's great. So.. What's at stake? What would it matter if you would loose it all? Would that actually affect your life? Might seems so..but is that actually true? For if not..there's nothing to worry about. You are good no matter what. And you can relax, accepting that you don't know what's going to happen next yet you don't need to know and still be profitable.. Cause ultimately there isn't really a reason for any fear. It's perfectly OK to perceive it but there's no reason to let it influence our choices & our decisions. Fear is not to be feared. And without fearing a fear we can find peace & relax even in the face of uncertainty.
Markets wispers, just tune in.
  • #23
  • May 15, 2015 1:12pm May 15, 2015 1:12pm
Rather wild ridish couple weeks but walking my talk all the way and it pays off. Slaughtered my equity quite a lot
after being at highs again for some time..and of course wondered what's going on and why do I can grow the equity rather easily from bottom and then as easily screw it when I get to the top..

Realized there were two traders "present". One profitable, profesional, focused who just does what he should to take just the best setups and let it play itself.

The other is/was the "dangerous" one. Being high is rather big for me so I got cought more then I would like too..but there is a shift in my attitude & trading and that's great. Getting more relaxed & patient. Will see what happens next time as I'll experience that being_on_top_of_the_world state again as things just work out even better then one would expect.. Wondering how quickly I'll be able to spot that danger. Soon enough? Will see.

Loving them lessons. Trading really is an amazing journey and I am glad I kept going no matter what. And it was a wild ride..seemingly without a light at the end of tunnel.

So, guys..be honest, be brutally honest with yourself. And enjoy the game of exploration who you are, where you are, why you are & why you do what you do. And ask questions whenever it seems like you are hitting a wall. Questions open our minds and go beyond our known, seemingly safe "world". And there it is where we get in harmony with ourselves at the deepest level thus making this trading journey easier, smoother & more profitable. And you'll be surprised what opens up for you. I am..and it's just awsome.
Markets wispers, just tune in.
  • #24
  • May 16, 2015 1:23am May 16, 2015 1:23am
Nice thread.Yes to me psychology is everything.
I am relaxed and in control and make clear decisions when to trade.Best thing I learned is to Wait for good set up.
Predatory Animals do this because if they don't do it well they will perish.Waiting right time to attack is crucial.Lion does not just run up to a buffalo and chase it away.They plan the attack and strike at most opportune time.
Nature is my best trading teacher.How many times have we asked ourselves "why I did not sell the Euro when it was at 1.38" when clear fundamentals pointed severe deprecation and many examples like that or "why did we exit the trade so early when we could of added more and build a massive profitable trade."
These questions are crucial to examine.3years ego I was unsure If I can make it in this business but now I know I can and have ZERO fear.
I believe by 5th year something profound clicks in the brain and you just get better reading the markets.To me there is no substitute for experience and that includes all errors.
What I like to add is this.
Be passionate about trading and devote yourself to it.Love it and stop beating yourself for errors and just try to get better and work on weaknesses.Think of athletes shooting baskets everyday until it becomes automatic.They shoot from foul line without even blinking.That takes thousands of shots and there is no shortcut.Love it and immerse yourself and things will reveal themselves.
regards
In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #25
  • May 21, 2015 12:30pm May 21, 2015 12:30pm
Quoting Davit
.I believe by 5th year something profound clicks in the brain and you just get better reading the markets.To me there is no substitute for experience and that includes all errors. What I like to add is this. Be passionate about trading and devote yourself to it.Love it and stop beating yourself for errors and just try to get better and work on weaknesses.Think of athletes shooting baskets everyday until it becomes automatic.They shoot from foul line without even blinking.That takes thousands of shots and there is no shortcut.Love it...
My take is it takes how long it takes, in that aspect we are all unique. Somebody shifts that under a year, somebody needs even more.

So however long it takes you it's OK. Accept that, accept where you are right now and enjoy the journey, Davit is spot on here. That's the reason we started trading in the first place right? Cause something pulled us towards it.

So traders..how about a little assignment? It takes you just 5-10minutes and it's well worth it.

Why did you started trading?
What was your original target?
What's your reality/ your results?
Is there a difference? (Between were you are and where you wanna be)
What comes up when you see that difference?

Whatever comes up, write it down, say it out loud..simply acknowledge it.
It might be painful but it doesn't define you, it's just a result of who you are now and likely a momentum of the past.
But it's not you, it's not who you trully are. So, no worries if it gets little uncomfortable..it's OK, no big deal. Just an awareness that helps you shift what is and create what you so desire.
And the only thing needed is just a little bit of honesty, acknowledgement & acceptance of where & who you are right now.

And if you really wanna live your dreams commit to asking these and other questions regularly. Questions open us up. And you'll notice a shift.
Markets wispers, just tune in.
  • #26
  • May 21, 2015 12:47pm May 21, 2015 12:47pm
Quoting plukin
{quote} My take is it takes how long it takes, in that aspect we are all unique. Somebody shifts that under a year, somebody needs even more. So however long it takes you it's OK. Accept that, accept where you are right now and enjoy the journey, Davit is spot on here. That's the reason we started trading in the first place right? Cause something pulled us towards it. So traders..how about a little assignment? It takes you just 5-10minutes and it's well worth it. Why did you started trading? What was your original target? What's your reality/ your...
You never control your emotions or yourself, because the free will is an illusion.
  • #27
  • May 21, 2015 1:27pm May 21, 2015 1:27pm
Quoting mvp77
{quote} You never control your emotions or yourself, because the free will is an illusion.
What's your point? Btw did I mention any of that?
I am not into controlling anything, flow of the moment can't really be controlled only received & allowed.
Markets wispers, just tune in.
  • #28
  • May 21, 2015 9:47pm May 21, 2015 9:47pm
Quoting plukin
Slaughtered my equity quite a lot after being at highs again for some time..and of course wondered what's going on and why do I can grow the equity rather easily from bottom and then as easily screw it when I get to the top..
this is was always happen to me LOL, im now in learning to indetify the emotion that shut my brain before it happens
Closer To Dream
  • #29
  • May 22, 2015 4:00am May 22, 2015 4:00am
Quoting edgartan
{quote} this is was always happen to me LOL, im now in learning to indetify the emotion that shut my brain before it happens
My take is that nearing the highs I get elated cause it "finaly" works as it should and that's still rather new experience in my world, not only trading related. As such I got carried away by that in the past. Just because something "finaly" f-king worked! Being aware of that reaching this elated state again I am more concious about it and as such I should be able to react in better way. Will see when I get there.

Adding more joy & playfulness into all this serious trading business & discipline & rules of engagements etc is the way to go for me. And enjoying trading doesn't mean doing stupid unprofitable trades just for some thrill at all.

Btw edgartan, you signature says "I will Master My Self". Great intention, just wondering..When? How about acknowledging you are already the real deal & just getting better now?
Markets wispers, just tune in.
  • #30
  • May 22, 2015 4:38am May 22, 2015 4:38am
Quoting plukin
How about acknowledging you are already the real deal & just getting better now?

the problem with "the real deal" for me it always the first step for blowing my tiny account,

as for getting better i do see much improvement from my result,

from blowing my account in just 1 week, now im blowing my account in 2 weeks, LOL yes im still in losing side, but hey if i can make my account survive even just for 1 day longer for me its improvement,
Closer To Dream
  • #31
  • May 22, 2015 4:54am May 22, 2015 4:54am
Quoting edgartan
{quote} the problem with "the real deal" for me it always the first step for blowing my tiny account, as for getting better i do see much improvement from my result, from blowing my account in just 1 week, now im blowing my account in 2 weeks, LOL yes im still in losing side, but hey if i can make my account survive even just for 1 day longer for me its improvement,
The reason I wrote that is I myself was after making it big so I can then be the real deal & "thus" feel great. It doesn't work this way. The reality is just a mirror of us, so reality just reflects who I am. If I am "sure" I suck..I just can't make it and I also can't feel great. Cause I suck right? And sucking doesn't feel great at all! Does it make sense? There's different state between these two.

So I was guided to actually be the real deal already and thus feel great already..and so I can actually experience that in real life. And I realized that neither reality nor experiences defines who I am and that I & everybody already is everything we ever wanted to be or have. At times it's still like "are you nuts? who do you think you are? that's just BS..look at your reality" and I no longer fight that, I accept that, but I know that it's nothing but a story and it ain't true.

Once you start noticing the reality shifting cause you shifted it within..you'll never look back.

Would you ever choose to break a mirror just because you don't like what you are seeing?

It ain't the fault of a mirror, it's just mirroring you. Might hurt your feelings..but hey, let's see the truth here! Otherwise we keep living in a jail of lies and old outdated stories..and as such live a smaller life then we can. And just thinking about that sucks! And for good reason.
Markets wispers, just tune in.
  • #32
  • May 27, 2015 5:46am May 27, 2015 5:46am
I wrote some insight about having a courage to keep going after one failed zillion times and also about why it might be so challenging to stand out and differ from the pack/herd. That's why it might be difficult to find out somebody who actually believes in you and encourages you to keep going, especially when you need it the most as you experience doubts whether it's actually possible, whether there's actually any light at all.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...03#post8286303
Markets wispers, just tune in.
  • #33
  • Edited 6:52am May 27, 2015 6:31am | Edited 6:52am
I find it interesting how Greed and Fear can have such an impact upon us and our ability to trade profitably. What's the big deal here? None of that is to be resisted or even fought. Embracing, accepting it, allowing it works better.
After all what we resist, persist.

Btw I realized following..I saw markets rather as enemy and I kept records/accounts of P/L with each I traded. And every loss was considered as failure & defeat. And I took it all very personally. Crazy right? That's why I was looking quite desperatelly for a win, any win..to just feel better. And all I had in mind was "I gotta make it all up and then some" cause I invested bunch of time, efforts and money and sacrified a lot of my life to make it..and I am nowhere close where I wanted to be? And at the same time it was harder and harder to keep going, after all, with all that "hard data & statistics" do I stand a chance at all? Is it worth trying after all this?

This was hard & painful to even just acknowledge. After all being a failure/looser/stupid just sucks, doesn't it?
Yet, failure, looser, stupid or mistake is no longer a bad word in my world. It has nothing to do with who I trully am. None of that defines me..and boy that's relieving.

And surprisingly there's a sense of self-worth showing up. Out of a blue. Hi, where have you been all the time? )
And that's a success and great achievement I am glad about. And little by little..reality, experiences and results shifts accordingly. For I shifted and am shifting the relationship with myself.

If somebody would tell me I'd write something like that just couple years ago I would just laugh. I was never into this sort of stuff you can't touch or measure, I was practical, down to the Earth guy. "If you can't prove it, it doesn't exist" type of guy.

Well, I realized there's is more, way more to life and making ones dreams reality. And I am grateful now.
Journey well worth it.

Why I consider it worth it despite the fact that reality is still pretty much the same if not even worse?

Cause I am realizing the sense of I CAN. I always thought "I can" and "I will" but there's difference between just thinking it and being it & feeling it & knowing it.

And for that I am grateful, it's just different experience, different thoughts, different approach to life, different approach to others, different approach to trading. Better one, adding fun & joy into the seriousness of trading & life & its challenges that then becomes nothing but opportunities to grow.

Not something to stop you,
not something to get you,
not something to harm you,
not something to make you suffer,
not something to fight with.
No life or death situations.
No "gotta make it or".. Or what?

I don't have to any longer..I choose to..I enjoy to..for I see there's a greater, better, brighter future available. And I just want that and nothing less or smaller.
Markets wispers, just tune in.
  • #34
  • May 27, 2015 6:47am May 27, 2015 6:47am
Thank you so much for this wonderful thread. I really appreciate it.
  • #35
  • May 27, 2015 7:05am May 27, 2015 7:05am
Quoting Jamos
Thank you so much for this wonderful thread. I really appreciate it.
Thanks Jamos, I hesitated for quite a while to write about this. I saw it as rather weird stuff..and didn't see how much this actually could add to others. But over time I realized that would someone write about that back then my journey would potencially be different, shorter and easier.

Having the priorities set well, up to date and having clarity what I am after and what matters is something that's saving time, energy and money. Bunch of it. None of what I did was wrong or waste of time, without that experience I wouldn't grow into who I am now. Be it the technicals, or strategies, MM's, plan etc. A lot of that was blind alley, but being who I am now, I take a bit here a bit there and suddenly it works. It's like adding a dimension to it. Just wow..
Markets wispers, just tune in.
  • #36
  • Jun 3, 2015 7:14am Jun 3, 2015 7:14am
Do know that you are the real deal already and do know you know what's best for you even thought it might not seem so.
You do know, deep within. Learn to strengten the connection with that place & space you trully are as you navigate throughout your day. And join my in thriving forward!

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...89#post8302189

Btw anybody got any question around this? Anything unclear? Post it, let me know. I look forward to it. Let's have some interaction going on here.

Or it's all clear and you got some nice results? Post them, share them! Let me know what opened up in your world! Love seeing people changing their patterns, their lives, trading results into better & more!
Markets wispers, just tune in.
  • #37
  • Jun 4, 2015 5:05am Jun 4, 2015 5:05am
hi plukin,

i believe most people are not into psychological aspect , they are more into searching the grail, for me the grail are ourself, and the system will follow
Closer To Dream
  • #38
  • Jun 4, 2015 6:17am Jun 4, 2015 6:17am
perfect threat! Sometimes its pretty hard to me control my emotions, but i try to stop myself as soon as i feel that logical part is leaving me and im about to start doing hysterical things.
  • #39
  • Jun 4, 2015 10:31am Jun 4, 2015 10:31am
I have many to say, but it is difficult in the language that is not my native. Thanks to you I understood the things that I missed so far. I was trying to control my emotions and reactions over and over again. And that creates much trouble and tension because it is difficult to change anything that was established throughout the life. I wanted to become better than I am, to be anything that I am not now. Your words about acceptance changed everything. These thoughts have been heard so many times from other sources, they were in my mind for so long but they never really entered into my consciousness. It's like to hear a hundred times that you need drive carefully, but you really understand these words only after anything happens to you. You never know wherefrom an idea that change your life will come. Hope my thoughts are clear.
  • #40
  • Jun 4, 2015 11:29am Jun 4, 2015 11:29am
Quoting bakemaka
I have many to say, but it is difficult in the language that is not my native. Thanks to you I understood the things that I missed so far. I was trying to control my emotions and reactions over and over again. And that creates much trouble and tension because it is difficult to change anything that was established throughout the life. I wanted to become better than I am, to be anything that I am not now. Your words about acceptance changed everything. These thoughts have been heard so many times from other sources, they were in my mind for so long...
Thank you & don't worry. It's crystal clear! I feel you.. I was there and still am at times. But the more I remember to allow & accept instead of fight & resist..the easier it gets. And one day your entire 'system' gets it. And when that clicks it gets a lot easier. Don't get me wrong, there'll be always challenges..but once you understand & experience that your own "auto system" is on your side as well..it's relieving. There still will be habits and stories deeply wired..but from that point you understand there's nothing in your way..that it just works in a certain way and one can say that from that point you are moving in same direction, no longer fighting each other. No longer any blame on "subconsciouss", "changing habits is difficult" etc.

And it's really interesting and still surprising how such "stupidly simple" breathing & awareness & willingness to explore the inner space creates so much change! I heard that several times..that breathing is a powerful tool.. I even practice that for couple months so I do have experience that it helps a lot.. But as you said..we need to hear it again and again till it clicks..and clicks..and that CLICKS. And so on..ever expanding even more.

What helped me was a presentation from a guy who does ultramarathons. Some 5000 kms in some 52 day! That's nearly 100km a day. I asked him how he trains for that. I expecte some king of mix of visualisation of the run + physical training.

He said "you can't prepare for that, it's hell."..he said he tries to run at least 2km a day, every day. The rest is just stillness practise, deep meditation, observing what's going on within, strengtening his connection with Who he trully is. Nothing more..just stillness practice. I was really surprised. Expected something profound.. )

And at that time I alredy knew it's powerful stuff cause it shifted a lot in me. So..it's trully powerful stuff this breathing thing + one's willingness to be aware of what's going on & willingness to explore even seemingly weird stuff..

Quoting MarioS
perfect threat! Sometimes its pretty hard to me control my emotions, but i try to stop myself as soon as i feel that logical part is leaving me and im about to start doing hysterical things.
Thanks! Do know you are doing great job and keep celebrating that. Keep celebrating your efforts. It helps with improving the progress. Btw emotions are to be experienced not to be controlled. They are like river..try to control it and it might just blow what's in the way.

I myself still have a challenge to experience anger/rage. I am doing better then before, finding ways to experience that in a way it doesn't harm me or other things..but honestly..I want to progress quicker! And I do take every opportunity to experience it. Cause the more it's experienced the lesser the charge on that one. The lesser the impact the lesser it affects our decisions & thus actions.

So, great job guys! Just do know that & celebrate it. Might sound silly cause it's no big deal right..? It pays off to celebrate what you got, that helps with the shift as we strengten the knowing that our efforts are worth it.

Whenever I want to progress quicker..I keep reminding myself it's like turning a crude oil tanker..it just takes a while..and goes just a little bit, just little bit one step at a time, nearly unnoticable changes..so just do know it's turning for it is.. And suddenly you notice a change. And then another one.
Markets wispers, just tune in.
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