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Work Vs Trade

  • #81
  • Mar 12, 2015 7:52am Mar 12, 2015 7:52am
Quoting moonshot
{quote} I agree with part about relying solely on trading. i.e it can make you emotional at times. However, I believe that you do not necessarily have to work 9-5 to enjoy emotionless trading. You never know the kind of day you could have at work, and then it all trickles down to your trading activity. On the other hand, I think the key here is diversifying your investments. Trade in FX, Invest in Stocks, real estate and bonds if you can. That is a good source of providing stability in your income streams, which then provides calm when trading.
Yes I agree moonshot diversifying is a great way if you have the resources.

A 9-5 job like you said can be more emotional than the trading itself, one should always try and be in a clear state of mind when trading.
  • #82
  • Mar 12, 2015 8:03am Mar 12, 2015 8:03am
Quoting radityo.ardi
{quote} I tell you what... A normal 9-5 job doesn't make me emotionally stable in trading... I'm one of many examples...
Ha ha Yes I understand!!

I guess what I meant to say was that most people with a 9-5 job trade off larger times frame, swing trade and only take a few trades a week. Whereas those who have time to trade full time, day traders, sclapers watch their screens all day. Both can have great strategies, work hard, but the majority of day traders will fail purely because they cannot handle the emotional side of trading, be patient, letting trades run, getting stopped out. I have worked for a broker and they just loved the day traders!!
  • #83
  • Mar 12, 2015 8:34am Mar 12, 2015 8:34am
Quoting richieforex
{quote} Most people learn more from losing than winning so try to understand why you blew your account and become a part trader as a result. In your case if you really want to trade but have not got the time to learn, find yourself someone who is already successful and copy their trades. Based on your current commitments I would suggest a swing trader. You can make a bit of money whilst learning some of the principles. Then when you have got time, devote it to learning and refining a strategy that suits you. When confident you can make consistent...
Yup, i'm swimming with sharks in water. Now i taste it.
Just stumble upon Forex when i'm browsing the net and tried it without any proper lesson few month back.

I don't have friends or people i know to learn from where i come. All they said Forex is a fraud or something.
Swing trader? I don't really get it. But yea, i do learn a lot from what i lost. At the same time i still confuse and lost with forex jargon and strategy.
I do need a proper guideline fast since i'm graduating in 6 month time and i'll be working all weekdays 9 to 5. So there's not much time to learn anymore.

So yea...
  • #84
  • Mar 12, 2015 9:43am Mar 12, 2015 9:43am
Quoting wazokao
{quote} Yup, i'm swimming with sharks in water. Now i taste it. Just stumble upon Forex when i'm browsing the net and tried it without any proper lesson few month back. I don't have friends or people i know to learn from where i come. All they said Forex is a fraud or something. Swing trader? I don't really get it. But yea, i do learn a lot from what i lost. At the same time i still confuse and lost with forex jargon and strategy. I do need a proper guideline fast since i'm graduating in 6 month time and i'll be working...
Without wanting to plug any website babypips is a good place to learn for free. Take the course and you will learn everything you need to know to get started.
You don't need to know a great deal to trade and be successful regardless of what people say. What is important is that you can follow a trade plan religiously. It sounds easy but most fail.
If you can spare 30 mins a day, you can trade. You do not have to be stuck in front of the screens all day.
In your situation I would trade longer term taken a couple of trades a week.
Start off with a small account and risk only a maximum of 1% per trade.
  • #85
  • Mar 12, 2015 3:23pm Mar 12, 2015 3:23pm
Work and trade here as well. My profession is a little more free, though, so I can spend some more time on 4X
  • #86
  • Mar 12, 2015 5:02pm Mar 12, 2015 5:02pm
Quoting wazokao
Well... come here to learn something. I just blew my first account but in minimal deposit which is $100usd. Trying to balance my college assignment, thesis and then fx is not easy. I get really emotional after i lost a lot. Don't really have the time to analysis or study the market while juggle with a bunch of workload from college. I guess i have a long way to discipline myself. @richieforex ill take not on those reason.
Ideally this shows just how combining work and trading can spring forth some conflicting results to different traders. Some believe that doing something else aside can help in trades while others like you are probably positive about devoting more time.

Nonetheless, I think what RichieForex is suggesting may be worth the try, but it is good that you make thorough background checks before committing to a managed account. So yes, copy trading will work just fine.
  • #87
  • Mar 12, 2015 10:55pm Mar 12, 2015 10:55pm
I think the point is, just try to find the most suitable and "unique" method for you to get money, either from forex or 9-5 dayjob.

Why? I would say each person has different experiences and ways. Well, some may say that dayjob makes your emotional stable when trading forex. Some may say totally impossible to trade when you have your job on hand, therefore makes you emotionally unstable, since your work is pretty much like 9-11. Some may say possible, they can do trading while working.
I'm the second guy type, where the normal job makes me emotionally unstable, so totally impossible for me to do normal trading, even when I'm off from my job. So I'm still trying to find a "hole".
If you ask me to code/fix your EA... it's probably not for free...
  • #88
  • Mar 13, 2015 5:27am Mar 13, 2015 5:27am
Quoting richieforex
{quote} Without wanting to plug any website babypips is a good place to learn for free. Take the course and you will learn everything you need to know to get started. You don't need to know a great deal to trade and be successful regardless of what people say. What is important is that you can follow a trade plan religiously. It sounds easy but most fail. If you can spare 30 mins a day, you can trade. You do not have to be stuck in front of the screens all day. In your situation I would trade longer term taken a couple of trades a week. Start off...
I see and that's really true. I grab the course if i stumble upon one around my area. And you're right! I need to learn how to manage my risk and discipline myself thoroughly, i mean like religiously.
Thank you for replying my comment! Much appreciated! Hope i can learn more from you!
  • #89
  • Mar 13, 2015 5:31am Mar 13, 2015 5:31am
Quoting moonshot
{quote} Ideally this shows just how combining work and trading can spring forth some conflicting results to different traders. Some believe that doing something else aside can help in trades while others like you are probably positive about devoting more time. Nonetheless, I think what RichieForex is suggesting may be worth the try, but it is good that you make thorough background checks before committing to a managed account. So yes, copy trading will work just fine.
Yup, i need someone to copy trading from. But i don't have that someone right now. :/
  • #90
  • Mar 13, 2015 7:05am Mar 13, 2015 7:05am
Why is the name of this thread not Work vs Work? - Trading is WORK, a different kind of Work. But still Work!
MY SITTING, NEVER MY THINKING!
  • #91
  • Mar 15, 2015 3:19am Mar 15, 2015 3:19am
Quoting asliok
Good question To be honest I don't like to go to work. Actually I don't like orders and working standart salary. Wake up 7.00 a.m. go to work, go to home and sleep etc etc. I don't like it! I don't like to work for 500-1000$ every month.
Here is my opinion to this topic:
I think there are 98% of the people who want to earn more money in their regular job.
But my experience is: I have few friends and they saw me and that Iam at home and trade. So they also tried it and of course, they failed.
I think there is a big difference: Do you have the power to trade and trade and trade or do you throw this away in the next 2-3 months? I saw really a lot of people who wanted money, but didn't want to learn trading.
The reason why you want to learn this (because it takes a few years to get a feeling for the market) is important. It shouldn't be "money",
it is more. It is not all about the money, this is also your daily job and you have to like or love it
  • #92
  • Mar 15, 2015 5:18am Mar 15, 2015 5:18am
just trading drives people crazy... that's why a lot of traders start to teach or to write.
  • #93
  • Mar 15, 2015 9:08am Mar 15, 2015 9:08am
Quoting Custos
{quote} So in the philippines they pay you to trade during your actual working hours? In europe employers pay you to work during working hours.
Believe me, even in some hard-working parts of Europe (Greece perhaps?) you can sit their at your desk and check your facebook and your fx account once in a while.
  • #94
  • Mar 15, 2015 9:13am Mar 15, 2015 9:13am
This might not be a reality for some people, but consider working at a trading firm. This does two great things. 1 - you have to stay on top of market events, and get up to speed on the inner working of how the mechanics of trading work, etc. It's basically your job to be informed about the markets, and you get paid for it. 2 - You get paid for being plugged in. You need money in this business to make money. It's no coincidence that some of the best traders throughout history and currently, will work in the industry.

That said, there are those that work regular jobs and do very well. Basically, unless your regular job allows you to trade the EU or US sessions, you are forced to stay away from the short term trading methods and are most likely looking at swing/trend trading methods. Alternatively, those that have a programming background can automate their strategies and then look to simply monitor their account throughout the day/week while taking advantage of the short term - and there are great VPS services out there that are very beneficial when your are operating an automated strategy.

An overall point that I have misunderstood early in my career, and I see many new traders overlook as well is, that you have to pick your opportunities. Thinking that trading is a daily thing, or operates on a set schedule will make you force positions - you will take trades that might not necessarily be trades worth looking at. Knowing when there is an opportunity and when to take a position is key - or simply knowing when not to trade. An uptick in volatility, or a major news event will usually present possible opportunities on a short term basis. An uptick in open interest (COT, volume) and the expectations and actions of central banks or sentiment will present possible long term opportunities.

Last thing: know when you're hot. The term 'draw down' notes a string of bad trades that will happen to mostly every trader. Then what about when you have a string of great trades? When your strategy is making money, you add to it - when losing money, you can take a step back and assess the overall market picture to see what the current opportunity is, if any. There's a trader that trades with my firm that made well into 8 figures last week. He was trading massively and was taking on higher risk than normal - but his response to his uptick in risk and activity was "I'm hot right now!" What is the opportunity? The USD bulls, and EUR parity talks. The EUR has been going in one direction for several months - and he took advantage of it. And it's worth mentioning that he doesn't have a job in the industry - and considers himself an "amateur."
  • #95
  • Mar 25, 2015 7:30am Mar 25, 2015 7:30am
Very interesting question and very tempting when you are making profits on a row.

I think it takes a lot of self-discipline and self-realization to be a professional/ full-time trader. I have given it a thought from time to time but I am still sticking to my day job.
  • #96
  • Mar 27, 2015 5:36am Mar 27, 2015 5:36am
Quoting CIORIMAU--
It is possible to trade forex and work at 9 to 17.Can you agree that with you works a lot you have to be a long term trader?
Hi Ciorimau,

of course it is possible, yes. And you can also be a short-term trader. You have to make work what is available to you. If you have only 2 hours in the evening or morning, it may be better to be an end-of-day trader for you. But if your personality does not fit to that style, it is better for you to daytrade 2 hours in the evening, and try to adapt your strategy to the limited time window you have.

Lots of people might be of the opinion that if they could only quit their job and start trading full-time, they would become profitable. While this might be true for some, most don't take into account the added pressure. So the money you make from your dayjob takes away a lot of your studytime, but it also takes away a lot of the psychological pressure. It's never black and white.

Find what suits your personality and make it work for your situation. You can then be profitable either long-term or short-term, and still have a dayjob.

Moritz
  • #97
  • Mar 30, 2015 2:12am Mar 30, 2015 2:12am
I could never trade fulltime without another income source. People who do must have cast iron stomachs.

Another reason to have a job and trade part time is to build up your trading capital. I get my capital from savings of my paycheck not from trading. From what I have read the reason most traders fail is because they are under capitalized. My long term goal is to accumulate $100,000 USD and trade 1% of it per trade. I have read this is how the pro's do it. In the meantime I am making small trades (micro lots) and learning. It takes patience, but I can afford to be patient because I have a job.
  • #98
  • Mar 30, 2015 5:26pm Mar 30, 2015 5:26pm
Quoting Mingary
A day job is absolutely necessary because a real job separates reality from fantasy


and BTW trading is a very boring job if you are experienced and always know how to behave, what to do. I work in the Banking IT sector, I do interesting things during my job and my side job is trading. Sometimes I make more money in forex than I earn from the company I work for. So what? That is not a good reason to quit a good job.

What really helps me to keep the work / trade balance if I swing trade in H1 and check the market each morning and then maximum 4 times during the day. If I spend more than 15-20 minutes on trading on a workday I do something really wrong. My way is to split the job with the computer. What I am really good at is to judge the current market situation / trend using technical analysis, and based on that I can enter the market. What a computer / trading tool is good at is to observe my strategy rules and exit the market with minimized loss or maximized profit, according to my settings.
I use an universal MT4 tool for this purpose but if someone has specialized strategy elements, it is possible to find someone to code it.
But there is no need to over-complicate, as all we know at least the followings: there are only two directions to trade and we never know for sure what is going to happen
  • #99
  • Sep 9, 2015 1:55pm Sep 9, 2015 1:55pm
I believe that your main work and your trading performance should not be intertwined, especially if you're a new trader. I could recommend you not to count on trading results, for instance, if you are planning how to pay your debts or bills next month. I think one should make FX as a main job and become a full-time trader only after having constant positive results and feeling stably about the outcome of order opening. Until you master your trading, your main work should leave your main work. And this can (and likely to) take years.
  • #100
  • Sep 9, 2015 9:58pm Sep 9, 2015 9:58pm
I honestly think there should be an 800 number for people who think they are going to spend all day scalping a tiny fx account and become a millionaire from it. Seriously, FF should have a big disclaimer at the top of the home page with the big 800 number flashing in red.
"If The Fool persists in his Folly he will become wise." - William Blake
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