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The Market's Illusions & The Human Brain

  • #61
  • Mar 20, 2015 12:46am Mar 20, 2015 12:46am
Quoting Neio
Great discussion here... Thought I would share this... http://www.jst.go.jp/csc/virtual/find/mindlab/english/ I came across this in one of CrucialPoints posts but the link he posted is now broken (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...87#post7229787 ) Regards Neio
Thanks for this Neio. :-)

Here is another challenging image of 4 circles that tricks the old brain. It actually takes a solid mental effort to deal with this illusion which we *MAY* interpret as a continuous swirl. For a party trick you could create a dart board with this pattern and watch where the darts fall *sniggers*.

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  • #62
  • Mar 20, 2015 1:08pm Mar 20, 2015 1:08pm
perceptions and stuff is all nice and dandy and fascinating our brains are more faulty then we believe. One thing I've learned amongst things is know your own limitations. For example, when people read my posts or hear me speak they think I am this super smart person lol, or at least I hope they think so In reality, it takes me a lot of effort to piece things together. I'm not a quick learner, and everything for me is like puzzle pieces that I need to see how it all fits together to bring a picture. By knowing your limitations your able to find better constructive ways of getting the whole picture. I've done a lot of schooling and still I'm at school as I talk here I am reading a biology text book while preparing for exam week. I am not good at taking tests or even my memory. I tend to completely have mind blocks or missing pieces. What I do is I create my own study guides its a very time consuming effort.. I mean I am currently on the 17th page of my biology study guide for the 3 chapters were working on now when I finish it will probably be 25 pages and then I go over and over the study guide until I know this stuff in my sleep.

What I am trying to get at.. everything we do in our daily live tasks can be approached into our trading, I try to emphasize the point that we are all different individuals. I might sound smart, I am not as smart as people think. I just work hard, I lack a social life and put a lot of effort and energy into learning and spending time with my son. I'm not saying this is an approach for everyone give up your social life and start learning, but unlike other people it doesn't come naturally to me, I have to adjust my behavior to achieve my desired goals. So its a lot of conscious movement. Acknowledgement, I suck. Steps to correct my sucky behaviors. Acknowledgment bad behaviors, I tend to procrastinate. Correct bad behavior. Etc.. Reward yourself for good behaviors - negative reinforcement. (Its confusing but negative reinforcement is actually positive)
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #63
  • Mar 20, 2015 1:16pm Mar 20, 2015 1:16pm
Did that really smart guy say something?...........*LOL*.

Only stirring in jest.....Point taken. I think we both need to get out more. I am starting to feel like 'bubble boy' :-)
  • #64
  • Mar 20, 2015 1:17pm Mar 20, 2015 1:17pm
Quoting palabara
So its a lot of conscious movement. Acknowledgement, I suck. Steps to correct my sucky behaviors. Acknowledgment bad behaviors, I tend to procrastinate. Correct bad behavior. Etc.. Reward yourself for good behaviors - negative reinforcement. (Its confusing but negative reinforcement is actually positive)
This is so important for every one to learn. Self Awareness and understanding how habits and neurons in your brain work is key to understanding how you can build the habits and skills you want. I thankfully was exposed to this a little over 4 years ago by one of the world best gamers. He currently holds many world records for games like starcraft, world of warcraft and world stars poker. Here is a video he made about the brain, neurons and all that good stuff once all of his research was complete.

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  • #65
  • Mar 20, 2015 1:19pm Mar 20, 2015 1:19pm
Quoting Copernicus
Did that really smart guy say something?...........*LOL*. Only stirring in jest.....Point taken. I think we both need to get out more. I am starting to feel like 'bubble boy' :-)
lol I wish a was a bubble boy right now, then maybe I wouldn't have this damn cold

Hope you had a good trading week! Is the weekend, I don't know what people do in the weekend. It's been too long lol.
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #66
  • Mar 20, 2015 1:26pm Mar 20, 2015 1:26pm
Quoting palabara
{quote} lol I wish a was a bubble boy right now, then maybe I wouldn't have this damn cold Hope you had a good trading week! Is the weekend, I don't know what people do in the weekend. It's been too long lol.
Lol im with you. I used to hate sundays/mondays and love fridays/saturdays. Now it is the other way around.
  • #67
  • Edited 1:51pm Mar 20, 2015 1:38pm | Edited 1:51pm
Thank god it's the weekend. Given the enlightening discussions this week on this thread I have been working over-time and need a chill. It's hard to be enlightened whilst at the same time respond to the FOMC announcement. I was being pulled in every direction and feel like plado at the moment.

That vid Sis is right down my alley. Amazing stuff that stretches the old grey matter. Love it......and still on it :-)
  • #68
  • Mar 20, 2015 2:04pm Mar 20, 2015 2:04pm
A Shorter Version with some more detail in regards to
Quoting Sis.yphus
{quote}how you can build the habits and skills you want.
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You gotta love the human brain.
  • #69
  • Edited 5:08pm Mar 20, 2015 4:30pm | Edited 5:08pm
Think FF should be renamed Introverts R Us!

When I worked at Australia's central bank we had to take extremely complex concepts and theories, break them down and be able to explain them in plain English. No briefing note, regardless of the complexity of the subject matter could be more than one page. This had a profound effect on me as I soon realised that I really wasn't that smart after all. Having a high IQ and great academic results means nothing in the real world if you do not know how to apply all that so called intelligence. The ability to take stuff like what is being discussed in this thread, make sense of it and apply it practically.

But even at the heart of the most complex theory lies a simple concept. Sometimes you just need to peel away the layers of techno babble, jargon and marketing spin to reveal it. This is often the hardest battle of all. Are there ever any genuinely new ideas? Are we anymore intelligent than our predescessors? The difference is the level of accrued knowledge and the ability and freedom to think outside of the square. Throughout history the relative freedoms we have now have not always been the norm. As Athene states, modern society is enabling these processes like a supercharged Renaissance. But it has taken many thousands of years to get to this stage, it did not happen overnight.

I may be no more intelligent than any of my forebears but look at what I have at my disposal if I have the motivation, rigour and discipline to make use of it. People often ask myself and my team members at work what research tool we use. Have you heard of Google is my standard response now. Everyone has access to it but not everyone trawls through to say page 10 to find the real nuggets. Even in my lifetime the changes have been profound. Even just a few years ago there is no way I could have been exposed to stuff like what is being discussed here without a huge amount of search time and some requisite level of knowledge. It would not have happened. Now all this stuff is adding to my accrued knowledge and helping me to understand things better.

CrucialPoint states we need to possess a solid trading philosophy. To me this is what separates the trolls from the people who come hear to learn from people like Sis. The trolls are obsessed with the "how", how to trade forex and not the "why", why should we be trading that way. They want to be spoon fed a system without ever questioning the broader, bigger picture about how markets work. This thread is an example of focussing on and trying to make sense of the forex market by looking through a multitude of lenses and perspectives. Both extremely challenging and extremely humbling as the cliche goes "we don't know what we don't know".

Anyway, enough philosophising! It is the weekend here, the sun is shining and I am going to go out and socialise with as many people as possible to prove to myself I am not really an introvert.............
Audentes Fortuna Juvat
  • #70
  • Mar 20, 2015 8:16pm Mar 20, 2015 8:16pm
I know I must be an introvert. My wife tells me continuosuly "to get my head out of my arse" and I just respond "keep talking talky person". :-)

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.......the weekend is here......... *thinks*........ now how to avoid irritating tasks of being an involved and helpful father and husband. Let me ponder some more on this and hatch a strategy.
  • #71
  • Mar 21, 2015 6:59am Mar 21, 2015 6:59am
Quoting Nijee
When I worked at Australia's central bank we had to take extremely complex concepts and theories.............
BTW Nijee, that post was an eloquent statement. I have been re-reading it several times as it's content is wide-reaching. Philosophy is far to important to leave to philosophers....far better in the deft hands of creative traders :-)
  • #72
  • Mar 21, 2015 7:22pm Mar 21, 2015 7:22pm
Quoting Copernicus
{quote} BTW Nijee, that post was an eloquent statement. I have been re-reading it several times as it's content is wide-reaching. Philosophy is far to important to leave to philosophers....far better in the deft hands of creative traders :-)
Thanks. It was not called the dark ages because it had on average less sunny days LOL. We are truly blessed to be alive in 2015. My main lament is that I wish I was a bit younger than I am. But only if I could have the accrued knowledge that nearly half a century on this planet has given me. Forget being a creative trader, maybe we should be focusing on time travel instead fellow fossil!
Audentes Fortuna Juvat
  • #73
  • Mar 21, 2015 7:38pm Mar 21, 2015 7:38pm
Quoting Nijee
{quote} Thanks. It was not called the dark ages because it had on average less sunny days LOL. We are truly blessed to be alive in 2015. My main lament is that I wish I was a bit younger than I am. But only if I could have the accrued knowledge that nearly half a century on this planet has given me. Forget being a creative trader, maybe we should be focusing on time travel instead fellow fossil!
I like the idea of time travel....but I am not having much success at the moment. Weird stuff keeps on happening.

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The problem with this accrued knowledge is that soon it is going to dissipate underground somewhere. Looks like we may have just missed the bio-tech generation where organic brains and associated hardware can live in *almost* perpetuity which leaves just enough time to find that trading approach that *actually* works.
  • #74
  • Mar 21, 2015 11:12pm Mar 21, 2015 11:12pm
I was thinking of something today which is the end game.. When you've reached Forex end game. I think, I finally made the realization. I've reached the end game. What does that mean.. It means that if forex is a game then you've achieved the final level and finished the game there is no more challenges, no more things to beat or to do or quiver upon.

So in essence its what any gamer strives for is to get to the end game, but when you've played the game for so long you stop realizing what will happen when you achieve the end game you don't think about that because your to focused on getting their. Once you their, your sense of purpose is lost, all that frustration and journey leading to the finally is satisfying yet leaves you wanting maybe the lack of the grand prize at the end and the fact that it still yet to be achieved but what is the grand prize? is it a sum of money? is it the satisfaction? I think that people are better off chasing things but never catching them.. I was just watching black sails on starz favorite show and key message from the show is that the pirates hunting for the prizes, but they always long for the ocean being in the ocean the thrill of it that the end game continues beyond by the sheer presence of being apart of it, in it.

I've started to expand my grasp unto other markets.. I've just tackled gold and will be tackling indexes next.. to continue my journey and push the end game and keep pushing it, because I believe the point is not to continue in the game without reaching the end to have a sense of purpose and challenge and the prize being the accomplishment of tackling down markets like pirates hunt for prizes.
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #75
  • Edited 6:49pm Mar 22, 2015 2:06am | Edited 6:49pm
It's time to wax lyrical in support of P's post above about the majesty of this market. :-)

It's a game all right but perhaps not a game to 'win' but rather a game of simply 'survival', 'enjoyment' and 'acceptance'.......like life itself simply due to it's unfathomable complexity.

My attitude to trading the markets has significantly changed over the years from an attitude of "I can beat this market"....to one of " I accept this market and if I pay it the respect it deserves, then I may be able to survive and actually benefit from it". The paradigm shift in attitude for me was attributed to my abandonment of notions of 'control' or 'winning' in exchange for an acceptance that it can never 'actually' be beaten or solved. Therefore the idea of 'co-existence', 'riding the wave', 'acceptance of risk', 'continuous self-improvement' and most importantly 'acceptance of changing market conditions' all started to make just so much more sense to me.....and lo and behold....my changed attitude started to pay off.

It is the same game we actually play on this planet. We can attempt to control this environment, or 'beat it', *as we know so very much/tic* with our pitiful short term, greedy, myopic and self-important ego's and disregard life's delicate balance which has elegantly emerged from simplicity to complexity over millions of years in a very profound way, or we can learn to listen to that glorious grand symphony and recognise our tiny role in it and thrive passively off it's bounty.

We get so very caught up with our ego's in this game, it's therefore only natural that this market, like life, needs to teach us a valuable lesson or two. Hopefully we are not so caught up with our red ferrari's that we fail to hear the market's call. :-(

This is where we sit in the greater scheme of things........just an inconsequential pale blue dot in a vast cosmos whose tiny piece of real-estate we can't even seem to manage sustainably. We're clever eh!!!

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  • #76
  • Mar 22, 2015 1:42pm Mar 22, 2015 1:42pm
Quoting Copernicus
. My attitude to trading the markets has significantly changed over the years from an attitude of "I can beat this market"....to one of " I accept this market and if I pay it the respect it deserves, then I may be able to survive and actually benefit from it".
Hey C, thats pretty much where I'm at....for me its now just dealing with myself rather than the market. @palabara...I like your post too.

Nice to read thought provoking posts..Thanks..
Memories caught in time but never forgotten
  • #77
  • Edited Mar 23, 2015 2:58am Mar 22, 2015 6:03pm | Edited Mar 23, 2015 2:58am
Thanks Ja

Yep, I couldn't resist getting all thought proviking, mushy and philosophical.....but I didn't start it.......they did......honest truth!!!!!!!.

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I was just talkin' 'bout the brain and simple stuff and then ol' Plato, Anaximander and Archimedes stepped into the fray.
  • #78
  • Mar 22, 2015 9:43pm Mar 22, 2015 9:43pm
Quoting Copernicus
It's time to wax lyrical in support of P's post above about the majesty of this market. :-) It's a game all right but perhaps not a game to 'win' but rather a game of simply 'survival', 'enjoyment' and 'acceptance'.......like life itself simply due to it's unfathomable complexity. My attitude to trading the markets has significantly changed over the years from an attitude of "I can beat this market"....to one of " I accept this market and if I pay it the respect it deserves, then I may be able to survive and actually benefit from it". The paradigm...


This is where we differ. I have the gamer mentality that something is achievable like an end goal. So every time failure hits would restart but because you know how to get to the level before you failed that level you've failed is the "new challenge" and you keep doing the process until the end only you don't know where the end is you just keep going one level at the time and when you reached the end you only know that because there is no challenges left.. your not falling on your ass anymore and you just keep going at that point its the end game. I've hesitatingly made that realization. Partly because, I'm more afraid of the unknown now. I also fear getting to inflated ego or feeling like I'm the master or trying to do something stupid.. All this causes a new level of fear not felt before. Not about getting into a position, but about doing something out of character. When a player reaches the end game from a players mentality you feel "cocky" feel invincible and that usually leads a dumb road of doing things that you wouldn't have done before, because up to that point you've played it safe.

Also realizing that should theoretically prevent it, but how do you know if your doing something out of character? you need to constantly analyze your own behaviors.
Keep asking myself, would I have done this in the past? its pretty scary, in a weird type of way.

Quoting j4d
{quote} Hey C, thats pretty much where I'm at....for me its now just dealing with myself rather than the market. @palabara...I like your post too. Nice to read thought provoking posts..Thanks..

Thanks hehe
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #79
  • Edited 10:47pm Mar 22, 2015 10:16pm | Edited 10:47pm
Hi P

I am not so sure that we do really differ as both your and my interpretations guarantee 'self improvement' and the need for a dedicated focus towards risk management = Fear of the unknown. These two aspects in my opinion are essential pre-requisities for living a productive life as a trader. It is by recognising that the game never ends and that to survive a necessary lifetime means we should always seek to better understand it and ensure we never get to 'cocky'.

It is what keeps us away from this....."the legendary lost valley of failed traders" :-)

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  • #80
  • Mar 22, 2015 10:22pm Mar 22, 2015 10:22pm
Quoting Copernicus
Hi P I am not so sure that we do really differ as both your and my interpretations guarantee 'self improvement' and the need for a dedicated focus towards risk management = Fear of the unknown. These two aspects in my opinion are essential pre-requisities for living a living and productive life as a trader. It is by recognising that the game never ends and that to survive a necessary lifetime means we should always seek to better understand it and ensure we never get to 'cocky'. It is what keeps us away from this....."the legendary lost valley of...
If you watch Anime you would like "sword art online" literally living a productive survival life in a game lol. That and also Dot Hack! also about living in a game only Dot hack is more philosophically charged about the players and their intentions and their real selves outside the game and how all of them differ from their alter egos.
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
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