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Is trading not considered a job?

  • #21
  • Mar 14, 2015 1:16am Mar 14, 2015 1:16am
Quoting Eur Usd
One thing to say: work smart not hard. In the past, as a child, then as teenager I thought that the only important job is job that produces something. That person who sits behind desk is just a parasite and working class is keeping them unproductive parasites for some weird reason and then I grew up
Then you figured out that parasitism is quite comfortable, so you came up with that smart theory.
  • #22
  • Mar 14, 2015 3:10am Mar 14, 2015 3:10am
Quoting grin
{quote} Then you figured out that parasitism is quite comfortable, so you came up with that smart theory.
As long as you earn money and it is legal
On my way to financial independence - if others can do it - I can do it
  • #23
  • Mar 14, 2015 3:28am Mar 14, 2015 3:28am
Why should I feel bad? There is plenty of money in the system, enough for everybody. I'm just taking a bit of it. I'd feel way worse knowing I wasted my life to earn just enough for a living! Is that a life worth living?

You know a parasite is somebody who does absolute nothing and lives on top of other organism. I don't feel like that. Politicians, banksters, nobles fall into that category. I devolve 10% of my earnings to charity and I'm far from being considered rich. My computer is 10 years old and I haven't bought new clothes for months.

Yesterday my sister gave me 100 euros, saying: "here, make them into 10k for me pretty please?". Imagine my face. I just don't understand why people think it's a game. If it was that easy everybody would be rich.
  • #24
  • Mar 14, 2015 12:43pm Mar 14, 2015 12:43pm
I think the negativity non-trading people have towards people that trade for a living or aim to, is that it's simply difficult to accept it's a 'job', it's seemingly low stress, work at home, needs less education than to be a plumber (as in a trader could write down all they know into a 'textbook' less than 100 pages), looking at charts and clicking away and waiting is more or less the only activity, and creates near no value, but gets a disproportionately large compensation, the complete opposite of a normal job. Now sure it's a legal means to acquire an income, but the value the work itself creates is so miniscule. I mean, a regular job, be it a nurse, IT technician, engineer, architect, tradesman, all produce something through the work alone, not indirectly via taxes to gov or to charities, or spending to keep the economy going (all of which are pathetic reasons [aside from huge sums] because a regular job person can/does do these things too).

So say a trader made $100k at a bank, 40hr minimum week, he makes profit for the bank which then pays employees and increases the money available for lending, lowering interest rates, increasing the amount of capital that can be accessed by businesses and people. That's a job, and he pays taxes, maybe gives to charity and spends like a regular consumer. But a sole trader that made $100k from trading, most likely less than 40hr active trading, with lots of screen watching, at home, has produced almost nothing, contributed to price volatility, increased the price of commodities due to mass demand for speculation. So a tradesman can go home knowing he built a foundation for a new home, whereas a trader who is already at home, hasn't created anything.

Now don't me wrong, I'd love to be able to trade for a living, but I'd be doing so in full knowledge that I won't be productive to society through my work, like a doctor, engineer or tradesman, only through the profit which is skimmed off from other participants in the market (as in zero sum), which really is just a redistribution of wealth of sorts. If I were trading for a living, I'd call it a source of income, I'd feel uncomfortable calling it a job.
  • #25
  • Mar 14, 2015 1:10pm Mar 14, 2015 1:10pm
What if a rich banker or trader (samething basically) gets tons of money and then GIVES buys a foundation for a homeless family and then builds a house on it and creates a buiness they can work at and even takes care of anything that was holding them back (health problems usually).
  • #26
  • Mar 14, 2015 1:11pm Mar 14, 2015 1:11pm
Quoting jeanlouie
I think the negativity non-trading people have towards people that trade for a living or aim to, is that it's simply difficult to accept it's a 'job', it's seemingly low stress, work at home, needs less education than to be a plumber (as in a trader could write down all they know into a 'textbook' less than 100 pages), looking at charts and clicking away and waiting is more or less the only activity, and creates near no value, but gets a disproportionately large compensation, the complete opposite of a normal job. Now sure it's a legal means to...

You may have not produced anything trading, but what will you do with the all money you made? Put in under your mattress?

No, you will spend it, buy more thing, more expansive things that you may not afford with a "classic" job. And by spending this ton of cash this is the compensation of the fact you don't produce anything.

I hope you understand what i mean
COT: The precious data ignored
  • #27
  • Mar 14, 2015 2:07pm Mar 14, 2015 2:07pm
Let's face it trading has a bad reputation that will be hard to shake off. What's funny is that you and this salesgirl share more similarities than differences, both your roles involve buying and selling to make a profit. The only difference here is the vehicle you are using to trade and the fact that she's just passing on the profit to her company which pays her a fixed salary. She doesn't consider it a proper job because it doesnt associate with a typical job especially if you are a home trader and most people don't understand the value in the things you are trading.
  • #28
  • Mar 14, 2015 2:12pm Mar 14, 2015 2:12pm
Quoting kuroro001
{quote} You may have not produced anything trading, but what will you do with the all money you made? Put in under your mattress? No, you will spend it, buy more thing, more expansive things that you may not afford with a "classic" job. And by spending this ton of cash this is the compensation of the fact you don't produce anything. I hope you understand what i mean
I do. By spending the money businesses are getting money to pay their workers, loans, pay taxes, and expand to employ more people. Its just a circle.
  • #29
  • Mar 14, 2015 2:59pm Mar 14, 2015 2:59pm
If someone buys something from a trader then the individual must be supplying something other people need at the right price. Else, nobody would buy anything.
  • #30
  • Mar 14, 2015 6:00pm Mar 14, 2015 6:00pm
Many consider forex to be a form of gambling, and know very little about it...

Just about everything posted on FF could be taken as evidence that forex is in fact gambling
  • #31
  • Mar 14, 2015 6:17pm Mar 14, 2015 6:17pm
Quoting emanco
I'm not rich, not yet. My family was basically on the edge of poverty. I don't even have a degree because I couldn't afford it. Heck I bought my last pair of shoes three years ago! When I finished schools there were no decent jobs for me anywhere to find. I worked in the countryside for my family for quite some time and I learnt what a hard day of working really meant. I had a choice. I could either decide to follow the footsteps of my father and do the laborer just like him or to invent myself. In '99 internet was booming I was fascinated when...
bravo
we don't predict, we only ride
  • #32
  • Mar 14, 2015 6:25pm Mar 14, 2015 6:25pm
Whatever people want to say or think about how I make my income, makes absolutely zero difference to my bottom line. People can call it whatever they want, I couldn't care less.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #33
  • Mar 14, 2015 6:27pm Mar 14, 2015 6:27pm
Quoting Stinky
Many consider forex to be a form of gambling, and know very little about it... Just about everything posted on FF could be taken as evidence that forex is in fact gambling
Just about anything in life can be called gambling. The only certainty is found in knowledge improving chances for success.

You take chances with professional choices, employment, business ventures, etc. on prior experiences and observations. Some tasks are simpler. Some tasks can be complicated, but mentally less demanding. Something which may appear simple, is not that simple in practice. Some environments are more forgiving than others. History is not a guarantee of future performance disclaimer applies to everything.
  • #34
  • Edited 6:56pm Mar 14, 2015 6:40pm | Edited 6:56pm
This is a very good question. I've thought about it quite a bit and here is one interpretation that I have come up with.

1. Traders get paid for enabling capitalism.

As individual traders, we can't do much, but together, we make the market. It's a bit paradoxical, but it doesn't mean it's untrue. We help the world function.

2a. Traders get paid for weeding out irrationality.

Staying on top of emotions is key to trading well. Traders who can't think logically and act on those thoughts will fail in the market. Good traders take money away from those people. It's Darwinism -- survival of the fittest -- at its best. Resources are given to those who have the mental and emotional faculties to make use of them.

As a race, humans will perish in the long run if irrationality triumphs.

2b. Traders get paid for taking on risk.

Humans are risk-averse creatures by nature. One reason why entrepreneurs are paid so much is because they take on the risks of the business. They get paid for the swings in wealth they experience. Most people want to draw a constant stream of income and do not want to experience volatility in their lives. Traders have no choice but to take that volatility. We take on that risk and do what people don't want to do.

Also, risk-neutrality is closely linked to seeing the world as it is. You are less averse to change. As a race, humans need people who are risk-neutral. They are the alpha-males/females in society, so it makes sense to pay these people for them to prosper and pass on their genes.

3. Traders get paid for mastery.

In any field, when you achieve a certain level of mastery in your craft, you can expect to be paid handsomely. Is Chess or Poker anymore productive? Is soccer productive? But people get paid doing those as well, sometimes extremely well. The fact is, as a society, we worship mastery and geniuses. We do so because they represent the kind of excellence in the human spirit we have come to value.

***

The fact is, every part of our life is connected to every other part. There is nothing that doesn't matter; everything matters.

Success at trading requires the same kind of mindset and habits as success in any other field requires. In fact, trading is probably one of the most demanding fields. It's not about what you make, it's about who you become.
Build good relationships with others.
  • #35
  • Mar 14, 2015 6:42pm Mar 14, 2015 6:42pm
Quoting shellsnail
This is a very good question. I've thought about it quite a bit and here is one interpretation that I have come up with. 1. Traders get paid for enabling capitalism. As individual traders, we can't do much, but together, we make the market. It's a bit paradoxical, but it doesn't mean it's untrue. We help the world function. 2. Traders get paid for weeding out irrationality. Staying on top of emotions is key to trading well. Traders who can't think logically and act on those thoughts will fail in the market. Good traders take money away from those...
record it
we don't predict, we only ride
  • #36
  • Edited 8:08pm Mar 14, 2015 7:21pm | Edited 8:08pm
Quoting emanco
I'm not rich, not yet. My family was basically on the edge of poverty. I don't even have a degree because I couldn't afford it. Heck I bought my last pair of shoes three years ago! When I finished schools there were no decent jobs for me anywhere to find. I worked in the countryside for my family for quite some time and I learnt what a hard day of working really meant. I had a choice. I could either decide to follow the footsteps of my father and do the laborer just like him or to invent myself. In '99 internet was booming I was fascinated when...
When people dont know about something they think it is useless. it is just psychology. In old days people had to do physical work in all jobs. There are many professions that are now just knowledge jobs which means doing work on computers (programming is just that only) or just paper and pencil. To laborers these are not real work.

As for traders adding real value - capitalist society cant work without markets and markets cant exist without traders. So there you have it. Trading provides an optimal allocation of capital. They make market efficient so that money is used for worthy things.

Now if everyone becomes trader then yes world will have a problem but the same can be said for practically any line of work. if everyone is a doctor, who is doing farming... if everyone is farming, who is treating people when they get sick etc etc.

Very good answer here to the same question : http://www.quora.com/How-does-tradin...lue-to-society


it is true that chances of someone making decent income from trading small account is very low compared to other options that person has for earning a living. but that doesnt make it not worthy of trying if you think you have it what it takes. now someone who is not getting successful in trading but still not pursuing other careers would be called a dreamer as time spent in trading will not add much accrued skills that the person can use to get other jobs.
Think : Trade : Live Life
  • #37
  • Mar 14, 2015 7:38pm Mar 14, 2015 7:38pm
Quoting jeanlouie
I think the negativity non-trading people have towards people that trade for a living or aim to, is that it's simply difficult to accept it's a 'job', it's seemingly low stress, work at home, needs less education than to be a plumber (as in a trader could write down all they know into a 'textbook' less than 100 pages), looking at charts and clicking away and waiting is more or less the only activity, and creates near no value, but gets a disproportionately large compensation, the complete opposite of a normal job. Now sure it's a legal means to...
you have a lot to learn about what function markets play in society. (i am btw trader at an institutional and if you think bank traders adds more value than you are mistaken. bank traders provide liquidity to clients and traders/speculators provide liquidity to market which bank trade uses to hedge their client flow).

In capitalist society, any task that generates legal profit provides value to the society as a whole. If it didnt add value, it would not have profit in it.


BTW what do you think of all these hedge funds just out of curiosity? they must be totally useless as well :-)
Think : Trade : Live Life
  • #38
  • Mar 14, 2015 7:46pm Mar 14, 2015 7:46pm
Quoting grin
{quote} Just about anything in life can be called gambling. The only certainty is found in knowledge improving chances for success. You take chances with professional choices, employment, business ventures, etc. on prior experiences and observations. Some tasks are simpler. Some tasks can be complicated, but mentally less demanding. Something which may appear simple, is not that simple in practice. Some environments are more forgiving than others. History is not a guarantee of future performance disclaimer applies to everything.
By 'gambling', most people would be implying low probability, a high chance of losing money, and/or not making money.
  • #39
  • Mar 14, 2015 8:07pm Mar 14, 2015 8:07pm
Quoting Stinky
{quote} By 'gambling', most people would be implying low probability, a high chance of losing money, and/or not making money.
Has anyone thought about similarities between relationships and trading?

Many couples fail after the initial spike of enthusiasm or time, but people try again and again. Psychology is at work in both cases. Any thoughts?
  • #40
  • Mar 14, 2015 8:45pm Mar 14, 2015 8:45pm
I always laugh at the peasants who vilify traders. I kind of like to be vilified for some reason.
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