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My EA Gift to Traders

  • #721
  • Edited Mar 3, 2015 12:14am Mar 2, 2015 1:09am | Edited Mar 3, 2015 12:14am
Just a screen shot of the TradersGift Trading Concept equity graph. (see Post #339 & Post #696)

This graph is monitoring the 21 EA's that are enabled. Only 3 are trading at this stage as you will see at the bottom of the graph.

It is looking for a TakeProfit or StopLoss of $150 on a daily basis. At present it is in profit $90. If either target is reached the CloseTrades EA will close all trades and trading will recommence automatically at 00:00:00. The blue line represents the current equity line and the red line represents the starting equity of $10,000. The trade explorer is at the top of this post.

EDIT 3rd March - I've reduced the TakeProfit and StopLoss to $100 to ensure we are able to view the CloseTrades EA in action. Yesterday the EA cycled from about $115 profit to around $75 loss and then at the end of the day to around breakeven. The EA in this situation just resets the StartingEquity to the current equity at 00:00:00.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2015-03-02 07_04_53-Program Manager.jpg Size: 289 KB
  • #722
  • Mar 2, 2015 1:30am Mar 2, 2015 1:30am
Quoting Dave_C
{quote} Regarding the activation point, the SetStopLossToBreakEven should cover that scenario because it is the overrider. Regarding the rate of decrease, the percentage is only adjusted after every 5% move in profit (which is fixed), but the amount of movement is your call.
I will try to explain what is the issue. Lets say that i set ST 200 pips (large enough) and set TakeProfitMultiplier 2 so TP will be 400 pips. I aslo set SetStopLossToBreakEven after 15 pips. And the price moves lets say in our favour 100 pips , Breakeven is activated but the trailing stop not due to the large SL , and after that when price reverses we stay at Breakeven with some pips only , but if we could make it adjustable and the trail will be triggered sooner lets say after 30 -50 pips then we can get some more pips and i think and the concept stays the same nothing is being changed.

Hope you agree on that.
  • #723
  • Mar 2, 2015 1:37am Mar 2, 2015 1:37am
Quoting alex8585
{quote} I will try to explain what is the issue. Lets say that i set ST 200 pips (large enough) and set TakeProfitMultiplier 2 so TP will be 400 pips. I aslo set SetStopLossToBreakEven after 15 pips. And the price moves lets say in our favour 100 pips , Breakeven is activated but the trailing stop not due to the large SL , and after that when price reverses we stay at Breakeven with some pips only , but if we could make it adjustable and the trail will be triggered sooner lets say after 30 -50 pips then we can get some more pips and i think and...
I could add some code to recognise the MinimumPipsRequired as the new level.
  • #724
  • Mar 2, 2015 2:14am Mar 2, 2015 2:14am
Quoting Dave_C
{quote} I could add some code to recognise the MinimumPipsRequired as the new level.
That would be really good to adjust when the trail to be triggered but after it is triggered how it is gonna trail , it will be fixed again by 5% or it will be also customable ?
  • #725
  • Mar 2, 2015 2:22am Mar 2, 2015 2:22am
Quoting alex8585
{quote} That would be really good to adjust when the trail to be triggered but after it is triggered how it is gonna trail , it will be fixed again by 5% or it will be also customable ?
The 5% figure is fixed by design to prevent excessive adjustments. (That is 5% increase in value of investment) I've previously been approached by brokers regarding excessive updates.
  • #726
  • Edited 3:06am Mar 2, 2015 2:47am | Edited 3:06am
Quoting Dave_C
{quote} The 5% figure is fixed by design to prevent excessive adjustments. (That is 5% increase in value of investment) I've previously been approached by brokers regarding excessive updates.
Dave if you could tell me according to my previous example in 722 , after you add MinimumPipsRequired where the SL would have been hit.
Because i understand 100 pips * 5% = 5 pips (edited) right ? I really don't get the calculation of the trail.

By the way i want to THANK you once again , you helped me to cut my way for testing enormously . Now i can see what i was missing .
  • #727
  • Edited 4:24am Mar 2, 2015 3:33am | Edited 4:24am
Quoting alex8585
{quote} Dave if you could tell me according to my previous example in 722 , after you add MinimumPipsRequired where the SL would have been hit. Because i understand 100 pips * 5% = 5 pips (edited) right ? I really don't get the calculation of the trail. By the way i want to THANK you once again , you helped me to cut my way for testing enormously . Now i can see what i was missing .
30 to 50 pips, whatever you set as MinimumPipsRequired. BreakEven is operative until you get to MinimumPipsRequired + BreakEvenPips then MinimumPipsRequired cuts in until you get to StopLoss + MinimumPipsRequired then StopLoss cuts in. The 5% is simply the level at which these calculations are reviewed.

I might add that I would never choose this option because you are ignoring the whole concept of optimization and you are overcomplicating matters which do not need to be this complicated. Why not just let SL and TP run their natural course with the available variables. I believe the majority do not need any further twists.
  • #728
  • Mar 2, 2015 4:10am Mar 2, 2015 4:10am
Quoting Dave_C
{quote} 30 to 50 pips, whatever you set as MinimumPipsRequired. BreakEven is operative until you get to MinimumPipsRequired + BreakEvenPips then MinimumPipsRequired cuts in until you get to StopLoss + MinimumPipsRequired then StopLoss cuts in. The 5% is simply the level at which these calculations are reviewed. I might add that I would never choose this option because you are ignoring the whole concept of optimization.
No my friend don't add it if you really believe that it won't benefit the concept , i don't want to be on another page than you do.

I just thought after having 100 pips gain and then give it away and stay finally only with breakeven and not take lets say 30 - 40 pips .
My general thought was to increase our pips gain from every move in our favour even if it is small to our initial SL , but as soon as you believe it won't work just bypass it.
  • #729
  • Mar 2, 2015 5:01am Mar 2, 2015 5:01am
Quoting alex8585
{quote} No my friend don't add it if you really believe that it won't benefit the concept , i don't want to be on another page than you do. I just thought after having 100 pips gain and then give it away and stay finally only with breakeven and not take lets say 30 - 40 pips . My general thought was to increase our pips gain from every move in our favour even if it is small to our initial SL , but as soon as you believe it won't work just bypass it.
Alex, the point is that you are pulling numbers out of the air rather than letting the market tell you its behaviour which is what optimization is all about. Not about long term but really current thinking. Using our own perceptions is not the right way to approach the market. I know your pet project is micro money management and my EA is probably too generic for you but I am trying to keep balance in this thread.
  • #730
  • Mar 2, 2015 5:28am Mar 2, 2015 5:28am
Quoting Dave_C
{quote} Alex, the point is that you are pulling numbers out of the air rather than letting the market tell you its behaviour which is what optimization is all about. Not about long term but really current thinking. Using our own perceptions is not the right way to approach the market. I know your pet project is micro money management and my EA is probably too generic for you but I am trying to keep balance in this thread.
At this point you are right. Maybe it is time to create my own thread for an EA based on my rules for Money Managment only not entries , maybe someone could help me on that.

Because i don't want to mess your thread , and your point of view is correct to keep in balance the thread.
  • #731
  • Mar 2, 2015 8:41am Mar 2, 2015 8:41am
Quoting Dave_C
{quote} Alex, the point is that you are pulling numbers out of the air rather than letting the market tell you its behaviour which is what optimization is all about. Not about long term but really current thinking. Using our own perceptions is not the right way to approach the market. I know your pet project is micro money management and my EA is probably too generic for you but I am trying to keep balance in this thread.

Many thanks to you Dave for the wonderful work you are doing.

I think i'm beginning to understand Alex's view on this particular issue. My problem is that it could be an existing function in the EA and just missing on how to use it.

Dave, what should i do in a situation like this......

In a trade, I get 70 pips and I'm not ready to quit the trade (TP), neither do I want to lose all the green pips due to price reversal. What should i do?

I think the best option in a situation like this is to be able to adjust the trailing so as to keep some green pips in case there is a reversal.

Something like a code;
//after every 20 pips gain, adjust trail to say.... 50% of the gain/// (Just an example)

Sorry i cant put this into a code.

This is my view. Sorry if i'm making noise.
  • #732
  • Mar 2, 2015 10:11am Mar 2, 2015 10:11am
Quoting Dave_C
{quote} If you want to recalculate the value of the StopLoss again at OrderModify, just insert the following two lines at line 1395. if (OrderType() == OP_BUY && StopLossATRPeriods != 0 && UseTrailingStopLoss == 1) StopLossPrice = Bid - (iATR(Symbol(),0,StopLossATRPeriods,0)* StopLossMultiplier); if (OrderType() == OP_SELL && StopLossATRPeriods != 0 && UseTrailingStopLoss == 1) StopLossPrice = Ask + (iATR(Symbol(),0,StopLossATRPeriods,0)* StopLossMultiplier);
Thanks, I'll look into it.
  • #733
  • Edited 2:51pm Mar 2, 2015 2:39pm | Edited 2:51pm
Quoting Bengorro
{quote} Many thanks to you Dave for the wonderful work you are doing. I think i'm beginning to understand Alex's view on this particular issue. My problem is that it could be an existing function in the EA and just missing on how to use it. Dave, what should i do in a situation like this...... In a trade, I get 70 pips and I'm not ready to quit the trade (TP), neither do I want to lose all the green pips due to price reversal. What should i do? I think the best option in a situation like this is to be able to adjust the trailing so as to keep some...
Yes this is precisely the issue that Alex is raising. I suggested that we use the input called MinPipGain which acts as a trigger for the StopLossMultiplier which was intended to be like a half way point to TakeProfit. So in effect we have the trigger for BreakEven, the half way point - MinPipGain, and finally the trailing StopLoss.

The scenario Alex posed was that he wanted more latitude in managing his trade together with more review other than just every 5% change in profit.

I have some concerns.....

1. The review of StopLoss is fixed at 5% increments and I do not want the frequency to be changed because I would have to introduce another variable.
2. It is quite clear that things are complicated enough already. Users have spoken!
3. I don't believe this issue is being tackled the correct way. Optimization with the available tools was my counter.
4. This would not necessarily be the end of this issue.

This is coming fresh off a debate on ATR where other specialised styles of trade closure had been discussed. I was happy to use the MinPipGain as a tool for additional management of the trade because I would not have to introduce any more inputs and I explained the mechanics in Post #727 but draw the line there, so if you care to refine the considerations based on the existing, I will provide that solution.

With regard the adjustable trailing StopLoss, you have the tools already. It is adjustable at every 5% increase in profit. Post #665 refers.
  • #734
  • Edited 10:55pm Mar 2, 2015 3:26pm | Edited 10:55pm
It's probably an appropriate time to remind everybody of the function of inputs,

They act as a trigger to the EA to make a particular type of decision and you have complete control of that decision by varying the value.
Lets use the current debate on managing trades. Is it better to shoot for 200 pips or 10 pips many times. Is a risk reward of 1:1.5 better than 1:2?

Is it better to use a 5/30 EMA Cross or a 50/200 Cross. We can always get a definitive answer on back testing and optimization because we can make many runs through all the combinations.

Can that be fine tuned with an RSI cross. If so how many bars should we look back. Run an optimization (2 to 10 bars ago). Are 70/30 the appropriate levels? Should we use RSI(14)? Try values of 5 to 20 step 1.

Am I being let down by daily pivot levels?

Should I restrict trading to only the EUR and US sessions?

Why not just trade divergence and nothing else?

Why not just candlestick patterns. Are candle sticks profitable on less than 1 hour charts?

These are the tools that you have and is the intent of the EA.

Does the trading have to be automatic. No, you have advisory and discretionary modes. Your advisory mode can be by email or messaging.
Never forget that this is just technical analysis. The bigger picture is fundamental.

Please take my and others advice and forget about extended back testing periods and use something like the last 3 months. Verify your theories with out of sample back tests, tick data and forward testing using demo accounts. Most users don't realise that there is no limit on Demo accounts in MT4. They do expire after 1 month. Just open a new one. Open 5 new ones. If you are sick of locating the inputs in hidden directories, open MT4 using the /portable option. Install to a memory stick or a portable or network hard drive so you can easily use the program anywhere. If you don't understand, Google it.
  • #735
  • Mar 2, 2015 9:38pm Mar 2, 2015 9:38pm
Some are making this way too complicated. If you do not have a good strategy, no money management is going to make up for it. Dave is correct, tests over several years are useless! Test for 4 months max. Once you get a good result for the previous 4 month period, test for the past year. If the results are poor, it is almost certain that your 4 month test will not survive the next 3 months. If, however, your 1 year test produces good results, you may have a winning strategy.....do a forward test. This EA covers just about everything necessary to find a winning strategy, if there are any. I am currently running tests on several strategies, if results are good will post results, hope others will do the same.
  • #736
  • Edited 1:17am Mar 3, 2015 12:16am | Edited 1:17am
TradersGift Trading Concept - TakeProfit and StopLoss levels have been reduced to $100 see Post #721.

EDIT: It has just shut down all trades having achieved the $100 target for the day. If you look at the TradeExplorer at the top of the page, the only order is the dummy BUY_LIMIT which is the signal to the TradersGift EA to stop trading. Trading will recommence at 00:00:00 with a starting equity of $10106 with the plus or minus $100 scenario.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2015-03-03 07_12_41-2011421_ GlobalPrime-Demo - Demo Account - [AUDUSD,M1].jpg Size: 251 KB
  • #737
  • Mar 3, 2015 7:44am Mar 3, 2015 7:44am
Hi Dave

its a shame we cant back test using the Close EA as well, would be interesting. I am forward testing at the moment using a 2% decreasing stoploss and £150 a day target on a £5000 account. I am also restricting trading to Frankfurt open and new york close.
  • #738
  • Mar 3, 2015 12:09pm Mar 3, 2015 12:09pm
Hello Dave,

have a question, how do you/we know the EA still control the order or pending orders? e.g (if we have to reboot system or MT4)
just my idea... maybe to add number of orders and pending orders in the info area? (and/or profit/loss of pips and in value)
  • #739
  • Mar 3, 2015 12:33pm Mar 3, 2015 12:33pm
Quoting nobby911
Hi Dave its a shame we cant back test using the Close EA as well, would be interesting. I am forward testing at the moment using a 2% decreasing stoploss and 150 a day target on a 5000 account. I am also restricting trading to Frankfurt open and new york close.
I agree with you. My initial thought is to run the EA for 1 week on +- $100 just to verify the mechanics and then try +- $150 for 2nd week and then +- $200 for 3rd week and then remove the close trades EA completely on the 4th week.
  • #740
  • Mar 3, 2015 12:42pm Mar 3, 2015 12:42pm
Quoting micello
Hello Dave, have a question, how do you/we know the EA still control the order or pending orders? e.g (if we have to reboot system or MT4) just my idea... maybe to add number of orders and pending orders in the info area? (and/or profit/loss of pips and in value)
The pending orders are always under the control of MT4 even if you reboot your system and TradersGift is always monitoring any active trades with a matching Magic Number even if your system is rebooted. The number of active and pending orders together with profit/loss, is always shown in the terminal window, trade tab, anyway and are easily identified if you have enabled the display of the comments column. (make sure you give the particular EA a meaningful comment in the inputs).
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