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Institutional Equivalent Education?

  • #21
  • Feb 16, 2015 6:22am Feb 16, 2015 6:22am
Quoting ianf0ster
For full disclosure, I am a student not paid by Compass or anybody else. I run a completely FREE self - help group for Ray's Students so we can learn faster and better.
Where do you run a self help group?
Thanks
  • #22
  • Feb 19, 2015 2:28am Feb 19, 2015 2:28am
Any reason why Ray uses low volume nodes on the price chart but high volume nodes on the footprint chart to bracket price action?

Also, at one point he is explaining value areas in terms of fundamentals i.e last price of negative or positive news release. But then later explains value in terms of MP. Which does he use?

Interesting to see Eusebio from the Max there as a student!

Also interesting is the fxcompass student who now trades for a living and demonstrates how he trades in the video. His only reference to sentiment is to look at ff calendar. Then identifies areas of low volume nodes and creates scenarios for the next day to trade off. Very simplistic. But isn't the market always forward looking in terms of fundamentals, so where the student/teacher is looking at past figures, it does not accurately determine sentiment.

Ian, are you now starting to find consistency in your Day trading after 11 months with Ray?
  • #23
  • Feb 23, 2015 2:42am Feb 23, 2015 2:42am
Quoting traden4x
{quote} Where do you run a self help group? Thanks
The self help group uses a suite of Hipchat rooms (for documentation, indicators and videos) and a Group Skype for chat.

Members must be current subscribing students (at the time they join us), have some trading experience and agree to our rules - see attached old format Word Document
Attached File(s)
File Type: doc SelfHelpGroup-Aims-and-Rules.doc   20 KB | 618 downloads
  • #24
  • Feb 23, 2015 3:01am Feb 23, 2015 3:01am
Quoting Porkpie
Any reason why Ray uses low volume nodes on the price chart but high volume nodes on the footprint chart to bracket price action? Also, at one point he is explaining value areas in terms of fundamentals i.e last price of negative or positive news release. But then later explains value in terms of MP. Which does he use? Interesting to see Eusebio from the Max there as a student! Also interesting is the fxcompass student who now trades for a living and demonstrates how he trades in the video. His only reference to sentiment is to look at ff calendar....
The confusion about Ray's use of Low Volume Nodes together with 'leaning against high volume' come about because of the nature of rejections at price extremes and of POCs/Balance Areas.

The highest total volume in a price area is always at the POC/Balance area for the simple reason that there is 2-way price action there and price spends a long time there because it is at a price which is considered reasonably fair by both buyers and sellers. However the Highest volume on any single price bar will almost always be at an extreme in other words it is caused by a rejection i.e at a price which is very good value for one side and bad value for the other and thus is inside a low volume node. Thus Ray leans against High Volume within Low Volume Nodes.

You are correct, that the market is forward looking- so after all relevant news for a currency is out for a day, it starts to price in the expected value as it will be after the next news release(s) i.e. where price will be after the next news. This is where a decent news calendar comes in - not just for past news, but for upcoming news forecasts. This is the basis for all proper institutional style News Trading.

I am working on my trading psychology problems, but know that they are the last thing holding me back - and I didn't even realize they existed until I had no non-psychological excuses for losing money.
  • #25
  • Feb 23, 2015 3:03am Feb 23, 2015 3:03am
If anybody has signed up for Ray's training and wants to join the Self Help Group please Skype me ianf0ster that is a zero in my name just like my id here on FF.
  • #26
  • Mar 14, 2015 10:11pm Mar 14, 2015 10:11pm
how's everyone doing after joining Ray's training ?
  • #27
  • Mar 17, 2015 1:15pm Mar 17, 2015 1:15pm
Quoting forexoleo
how's everyone doing after joining Ray's training ?
I don't know how each of the 200+ students are doing. I am surprised that you would think that I might.
I don't even know how each of the 120 members of my self help group subset of Ray's students are doing.

I am still trying to add more trades to my basic Over/UnderCooked and OSTs.
They are very successful for me at around 70% > 1R, 20% 0 to 0.9R, 10% -1R
There just aren't enough of them per week.

The London Rejection and the London Drive backtest well, but I find it hard to be at my screen for 7am after a Briefing ending after midnight.
The GJ options unwind trade also backtests well, but I am often in other trades and am distracted and thus miss it.
I don't read Orderflow well enough on MT4 to get many of the Squeezes and have yet to find time to set up Sierra Chart with Delta and Numbers Bars.
I have yet to gain the confidence to trade the News Sentiment trades.

So I am still working very hard to be able to incorporate some of the above into my trading.
  • #28
  • Apr 8, 2015 9:01pm Apr 8, 2015 9:01pm
This guy Ian is nothing but a lemming following the next Guru and in a year from now will wind up chasing the next Guru.
  • #29
  • Apr 13, 2015 2:03am Apr 13, 2015 2:03am
Hi Gob, I can see why you might say that. However do you really think that after spending a whole year learning from Ray (and he hasn't finished yet) that any trading Guru would measure up?

Other people generally teach a couple of subjects and a few setups. Ray teaches everything that retail traders can use that he has learned as a trader and a Quant over the last 30 yrs.

Have you even seen somebody still employed as a Quant who also teaches retail traders? I have never come seen anybody even come close to either Ray's knowledge and experience, or even his chart reading abilities.
  • #30
  • Apr 24, 2015 5:19am Apr 24, 2015 5:19am
Quoting Gobigfx
This guy Ian is nothing but a lemming following the next Guru and in a year from now will wind up chasing the next Guru.
LOL! The more people that think like you the better for the rest of us. 'Guru'? Do you want to learn from an institutional trader or do you want to learn from someone who thinks they know what the institutional traders do? Honestly, know where to look for the right knowledge and get out of the retail mindset...
  • #31
  • Jun 14, 2015 9:52am Jun 14, 2015 9:52am
Quoting ianf0ster
Hi Gob, I can see why you might say that. However do you really think that after spending a whole year learning from Ray (and he hasn't finished yet) that any trading Guru would measure up? Other people generally teach a couple of subjects and a few setups. Ray teaches everything that retail traders can use that he has learned as a trader and a Quant over the last 30 yrs. Have you even seen somebody still employed as a Quant who also teaches retail traders? I have never come seen anybody even come close to either Ray's knowledge and experience,...
Are you making $$$ ?

No your not and I know that because if you were you wouldn't be posting in here.

I've been making money as a trader for many years and I rarely if ever come into these forums until recently when I have semi retired from trading and now wish to give something back.

I wish you well from this guru and hope you finally make $$$ but I don't think you will. You sound too much like a Dream Chaser.
  • #32
  • Jun 15, 2015 1:35am Jun 15, 2015 1:35am
I don't understand why you equate occasionally posting in FF with not making money. Though somebody who posts many times per day may not have enough time left over for actual trading.

There are some trades on which I consistently make money, but often I then throw it away on stupid trades that I know before I take them will have a low probability of success. Are you implying that my psychological trading problems and baggage are a reflection of the training I am currently getting?
Perhaps when you were at school everybody was equal top of the class and nobody ever failed exams!

Ian
  • #33
  • Jun 15, 2015 1:52am Jun 15, 2015 1:52am
Quoting Gobigfx
{quote} Are you making $$$ ? No your not and I know that because if you were you wouldn't be posting in here. I've been making money as a trader for many years and I rarely if ever come into these forums until recently when I have semi retired from trading and now wish to give something back. I wish you well from this guru and hope you finally make $$$ but I don't think you will. You sound too much like a Dream Chaser.
English lesson Gobigfx...."No your not and I know that because if you were you wouldn't be posting in here." Here is what you are trying to say...."No you're not etc.
  • #34
  • Jun 15, 2015 6:56am Jun 15, 2015 6:56am
Quoting ianf0ster
I don't understand why you equate occasionally posting in FF with not making money. Though somebody who posts many times per day may not have enough time left over for actual trading. There are some trades on which I consistently make money, but often I then throw it away on stupid trades that I know before I take them will have a low probability of success. Are you implying that my psychological trading problems and baggage are a reflection of the training I am currently getting? Perhaps when you were at school everybody was equal top of the class...
I am implying you are not an institution so even if this gentleman your learning from is for real and I have no reason to believe he is not or is. What good will it do you to learn to trade like him when you do not have his resources?

I worked for several institutions myself and even I can not duplicate what I was able to do when I worked there. I had to find a new way to trade on my own with the resources I have.

Knowledge does not equal profits in trading because the markets are "mostly" random order filling.
  • #35
  • Jun 22, 2015 6:15am Jun 22, 2015 6:15am
Quoting Gobigfx
{quote} I am implying you are not an institution so even if this gentleman your learning from is for real and I have no reason to believe he is not or is. What good will it do you to learn to trade like him when you do not have his resources?
My view is that it is almost impossible to be long term successful UNLESS you know at least something about how the institutions trade. And by that I mean all the main types of institutions, since they all trade differently and have different business models. Otherwise how can you even understand the COT?

Market Makers = Liquidity Providers (who of course are Non-Directional - Steve Mauro is wrong about them).

Bank Order Takers who are looking to fill orders for clients. Non-speculative ,mainly multi-national companies. This is the bulk of Forex trades to which I think you allude. It is some of these guys who are being prosecuted (somewhat unfairly in my opinion) for rigging the daily fix.

Commercial (Hedgers) - those who sell products (options, forwards locks etc).

Asset Managers/large speculators - long term focused, can't move fast because of size.

Dealers - those who must take the opposite side of the trade, so are net short when their clients are net long and vice versa.

Predatory Prop Desks - who use leverage and aim to exploit all the other types of institutional trader. This is where Ray is situated. These are the institutional guys whose business model is most closely aligned to us retail traders. A surprising amount of the information used by Ray is actually available to us retail traders in a form which is often delayed but still usable. But you have to know what it is, how to get it and how to use it.
  • #36
  • Edited 7:56am Jul 23, 2015 7:44am | Edited 7:56am
If anybody is interested in taking a look at what Ray does, Compass have 2 open to all sessions. They sent out an email which I have attached as a (old format) Word Doc.

As before, if you register for the sessions you will get access details for the Omnovia room - then you can go in there and view recordings of prior sessions at your leisure. They are listed in a Drop Down Box at the bottem left of the screen- it is called Documents'.
When you double click on a recording you need to tell it to open it in another Window. You will then have to input a first name and a last name (but you don't have to use your real name - it worked using Donald Duck.

Here are the registration links: Please register for each event separately:
Predatory Market Briefing Session: Thursday July 23rd Starts at 6:00 PM EASTERN
http://compassfx.omnovia.com/register/66661437512949

LIVE Predatory Trade Session: Friday July 24th at 9:15 AM EASTERN
http://compassfx.omnovia.com/register/25771437513235
Attached File(s)
File Type: doc Prop-Experiance-Registration.doc   29 KB | 503 downloads
  • #37
  • Jul 23, 2015 3:09pm Jul 23, 2015 3:09pm
Quoting ianf0ster
{quote} My view is that it is almost impossible to be long term successful UNLESS you know at least something about how the institutions trade. And by that I mean all the main types of institutions, since they all trade differently and have different business models. Otherwise how can you even understand the COT? Market Makers = Liquidity Providers (who of course are Non-Directional - Steve Mauro is wrong about them). Bank Order Takers who are looking to fill orders for clients. Non-speculative ,mainly multi-national companies. This is the bulk...
If I was a swing trader I would agree with you however day trading is different. Institutions build inventory and hold positions for longer periods of time and if they are wrong they average down and/or hedge their positions until the inventory comes back into alignment.

What your failing to realize is that you are not an institution you probably can't build inventory or hedge unless you have a very large account. At the bank I work at if I get caught in a position and we are upside down we almost never take a loss on it because all we do is hedge the position and slowly build back into the inventory so unless you have a spare 10 million to 1 billion lying around although understanding institutions is a nice thing its like learning to fish for great white sharks and only living close to a river were there are a few salmon. Interesting but not practical for the average forex trader with a 5 to 20k account.
  • #38
  • Jul 27, 2015 5:43pm Jul 27, 2015 5:43pm
"What your failing to realize is that you are not an institution you probably can't build inventory or hedge unless you have a very large account. At the bank I work at if I get caught in a position and we are upside down we almost never take a loss on it because all we do is hedge the position and slowly build back into the inventory so unless you have a spare 10 million to 1 billion lying around although understanding institutions is a nice thing its like learning to fish for great white sharks and only living close to a river were there are a few salmon. Interesting but not practical for the average forex trader with a 5 to 20k account."

With respect, I'm not interested in how the bank YOU work at trades - unless like Ray you are a Quant designing both short and longer term strategies fro Predatory Prop Firms and Banks. From the way you describe your trading, your Desk is just the type of whale which is Ray's main prey- big but sluggish and slow to react! Not only that, but you appear not to even know of the existence of the predatory desks at banks who are his clients (who I admit are fewer in number since the imposition of so many regulations about proprietory trading). He specifically tailors the strategies he teaches us so that they are relevant to Retail Traders.

But this does not change the fact that whilst Ray trades on the larger timeframes, he also trades on the 1hr , the 5min and also has an employee trading the 1min charts. Most of his strategies ARE valid for Spot FX traders who can afford to trade micro accounts where 4 micros is less than 2% of the account, or Futures traders who can afford to trade 4 contracts. But one of his students (a business owner called Peter F.) has a large enough account to be able to use Gamma Scalping as taught by Ray, which requires about a $500K account.
  • #39
  • Edited 6:20am Jul 28, 2015 6:08am | Edited 6:20am
I'm not a member of the Compass FX prop room but have learned a lot from watching the free webinars.

I certainly think 'Ray' knows his stuff and is very interesting to listen to. The last free webinar was very interesting about using volume to lean against and volume was the 'secret sauce' of trading. Ideally one should trade away from volume, even though student trades are shown in the room where they trade 'top and bottom edge' which would I have thought imply trading into the 'brick wall' of volume where 'value' lies ( or maybe I'm misunderstanding).

However then he will go off on a rant or a ramble then I wonder if he's actually a quant because he says odd things, which (I find) quite contradictory (to be fair he is very passionate and his screen webinars which appear to be unscripted ).

For example he will have a rant about say Fibonacci but I can virtually guarantee that if you were to put a fib on the 'balance areas' he draws in and refers to, they would more often than not correspond to major Fib levels.

Its odd that Compass that sell indicators (many of them fine tools) have a room so condemning of indicators (indeed many of the charts that Ray pulls up are littered with various CompassFX indicators).

I had to laugh when Ray said "its not about a heiken ashi changing colour, its not about an indicator going green' this seemed to be a dig at Synergy and D.O.T.S which Compass also sell. Excellent they both are, I defy anyone not to be able to make money using them properly.

We are all well aware that Fibs in themselves don't drive the markets any more than a moving average does, but they are a way of modeling market, which he as a quant I'd have thought would be interested in.

I won't be joining but if I had the kind of account or net worth that could trade Gamma scalping I would. But I have to confess not many are teaching this kind of stuff as well as Ray is doing. It might be worth forum members signing up for the free webinars and asking existing students in the room, when they open it up.

There seems to have been a change of line up. Has Stephen gone, I assume replaced by Eliott the 'market maker?' Also in the current sales run not heard from the former room student who started working/trading for CompassFX.

By the way you don't need billions of dollars to become a multi lot trader. Indeed Ray suggests downsizing your lots to allow you to manage positions. No reason why you couldn't trade 0.10 a pip, or even microlots in order to practice trading and averaging positions like an institution would, if you want to.
  • #40
  • Edited 9:35am Aug 1, 2015 7:38am | Edited 9:35am
Quoting hostwey
I'm not a member of the Compass FX prop room but have learned a lot from watching the free webinars. I certainly think 'Ray' knows his stuff and is very interesting to listen to. The last free webinar was very interesting about using volume to lean against and volume was the 'secret sauce' of trading. Ideally one should trade away from volume, even though student trades are shown in the room where they trade 'top and bottom edge' which would I have thought imply trading into the 'brick wall' of volume where 'value' lies ( or maybe I'm misunderstanding)....

Hi Hostwey,
I think you are missing out by not signing up for the classes, but that is just because I have tried and failed with so very many indicator based systems and courses. I have failed with Dean Malone's DOTs (+ Guppys) and with his Synergy indicators. I have failed with Steve Mauro's Ms and Ws, and I have even failed with the MAX - even though I know that it works, it just has too many indicators to cross-check for me.

Compass are an Introducing Broker and an education provider. Ray is unique in the Retail space, he does not provide an 'easy button'. Compass regognise that many people are not prepared to put in the work required to learn to trade properly and thus prefer an easy but inferior method. Even though Ray generally criticizes Indicators, Fibs etc. instructors of courses which many indicators still recommend him to their students i.e. Eusebio Nanni of the MAX and two guys (Scott(?) or Sterling(?) and Chad) of a course whose name I keep forgetting who regularly direct their members to Ray.

Even Ray recognizes that there is a place for indicators when traders can't see the structures he teaches on naked charts. His point is that contrary to what many claim, it is Fundamentals NOT technicals which ultimately move the Markets, that nearly all indicators are derivatives of price and thus lag and that if you draw Fibs between every swing high and swing low on a chart you will have so many lines that certainly price will react at some of them (though there will be at least as many that it doesn't react at). He point out that where price does react at a Fib level, it does so purely because the Fib level just happens to be at place where the underlying concepts he teaches say that it is likely to react.

I am amazed that you have doubts about Ray being a Quant because of his dislike for Fibs and Indicators. He build many (if not most) of his Algos based upon Order Flow and Price pressure, but he also uses Time Biases, Volume Analysis and other concepts.
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