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Prime of Prime Broker

  • #101
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:31pm Feb 22, 2015 1:31pm
Quoting M967
{quote} FIXI: who is their PB bank? What platforms and LP they offer? What kind of seggragation they offer?
Citi and DB, it's all these, very usual suspects.

LPs obviously those ECNs, CX, HS, Integral, Flextrade, etc. (Oh Dymon uses Flextrade extensively, a 4.1 Billion Macro fund in Singapore)
The LPs of the banks, obviously the usual 30 banks of suspects.

Then, some price takers, and probably Citadel as a LP.
  • #102
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:32pm Feb 22, 2015 1:32pm
Quoting M967
{quote} I heard about very strange Citi support stuff, they don't care about clients at all.
I haven't dealt with the non institutional side, so I cannot be very clear on how they deal with retail guys. Sorry.

But, I think, their PB business is a bit bust and has to restructure, so not very good.
  • #103
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:32pm Feb 22, 2015 1:32pm
Quoting M967
{quote} I think Pricemarkets can be an option as well. They accept bank's guarantee, no need to open account with them, can offer clearing service to EBS platform through their Prime Bank, I think that's not bad option at all.
They offering 1% leverage, hence 1:100 on majors. 6% on NDFs.

So how do they finance that extra 50 times? Bucket? Probably.

They are owned by some Aussie company too, odd.
  • #104
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:34pm Feb 22, 2015 1:34pm
Quoting M967
{quote} I think Pricemarkets can be an option as well. They accept bank's guarantee, no need to open account with them, can offer clearing service to EBS platform through their Prime Bank, I think that's not bad option at all.
Would this remind you the smell of fish?

Price Markets (UK) is a trading name of Finsa Europe Limited (FINSA) which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority.
FCA Registered Number 525164. Company number: 07073413.
Registered address: 110 Fenchurch Street, London, EC3M 5JT, United Kingdom.

Price Markets Prime Brokerage is a trading name of Velocity Trade International (VTI) which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority.
FCA Registered Number 497263. Company number: 06813279.
Registered address: 3rd Floor, 80 Cannon Street, London, EC4N 6HL, United Kingdom.

Two seperate entities for two businesses when they are "essentially the same"
  • #105
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:35pm Feb 22, 2015 1:35pm
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} Would this remind you the smell of fish? Price Markets (UK) is a trading name of Finsa Europe Limited (FINSA) which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. FCA Registered Number 525164. Company number: 07073413. Registered address: 110 Fenchurch Street, London, EC3M 5JT, United Kingdom. Price Markets Prime Brokerage is a trading name of Velocity Trade International (VTI) which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. FCA Registered Number 497263. Company number: 06813279. Registered address:...
They used to belong to LCG. Velocity bought Pricemarkets last year.
  • #106
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:38pm Feb 22, 2015 1:38pm
Quoting MaximeCau
{quote} They used to belong to LCG. Velocity bought Pricemarkets last year.
Not gonna go with someone who gives 1:100 anyways. Risky.
  • #107
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:39pm Feb 22, 2015 1:39pm
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} I haven't dealt with the non institutional side, so I cannot be very clear on how they deal with retail guys. Sorry. But, I think, their PB business is a bit bust and has to restructure, so not very good.
I don't refer to retail, only institutional. I wonder about Bank vs Pop, what's better?
  • #108
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:40pm Feb 22, 2015 1:40pm
Quoting M967
{quote} I don't refer to retail, only institutional. I wonder about Bank vs Pop, what's better?
POP? Sorry, don't get it.
  • #109
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:41pm Feb 22, 2015 1:41pm
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} POP? Sorry, don't get it.
POP = Prime of Prime broker
  • #110
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:42pm Feb 22, 2015 1:42pm
Quoting M967
{quote} I don't refer to retail, only institutional. I wonder about Bank vs Pop, what's better?
Oh Prime of Prime sorry.

PoP > Bank for Individuals trading soft flow

Bank > PoP for Individuals trading heavy flow e.g. 25 bucks +

PoP > Bank For any funds < 5 - 10 Mil (Most PB dont take on funds less than 20 Million at the start.)

Banks > PoP for any funds higher than 30 mil using multiple counterparty
  • #111
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:44pm Feb 22, 2015 1:44pm
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} Citi and DB, it's all these, very usual suspects. LPs obviously those ECNs, CX, HS, Integral, Flextrade, etc. (Oh Dymon uses Flextrade extensively, a 4.1 Billion Macro fund in Singapore) The LPs of the banks, obviously the usual 30 banks of suspects. Then, some price takers, and probably Citadel as a LP.
To good to be true. Advanced markets, CapMar, fixi, the same PB pair of banks. Why they need 2 PB?
  • #112
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:45pm Feb 22, 2015 1:45pm
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} Oh Prime of Prime sorry. PoP > Bank for Individuals trading soft flow Bank > PoP for Individuals trading heavy flow e.g. 25 bucks + PoP > Bank For any funds < 5 - 10 Mil (Most PB dont take on funds less than 20 Million at the start.) Banks > PoP for any funds higher than 30 mil using multiple counterparty
So POP are better for active traders and Banks better for big players ?
  • #113
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:48pm Feb 22, 2015 1:48pm
Quoting MaximeCau
{quote} So POP are better for active traders and Banks better for big players ?
In theory PoP has good liquidity at any given time as long as you're a good one.

Banks are needed for credit, credibility to clients (e.g. I can't tell my Client I'm managing his assets at FIXI/Price/IG, who in theory and legally if go bankrupt I can't do anything about.), collaterals, multiple counter party dealing, making sure that the flows you get are from well capitalised counter parties which won't go bankrupt, providing research on markets, providing risk analysis at a very high level, providing cap intro for funds. < These are why you need a PB.

If not, and you're just trading at home, don't use a PB, a PoP would work.
  • #114
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:49pm Feb 22, 2015 1:49pm
Quoting M967
{quote} To good to be true. Advanced markets, CapMar, fixi, the same PB pair of banks. Why they need 2 PB?
It's always good to have two prime brokers to separate counter party risk.

One in US and one in Europe makes a lot of difference.

E.G. ECB QE can give DB more room to give more margin and credit to PB clients hence higher leverage for FIXI offering, it's very strategic.
  • #115
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:49pm Feb 22, 2015 1:49pm
Quoting MaximeCau
{quote} You have to trade 100M a month. Difficult for retail customers....
Agree.
  • #116
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:53pm Feb 22, 2015 1:53pm
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} It's always good to have two prime brokers to separate counter party risk. One in US and one in Europe makes a lot of difference. E.G. ECB QE can give DB more room to give more margin and credit to PB clients hence higher leverage for FIXI offering, it's very strategic.
Anyway seems you're ready to follow Fixi. Do they offer their brand named platform?
  • #117
  • Feb 22, 2015 1:55pm Feb 22, 2015 1:55pm
Quoting M967
{quote} Anyway seems you're ready to follow Fixi. Do they offer their brand named platform?
Not really, but there doesn't seem to be too many options out there after LCG shut their facking PoP offering.

You're not going to go with FxPro PoP and trade on MT4 right?

They offer any 3rd party software eg

CX, HS, 360T, FlexTrade, Integral and you trade through that. That's all.

For another one which is slightly , well actually significantly smaller, you can trade on multiple platforms and settle on one PB account with the broker. That one is slightly more interesting and slightly different, but their small size does cause some issues which is to be concerned about, eg. Citi getting pissed off with their volumes and kicking them out.

FIXI has very good com too $15 per buck offering 0.1 pips on EURUSD .
  • #118
  • Feb 22, 2015 2:00pm Feb 22, 2015 2:00pm
Quoting plotinus82
{quote} It's always good to have two prime brokers to separate counter party risk. One in US and one in Europe makes a lot of difference. E.G. ECB QE can give DB more room to give more margin and credit to PB clients hence higher leverage for FIXI offering, it's very strategic.
I really did not hear a lot about Fixi up to date. Pricemarkets also use Citi and DB. I heard something about JPM used to be Fixi PB, as LCG as well, but suddenly Citi and DB???
  • #119
  • Feb 22, 2015 2:03pm Feb 22, 2015 2:03pm
Quoting M967
{quote} I really did not hear a lot about Fixi up to date. Pricemarkets also use Citi and DB. I heard something about JPM used to be Fixi PB, as LCG as well, but suddenly Citi and DB???
Probs changed, I'll dig. But irrelevant not a decision maker.

JPM is very good for credit:

My friend who's head of Macro for a 13 Billion dollar fund got a 20 second call "No credit, liquidating everything now" then 20 minutes later Merrill went down and sold it to BofA, so obviously Lehman failed too.
  • #120
  • Feb 22, 2015 2:05pm Feb 22, 2015 2:05pm
Does anyone here has experience with High Frequency Market Making in the FX area? PM me please thanks
Forex is a losers game.
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