Brokers chasing you for negative account balance | Page 27 | Forex Factory

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Brokers chasing you for negative account balance

  • #521
  • Feb 11, 2015 6:39am Feb 11, 2015 6:39am
Quoting sakisf
They are closing accounts with negative if you don't fund them. Other than some e-mails "begging" you to upload funds (giving them the negative amount back as credit anyway) and a couple phone calls they don't do anything nor would they go legal. I guess you are in bad luck if you are Australian and you owe to Pepperstone, then they might go after you. Don't know what's your issue with them but it seems that you either owe them money or you had your account closed by them for an unknown (to us) reason and you are just trying to flame them...
your full of crap, they are chasing my friend for about $110k.. probably writing of the small clients but going after ther ones with money. Total scam !!
  • #522
  • Feb 11, 2015 6:55am Feb 11, 2015 6:55am
Quoting buddy1
{quote} your full of crap, they are chasing my friend for about $110k.. probably writing of the small clients but going after ther ones with money. Total scam !!

Quoting buddy1
{quote} If they asked you to pay the negative balance and you didnt pay it they have the right to take money out of any of your other accounts and dont have to inform you as they have the right of offset. By not paying a negative balance you hace defaulted so they can sue you, technically you are stealing. many brokers are suing defaulters right now. I would consider yourself lucky as they could have sued you then you would really be screwed. Why didnt you pay the negative balance anyway? Were you trying to avoid it?
So is your 'friend' not stealing when it is Pepperstone but it is when it is IC markets?

Go back to where you came from or ask FF to mark you as IC markets rep.
  • #523
  • Feb 11, 2015 7:29am Feb 11, 2015 7:29am
Quoting sakisf
{quote} {quote} So is your 'friend' not stealing when it is Pepperstone but it is when it is IC markets? Go back to where you came from or ask FF to mark you as IC markets rep.
Piss off mate, we can all see your trying to pump up a scam broker. The fact of the matter is people lost money here and your broker in particular scammed them by crashing their system for 3.5 hours then chasing negative balances. Crawl back into your hole worm! If you dont ill be forced to put some poison out !
  • #524
  • Edited 9:41am Feb 11, 2015 9:28am | Edited 9:41am
An interesting article on ForexMagnates on Saxo not forgiving the negative balances, in case you have not seen it already.

http://forexmagnates.com/negative-ba...itions-habits/

Some good articles here:

http://www.peres-partner.com/saxo-ba...-margin-calls/

and

http://www.anwalt24.de/beitraege-new...ulenzen-sitzen

They are in German, but turn on the translate, and you can see that even the lawyers are saying that whatever Saxo is doing has no legal basis.
  • #525
  • Feb 11, 2015 3:12pm Feb 11, 2015 3:12pm
Quoting buddy1
{quote} Piss off mate, we can all see your trying to pump up a scam broker. The fact of the matter is people lost money here and your broker in particular scammed them by crashing their system for 3.5 hours then chasing negative balances. Crawl back into your hole worm! If you dont ill be forced to put some poison out !
As a neutral party in this thread it looks to me like he just called you out on hypocrisy, and isn't really pumping up a broker. Either not paying negative balances is 'stealing' or it isn't.
  • #526
  • Feb 11, 2015 8:33pm Feb 11, 2015 8:33pm
Quoting 30secpause
{quote} As a neutral party in this thread it looks to me like he just called you out on hypocrisy, and isn't really pumping up a broker. Either not paying negative balances is 'stealing' or it isn't.
Of course it is stealing but its not stealing when a broker markets themselves as having negative balance protection but still chases the debt to me this is called "scamming". This is exactly what Pepperstone did.
  • #527
  • Feb 12, 2015 6:17am Feb 12, 2015 6:17am
http://www.de.sharewise.com/finanzna...EOPOLITICALBIZ
  • #528
  • Feb 12, 2015 6:36am Feb 12, 2015 6:36am
Let's put it this way, if your broker has not negative balance protection, you a liable for it if you went into the negative of the CHF because you took the risk. The broker is your risk execution venue, not a risk bearer....
  • #529
  • Feb 12, 2015 1:02pm Feb 12, 2015 1:02pm
Buddy1's vendetta against Pepperstone got me thinking so I looked in to the IC markets staff list.

The founder and managing director of IC markets is Andrew Budzinski as in buddy1. Buddy isn't exactly a common name, especially in Australia and this poster seems to have a sole purpose in bringing down Pepperstone's reputation.

Who else would be such a massive fan of IC markets, defending them at every opportunity while trying to smear their biggest competitor - Pepperstone - who gets all the media coverage here.

Would be pretty poor form and explosive if true... Does anybody know of a way to verify or trace this?
"Don't Panic..."
  • #530
  • Feb 12, 2015 1:05pm Feb 12, 2015 1:05pm
On negative balances, I have the following advice:

  1. If your broker is another country from your country of residence; don't pay the broker even a single cent. For example, if your broker is an Australian broker and you are staying in Asia, you can ignore the broker. Reason is that the broker has no 'jurisdiction' over you. It's very very difficult to even prosecute criminals from another country - what more a civil suit.... Just ignore ALL phone calls and emails from the broker.
  2. If the broker is from the country that you reside, DON'T pay them also..... They will have to drag you to courts and to prove to the courts that the amount you owed is legit. How can a transaction be legit when it was executed 30 minutes AFTER a margin call resulting to massive losses. Brokers know that they will lose in the courts..... They will threaten you with legal action but they will dare not go to fight you in courts because they know they will lose

This negative balance is a SCAM by the liquidity providers...... in collaboration with the brokers. At the end of the day, who are the winners in this? The brokers and liquidity providers.... They have already got 100% of your funds from your accounts..... Now they are demanding another 10 - 20 times over your account balance..... What a total rip off by these brokers that demand payment for negative balances.... Don't be afraid ... Don't pay them. Wait for the legal letters from the brokers - IF THEY EVEN DARE TO SUE YOU.....

  • #531
  • Feb 12, 2015 3:16pm Feb 12, 2015 3:16pm
Quoting Halifax
Buddy1's vendetta against Pepperstone got me thinking so I looked in to the IC markets staff list. The founder and managing director of IC markets is Andrew Budzinski as in buddy1. Buddy isn't exactly a common name, especially in Australia and this poster seems to have a sole purpose in bringing down Pepperstone's reputation. Who else would be such a massive fan of IC markets, defending them at every opportunity while trying to smear their biggest competitor - Pepperstone - who gets all the media coverage here. Would be pretty poor form and explosive...
No vendetta here Buddy boy, just look at the facts. Ever watched this film buddy?http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_BoyIf not I suggest you do so.
  • #532
  • Feb 12, 2015 3:27pm Feb 12, 2015 3:27pm
Quoting max888
On negative balances, I have the following advice: If your broker is another country from your country of residence; don't pay the broker even a single cent. For example, if your broker is an Australian broker and you are staying in Asia, you can ignore the broker. Reason is that the broker has no 'jurisdiction' over you. It's very very difficult to even prosecute criminals from another country - what more a civil suit.... Just ignore ALL phone calls and emails from the broker. If the broker is from the country that you reside, DON'T pay them also........

All brokers would be able to chase you no matter where you live, this is because you have a legally bining contract with them. The problem arises when they say they have negative balance protection but still chase you, this is probaby why FXCM wrote off 90% of its negative balances.
  • #533
  • Edited 10:40pm Feb 12, 2015 10:06pm | Edited 10:40pm
Quoting max888
On negative balances, I have the following advice: If your broker is another country from your country of residence; don't pay the broker even a single cent. For example, if your broker is an Australian broker and you are staying in Asia, you can ignore the broker. Reason is that the broker has no 'jurisdiction' over you. It's very very difficult to even prosecute criminals from another country - what more a civil suit.... Just ignore ALL phone calls and emails from the broker. If the broker is from the country that you reside, DON'T pay them also........
​Oh max888, you do not have a clue how the market works, do you? You think that if you buy EURCHF it is like you buy a pair of jeans in your local department store. No matter what, the store has to take the jeans back at your price. I am sorry to disappoint you but no one is obliged to close your position at convenient price and time for you. If you want to sell something the only way you can do it is that someone wants to buy it. Margin call is not something unique, it is just a level of margin at which the system automatically sends orders to close your positions, these orders are executed at market and have no any privilege comparing to other orders. Until SNB stepped in there was no buyers for EURCHF and that is where the orders were executed.

For KPMG in Alpari case or brokers in others it will be easy to prove in court. Any called expert will show that slippages happen all the time and the reason for slippage is lack of liquidity. In case of CHF it was on huge proportion, but it is huge only in forex terms, in stocks it happens all the time, 5-10% gaps are everyday events. You have no any legal arguments against brokers only emotions.

As for recovery of funds, it will be decided on case by case basis. A lot depends on personal circumstances. Each broker is different , but the published numbers of Alpari is a goof estimation for other brokers. We do not know the exact number of traders with negative balance, but if we use IG numbers as a basket case we know that $30m were lost by about 300 clients. If we assume similar distribution as for Alpari and subtract 9 clients with $million+ losses we should get an average of $50k per negative account. Of course it included people who owe $100 and those who owe $100k. If you owe $100 or so you probably may forget about it, if you owe more they will decide depending on your ability to pay and enforceability of the claim. Obviously all EU residents are easily reachable for enforcers especially if they have assets. From other countries where Alpari have clients only 2 do not recognise UK court decision it is China and UAE. However in both of these countries Alpari have local branches who will be chasing debtors by local laws. In the rest of the countries KPMG will just register the court decision and sell the debt to local collectors. Of course, if KPMG calculates that recover of $30k from South Africa will cost them $50k of expenses, they will not do it and write it off. Other brokers have different geographical distribution of course, but it should be the same statistics. Brokers are very reluctant to take clients from countries where they cannot chase clients to recover losses.
Wookey
  • #534
  • Feb 12, 2015 11:38pm Feb 12, 2015 11:38pm
Here is a nice article about brokers promising negative balance protection but chasing the negative balance...

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/26...ons-in-losses/
  • #535
  • Feb 13, 2015 4:44am Feb 13, 2015 4:44am
Quoting wookey
{quote} ​Oh max888, you do not have a clue how the market works, do you?
Oh Wookey, do you have a clue all the mentionned brokers are market makers ?
They are the counterpart of all customers trades.

You would be correct on an actual MARKET.

I doubt they want to defend such a case in a court if law.
  • #536
  • Feb 13, 2015 5:18am Feb 13, 2015 5:18am
Quoting buddy1
Here is a nice article about brokers promising negative balance protection but chasing the negative balance... https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/26...ons-in-losses/
Read between the lines

Australian regulations under fire

In the wake of the global financial crisis, the United States put a handbrake on the retail foreign exchange industry, limiting it to a maximum leverage ratio of 50:1.

However, in Australia, foreign currency brokers are offering leverage ratios of up to 500:1.

Associate Professor Mark Crosby from the Melbourne Business School told the ABC last month there was no place for leveraged retail foreign exchange trading platforms in Australia.


"I think they should not be available to retail investors at all, and I certainly don't think they should be promoted to retail investors," he said.

The Australian Securities and Investments Commission says the question of greater controls is one for Government, but it has repeatedly warned consumers that leveraged foreign exchange trading is a risky product.

However, victims of the Swiss franc meltdown argue that ASIC should have policed the industry more thoroughly.

"I've felt ASIC, acting as the Australian regulator for these financial institutions, should really take partial responsibility for the current mess," an FXCM client told the ABC.

"We need ASIC to provide a safe, comfortable environment for any leveraged financial product for people to trade. Because this time it happened in the currency space, but who knows what is the next time bomb?"


look like there about to lower the leverage like the u.s.
  • #537
  • Feb 13, 2015 5:26am Feb 13, 2015 5:26am
Quoting PoundTrader
{quote} Read between the lines Australian regulations under fire In the wake of the global financial crisis, the United States put a handbrake on the retail foreign exchange industry, limiting it to a maximum leverage ratio of 50:1. However, in Australia, foreign currency brokers are offering leverage ratios of up to 500:1. Associate Professor Mark Crosby from the Melbourne Business School told the ABC last month there was no place for leveraged retail foreign exchange trading platforms in Australia. "I think they should not be available to...
Too many bad traders trying to blame ASIC and their broker for their own decisions I reckon. If someome trades a leverged product they should be aware of the possible consequences.
  • #538
  • Feb 13, 2015 5:51am Feb 13, 2015 5:51am
Quoting buddy1
{quote} Too many bad traders trying to blame ASIC and their broker for their own decisions I reckon. If someome trades a leverged product they should be aware of the possible consequences.

I am still convinced that in the case of EURCHF brokers must have lowered leverage on this pair, first of all protect themselves.
CME was also totally inefficient in calculating margin required for RF futures contract, their calculation method relies on volatility which in the case of EURCHF was almost zero. to book one RF you needed around 1,600 CHF -> leverage 90.
So if brokers (with all sort of risk department) got it all wrong, and CME got it all wrong, is it right to assign responsibility on trader/speculators?
  • #539
  • Feb 13, 2015 6:02am Feb 13, 2015 6:02am
Quoting Caa
{quote} I am still convinced that in the case of EURCHF brokers must have lowered leverage on this pair, first of all protect themselves. CME was also totally inefficient in calculating margin required for RF futures contract, their calculation method relies on volatility which in the case of EURCHF was almost zero. to book one RF you needed around 1,600 CHF -> leverage 90. So if brokers (with all sort of risk department) got it all wrong, and CME got it all wrong, is it right to assign responsibility on trader/speculators?
Yep. Its up to us to trade responsibility, we cant go blaming our brokers for poor trading decisions or expect them to protect us. I think traders need to stand up and become accountable for their actions. The problem is that too many traders are now claiming no responsibility for their poor judgment, this is totally irresponsible.
  • #540
  • Feb 13, 2015 10:08am Feb 13, 2015 10:08am
Quoting wookey
{quote} ​Oh max888, you do not have a clue how the market works, do you? You think that if you buy EURCHF it is like you buy a pair of jeans in your local department store. No matter what, the store has to take the jeans back at your price. I am sorry to disappoint you but no one is obliged to close your position at convenient price and time for you. If you want to sell something the only way you can do it is that someone wants to buy it. Margin call is not something unique, it is just a level of margin at which the system automatically sends...
I highly doubt Alpari UK or KPMG will chase any retail trader with negative balance. Take a look at this earlier post from a person who got legal advice from several lawyers in Germany:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...33#post8021933
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