Brokers chasing you for negative account balance | Page 21 | Forex Factory

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Brokers that liquidate accounts at zero before negative balance occurs 22 replies

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Brokers chasing you for negative account balance

  • #401
  • Jan 24, 2015 1:36pm Jan 24, 2015 1:36pm
Any news on post-snb price action? Times and sales? Charts?
  • #402
  • Edited 6:54pm Jan 24, 2015 6:11pm | Edited 6:54pm
Quoting Tom_D_Trader
{quote} Since it is weekend am gonna spam a bit more . Those are 219 useless people. Given the fact FX retailers are generally useless, you could as well say members on FF are generally useless. But even between generally useless people you rarely found diamonds, like Magix, but much more often you find totally useless asswipes like you. And there goes those 219 people.
Magix is a great contributor here indeed, but you? You are a disgrace. Your posts are full of personal, offending insults directed, among others, at various nationalities, disabled people and everyone who has different POV, than yours. You think that offending people makes you look tough, huh? Nope. It just gives an impression of a little pussy-sissy wanker in the real life, who can only feel big and important here in the internet. Which is probably true.

Speaking of what you have to say, it is equally pathetic. Dukascopy robbed you back in 2013, Greece's economy has a bright future because the ancient Greek civilisation was great two and a half millennia ago, and so on. I apologise for using the word 'idiocy' in one of my previous post. It was a serious underestimation.

Regarding commercial spamming of yours: you have been spamming this thread and 'FXCM Discussion' as well, trying to present buying FXCM shares as as a great investment opportunity. This itself is nothing bad, if you are a commercial member - and you are not.
  • #403
  • Jan 24, 2015 6:16pm Jan 24, 2015 6:16pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} Like a lot of lurkers, I do enjoy a good throw down, but I believe the pair of you should just retreat to your respective corners and find another day or topic that you can excel in. Your points are valid and even with you being relatively new to market, you still outshine that dipstick alt11. The dude is a drip and is looking for a fight...you seem a lot better than that. Don't feel insulted by his words. It only takes a brief read of his posts to realize that he has only recently stepped foot into this traders arena and may only be here...
I'm looking for a fight? Seruiously? You joined this discussion just to insult Forexia. I posted asking how MMs could go after negative balance when there probably is no real loss, so who's the troll?
I understand that given the amount of posts you have on here you're probably out of a job and need to rant, but name calling isn't contributing.
  • #404
  • Jan 24, 2015 7:09pm Jan 24, 2015 7:09pm
Quoting alt11
I posted asking how MMs could go after negative balance when there probably is no real loss, so who's the troll?
You are.

Was I not clear enough, previously?

When a proper response was given, you challenged the poster, past information and link.

You are the epitome of newb, have the diction of internet troll and posts that reek of pee.

If that isn't clear enough, I can elaborate with link definitions on anything you have failed to understand.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #405
  • Jan 24, 2015 7:20pm Jan 24, 2015 7:20pm
Sorry what proper response?
I'm talking about B book, and a guy links to a video about hedging? No connection

Anyway no big deal, carry on flaming. There are plenty of guys like you who spend their lives on Fx forums because they have nothing to do.
  • #406
  • Jan 24, 2015 7:28pm Jan 24, 2015 7:28pm
Quoting alt11
Sorry what proper response? I'm talking about B book, and a guy links to a video about hedging? No connection Anyway no big deal, carry on flaming. There are plenty of guys like you who spend their lives on Fx forums because they have nothing to do.
k
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #407
  • Jan 24, 2015 9:33pm Jan 24, 2015 9:33pm
Quoting LarryDarrell
{quote} Never said it would be fun or easy. I actually did this as part of a former job, although not in the leg-breaker-class. There are standardized processes (at least in my country, and would think in all countries of the EU or North America), and once you get a title you've got the bailif to do the tough part of the work. I'm not posting this to make fun of people. But I'm convinced it's better for our colleagues with negative balances to not discount the possibility that somebody will pursue these, and it won't be over within a year or two....
Wow learn something new everyday. I never knew how those collection process works. Didn't know that when you buy the title you actually have someone else to do the "persuasion part" for you. I can see if you have the skills and the experience in this field, yeah it might be worthwhile for you to get into that business.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #408
  • Jan 25, 2015 12:02am Jan 25, 2015 12:02am
uh oh, bun fight. 😝
"Risk comes from not knowing what you're doing." - Warren Buffett
  • #409
  • Jan 25, 2015 9:47am Jan 25, 2015 9:47am
Hello fellow traders,

After the EURCHF incident I have followed the "Alpari" thread and this one like a hawk, reading every single post, since this is relevant for both discussions I will post this message in both threads.

I am seeking for other clients, preferably from Germany, for sharing documents / material in order to prepare for the upcoming lawsuit from Alpari.

The situation so far: Right now we are 3 people. I personally am significantly involved in the EURCHF crash with Alpari, with an account _deeply_ in the red. Unlinke friends that were actually able to close the trades or had their SLs honored, I was not even able to login at the time this happened. Other friends had a platform freeze and were not able to do anything as well.
I have spoken to two lawyers from friends and family and one lawyer specialized in banking / finance law, that I was referred to by my legal insurance company.

All three independently told me (No guarantees obviously, I am not a lawyer myself and this is not my native language, so I might not accurately reflect this):

- If they want to sue me (as a retail client) they would have to do so in my country of residence, not in the UK as stated in their terms and conditions. There is a EU guideline (44/2001) that is very clear about this, also local laws say the same, so in my case German law, not UK law would apply. German law is extremely consumer friendly in these situations.

- They cannot simply sell their claim to some collections agency / vultures without getting a title against me in court first and proving that their claim is valid. It is a very costly procedure for an insolvent company to engage in thousands of questionable lawsuits with people from all over the world, making it hard to tell if they actually want to go that way. My personal guess is that they will decide on a case by case basis, depending on the amount, jurisdiction, etc.

- Their chances of winning in court in my country would be very questionable (the third lawyer told me "I would be very relaxed if I were you"), because many of their business terms are surprising, discriminative and immoral making them void here. Basically (English is not my native language, so I'm not sure if I am saying this correctly) I was told that they cannot "hide" main (negative) aspects of the contract in the business terms (Telling you that you're liable when the platform crashes, not clearly stating that the "stop function" doesn't work in all situations, there is a massive conflict of interest because they acted as counter party, you can lose infinite (!) funds when you wire insiginificant amounts, etc etc - just stating that you can "lose more than your investment" is far from enough over here.)

There are many more arguments and documents we started to collect in preparation for the possible lawsuit. I would like to start a group with people (especially from Germany) that are in a similar situation and would like to pool their resources. Please PM me if you're interested.

Good luck to all affected by this mess.
  • #410
  • Edited 10:50am Jan 25, 2015 10:23am | Edited 10:50am
Quoting fxanomaly
Hi,
There is one thing to take out from this CHF crisis. In my view - and correct me if i'm wrong- brokers who return your negative balance to 0 are most likely a b-book.
Meaning your trades/positions never really was exposed to the market. You traded inside the Market Making brokers virtual environment. Therefore your minus was never real. From MM perspective they cant reclaim your minus due to the fact that in case of legal actions they would need to expose their real activities to the world.
And to bring you back to 0 balance is just 1 click - no real money costs. So you could happily play your game again, and again making them commissions. And they gain extra good reviews on the way how great they are giving money back.
LMAX beeing REAL MARKET ,don't give a s..t about you, as why would REAL MARKET give any s..t about traders - its a venue to exchange trades not a broker as such.

Yeah I thought that was the case about LMAX but if you search the internet, you'll find that their CEO say less than 20-40% of their orders are between clients (that figure inc whitelabels), their orders are just pushed onto their LP same as any other STP broker. Basically they're not an exchange at all. They're just like every other opaque fx broker. Just a heads up.
  • #411
  • Jan 25, 2015 11:51am Jan 25, 2015 11:51am
Quoting Iro
{quote} Yeah I thought that was the case about LMAX but if you search the internet, you'll find that their CEO say less than 20-40% of their orders are between clients (that figure inc whitelabels), their orders are just pushed onto their LP same as any other STP broker. Basically they're not an exchange at all. They're just like every other opaque fx broker. Just a heads up.
This makes you wonder if we are really trading against the liquidity f***ers, yes they are liquidity f***ers since they didn't really provide any liquidity during the SNB event then why do we bother to trade through those ECN/STP brokers for them to charge us commissions in the process? I guess the only reason is we need the leverage offered by those brokers. If we were to open an account with those liquidity stopper bucket shops like Deutsche, you would need to have more money because you can't trade on margin anymore.

So in that case, having a larger minimum account balance and/or lower leverage is really irrelevant. Basically that just means when s*** like SNB happens, you have enough money for those f***ers to take and they won't have to go through the efforts to collect negative balances. but we will still be f***ed by their last-look requoting, stopping quotes and all those s*** that they do.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #412
  • Jan 25, 2015 12:48pm Jan 25, 2015 12:48pm
Can anybody explain if the options market is 'safer' than than OTC broker. From my understanding, a broker funnels trades to a liquidity provider (banks) which can quote all the way to 0.99 in eurchf resulting in negative equity. In options, the OCC (Options Clearing Corp) makes sure that there is liquidity in both parties entering a trade beforehand? And even if one party exits the trade/contract, the OCC makes sure that it finds another party to honor the original trade?

Maybe in options there aren't any stop losses to be worried about (just the premium paid) due to maximum loss as in a long call or long put?
  • #413
  • Jan 25, 2015 7:20pm Jan 25, 2015 7:20pm
I don't think they're safer, at least if your broker is scummy bucketshop.

There's a post in the eur/chf thread where a trader had bought eur/chf puts through Saxobank and Saxo somehow spiked the price to take wipe their account before dropping the prices like every other broker. Not sure how that works. But sounds like they can quote any bs number they want just like spot.
  • #414
  • Jan 26, 2015 3:11am Jan 26, 2015 3:11am
r4in123: I would be very careful as a German resident. Also i would _strongly_ advise against taking such absolut stupid advice like the one from forexia. That will get you into very serious trouble. Just digging your head into the ground and not replying / acting in any way will get you burned in a very bad way.

As a German resident they will most likely not sue you but request a so called claim "Mahnbescheid" at your local court. They might not even have to do it there because of changes in the law a few years ago. They might be able to use any court or their German offices one for that matter. At this point they will not really have to proof anything about that claim. HOWEVER if you decide to not reject that claim, it will become effective automatically after 2 weeks. Then a collection agent from the court will execute their claim for them. They will never really have to get in touch with you in any way. You will not have a possibility to reject / counter that claim anymore. All your assets, salary etc will be claimed. If you choose to reject the claim within two weeks, the court will ask them to state why they think their claim is legit. The proof that they _will be able_ to give the court will be enough for the court to open a lawsuit. Now you should consider one thing very carefully: if your losses are as big as you state you might want to fire up a lawsuit costs calculator since the cost of your lawyer, the lawsuit it self, the opponents lawyer will be calculated based on the money claimed. E.g. a 50k claim will add around 10k if lost. So if you decide to reject the claim and risk the lawsuit you might want to make sure to have a decent lawyer.

Those are just my personal theoretical ramblings and they might be total bullshit and do not represent any legal advise Also your opponent might choose a totally different strategy.

However, especially for client of such brokers in the EU - DO NOT FOLLOW THE TOTAL IDIOT ADVISE OF SOME HERE TO JUST IGNORE EVERYTHING! Be proactive ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE GOT ANY ASSETS!!! In this case i would strongly advise you to look for a decent insolvency lawyer - one with experience with shady clients might not be the worst choice! .... - and prepare yourself - no matter if you choose to go the way of a lawsuit or just insolvency.

You will want to make them go up against a piss poor men not a rich one!
  • #415
  • Jan 26, 2015 3:56am Jan 26, 2015 3:56am
Also remember: When you signed up for any broker - you signed a so called "know your client" sheet. It asked you about your salary, your assets, very important: real estate!, experience etc. Pretty much the whole purpose of this know your client crap (except for data mining, selling you shit in finance) is exactly this situation. When people say "uhmmm haven't got any money" they will ask you about the things you wrote down there. Especially if you specified a big salary or the jackpot: real estate then they will be very interested in you. Lying on that sheet might not really be any problem but it doesn't do you any favor for your overall case.
  • #416
  • Jan 26, 2015 6:46am Jan 26, 2015 6:46am
Quoting noyb
r4in123: I would be very careful as a German resident. .....
Thanks for your advice but I know all this already As I said I have talked to three different lawyers. Of course you are doomed if you simply don't dispute their claim or ignore court mail, but I never said that I was going to do this :-)
  • #417
  • Jan 26, 2015 8:01am Jan 26, 2015 8:01am
Quoting noyb
r4in123: I would be very careful as a German resident. Also i would _strongly_ advise against taking such absolut stupid advice like the one from forexia. That will get you into very serious trouble.
What "stupid advise" that I gave here to people are you referring to? You don't even know what I was talking about and you have no idea what I advised people who incurred negative balances from unscrupulous practice from brokers and liquidity "providers". If you are going to troll and flame, at least do some research and get some facts straight. Otherwise, get the f*** out of here! This is a forum for traders!
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #418
  • Jan 26, 2015 8:12am Jan 26, 2015 8:12am
FXCM's clients in France are starting to receive phone calls about their negative balance being reset to zero. Not sure about the reality of this yet since there has been no official declaration made by FXCM. Not sure if clients for other countries will be treated the same way.
  • #419
  • Jan 26, 2015 11:09am Jan 26, 2015 11:09am
Quoting RudiMar
FXCM's clients in France are starting to receive phone calls about their negative balance being reset to zero. Not sure about the reality of this yet since there has been no official declaration made by FXCM. Not sure if clients for other countries will be treated the same way.
If I recall it correctly from some discussions here and in other forums there is a force majeure clause in the FXCM agreement and I could imagine they'll have a problem with that in front of a court anyway (a central bank making an unannounced decision is probably not force majeure (it wasn't a war, it wasn't a flood, no nuclear powerplant did explode and Jordan is quiet clearly not a god). But: I'm not a lawyer, so its all IMHO).
  • #420
  • Jan 27, 2015 7:14am Jan 27, 2015 7:14am
any example for New about the negative balance on france branch ??
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