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  • #121
  • Jan 23, 2015 2:11am Jan 23, 2015 2:11am
I do know exactly what you are talking about. As I stated a few days ago, when Kennedy was assassinated, the market makers bought into one of the greatest sell-offs in history and saved the integrity of the market. They were almost wiped out. That's their job. The money they bring into the system is supposed to be proven discretionary. And no matter how much the people here try to make it seem like the LP's are just there to have fun and steal with impunity, IT IS IMPLIED through industry-wide public relations that "Forex is the most liquid market in the world". (But we now know it's only liquid until something happens).

I'll bet 80% of traders didn't know what happened to CHF could happen because of Forex marketing designed to obfuscate. The proponents of no regulations sound like Republican zombie voters who enjoy GOP perversion of capitalism.... privatized profits for them and socialized losses for us.

One month ago, ONE stock option guru said in his video, "Stay away from Forex...you'll wake up one day and your entire account will be gone".

But who needs Forex...I have since moved over my entire account to Nadex where I can trade 24/7 binary options on currencies, stocks, gold, oil, grains etc...and never be subject to "bait and switch" schemes by bankers leading to a "negative" account balance ten times my initial investment.
  • #122
  • Jan 23, 2015 2:11am Jan 23, 2015 2:11am
Quoting Forexia
{quote} True. The highest those regulators dares to clamp down on are the brokers; they will never dare to touch the big shots like Deutsche Bank, a bank that has $1.869 TRILLION USD in assets. I mean if SEC had to take SEVEN years to investigate Bernie Madoff and they didn't even do s***. And Madoff's company was just a private brokerage/investment firm, nowhere near in size as big banks like Deutsche. Well then something needs to be done about them, if not regulators.
What we need is a voice or an organisation solely for the retail traders that is willing to stand up to brokers, LPs, even regulators if need be.
  • #123
  • Jan 23, 2015 2:35am Jan 23, 2015 2:35am
Quoting Forexia
{quote} One thing I don't understand is WHY are you guys so scared of regulations against the "Big Boys"? You still like to subject yourselves to their price manipulations, requotes and you think that's not going to cut through your winnings? What they did during this SNB even was absolute s***! And you are going to stand there and take it when they f*** us over and over and over?? If you are scared that the regulators would just turn around and clamp down on us and demand higher deposit from us if we complain, well that's an issue that we need...
Forexia, because the big boys cannot be regulated, they are the bosses of the regulators.
So, if people call for regulation, all they can regulate are the little fish (and my new 50:1 max leverage confirm this ).

You cannot regulate the big banks, they are the same that when need to be bailed out, tax payers bail them out.
The whole world rotate (the economy) thanks and only thanks to them, they really are the bosses.

Regulations means us little guys get fucked from new stupid rules.
That's what "more regulations" is all about.
  • #124
  • Edited 2:54am Jan 23, 2015 2:43am | Edited 2:54am
Quoting Forexia
Yes all the WRONG regulations against us little guys, same crap they are doling on us for forex trading, leverage cap and $25K minimum capital requirement. Seriously, WHY would you need $25K deposited there with leverage of 2:1 when the average movement of a stock is like couple of cents a day? Ridiculous! Well I hope they are happy that they wiped out a $billion industry and now they are about to wipe out another. Have fun!
Whining of people like YOU wiped out that industry & now, you're intent on wiping out another!

Quoting Moka
SO you want huge leverage but do not want to pay for the consequences?
He doesn't seem to grasp the basic concept of taking responsibility for one's own actions!

Quoting Forexia
{quote} That's why it took seven years for Bernie Madoff to be exposed......
Madoff was a fraud, he didn't reveal the nature of his dealings with people he was contractually obligated; LPs can only be accused of such if they've failed to meet their contractual agreements with brokers but it's between the brokers, not a place for you or regulators to poke their noses in. Again, YOUR agreement is with your broker, NOT with LPs so don't act like LPs were in any way obligated to fill YOUR terrible trade & to take on YOUR losses!

On a slightly different note, U.S. government is the biggest perpetrator of a ponzi scheme running on the principle of "paying past investors with the money of present investors"; that's what social security is, the only difference being that Madoff's clients voluntarily invested their money wtih him while people are forced to "invest" into Social Security.

Quoting deltaone
{quote} pussycat is going angry, blaming others for itīs trading "skills"
Yeah, just your typical retail forex trader who takes the credit for his wins but blames others for his losses...........
  • #125
  • Jan 23, 2015 2:46am Jan 23, 2015 2:46am
Quoting Forexia
{quote} Opportunities won't last as long if the other guys don't play fair.
We trade when we want to trade & they trade when they want to trade, it can't be any fairer than that as it is. Instead, what you're asking for - forcing them to trade when they don't want to - is UNFAIR!

As I've said before, what you're asking for will never happen because governments sell their power to the highest bidders but even IF (& that's a humongous IF) what you are asking for is done, it would such an unjustifiably terrible proposition that banks will simply not want to do deal with retail trading, they'll just go back to trading amongst themselves as they had been before retail forex came into being; and without banks, there won't be enough liquidity for a retail trading to be as profitable as it is.

Quoting Forexia
What and who is there to stop them? Free market? They ARE the market.
NO, they are NOT the market, nobody is! If they were then they'd never lose money & successful retail traders would never make a lot of money but there's evidence to the contrary. YES, market, competitive pricing & profit is what ensures a fair market but you'd probably not understand being a person who believes that regulations are the answer to every problem incapable of accepting the FACT that people in government aren't interested in anything more than to make money for themselves!

Quoting Forexia
there was a case where this trader was actually on the right side of the market during the SNB event; he was shorting the USDCHF and IC Markets went back and adjusted his trade with a price that was never found anywhere, never posted nor published on any institutional quote system and now his trade is a losing one and his account is in negative balances. Because all those liquidity f***ers stopped quoting, there is no way to know what's supposed to be the fair value of the currency and they can just give whatever price they like for your trade....
I've read it & I believe it was unfair of IC markets to re-price him on a price that's massively out of sync with the market but his gripe should be with IC Markets as he has a contract with them, not with LPs. I don't know their contract covers such instances but in any case, I do believe it was unfair of IC Markets to do that & their punishment will be the loss of business that could ensue because of that. Again, I believe brokers typically do have contracts with their LPs so if some of the LPs have violated contracts with brokers then brokers should bring them to justice as any violation of a contract should be but that still doesn't justify regulations of the kind you're proposing in order to destroy retail forex.

No, they can't "give whatever price they like". As Traider has pointed out, it's a battlefield for someone else's money, everybody is trying to profit for themselves & that ensures competitive pricing, & the fact that not all LPs made money is proof of just that.

Fair value of anything can only be where people are willing buy/sell it, & that can change in a matter of seconds as new information is revealed but that was only too obvious the other day.
  • #126
  • Jan 23, 2015 2:46am Jan 23, 2015 2:46am
Quoting r41225
{quote} Exactly the point! {quote} May be the silver lining but I believe not all successful traders start with 100K, some make their way up from the bottom so even though what you're saying is perhaps right but if entry-level is raised by the regulators then I'll feel sorry for some of the new guys that will have been denied the opportunity to try to become a successful forex trader just because of inanity of people like Forexia. But I guess that's how it works, the world isn't fair! {quote} Short & sweet! The fact is "regulation" IS...
Great post (and summary of posts). Pretty much where I stand r4. Yeah, I'm a small fish. A few hundred bucks turned into a few hundred more and I'd like to continue. Been dealing with the US 50:1 and got no complaints but wouldn't want to see any lower really (until my account is much larger ). Higher is fine, I know how to adjust and "regulate" myself. Biggest issue for me are the ridiculous FIFO & No Hedging "regulations" that hog tie a lot of very nice trading methods.

I've dedicated about every free moment of my life since 2008 learning the markets and how to trade them. Yes, even through, and with all the cries of "manipulation" going on. Heck, even cried manipulation myself (I'm human too ) when things went rye. I imagine right up to the point I could finally see it was simply my fault and could admit I was wrong. Hard at first. Get's easier quickly when you can see the market for what it is. For lack of a better word to describe the phenomena, the "manipulation" to me is simply another aspect of the market's structure that needs to be learned and adjusted to. I've done that .... for the most part. (Nobody is 100% right ... ever)

Be a real shame to see things change and effectively lock me (and others) out now that I'm right in the place I've worked so long and hard to be. If that happens, I guess I'll need to adjust .... again. But I surely hope it doesn't. Kind of my last shot here.
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #127
  • Edited 4:25am Jan 23, 2015 3:26am | Edited 4:25am
Quoting Forexia
{quote} One thing I don't understand is WHY are you guys so scared of regulations against the "Big Boys"? You still like to subject yourselves to their price manipulations, requotes and you think that's not going to cut through your winnings? What they did during this SNB even was absolute s***! And you are going to stand there and take it when they f*** us over and over and over?? If you are scared that the regulators would just turn around and clamp down on us and demand higher deposit from us if we complain, well that's an issue that we need...
As I (& many others here) have said, I don't think it's unfair of LPs to not trade when they don't want to. We wouldn't like to be forced to trade when we don't want to & it's only fair for us to believe that nobody should be forced into that position through regulations. But I don't expect you to sympathize with this unless you actually understand that fairness & force don't go together; & it's force that you're proposing & as I've said, it's going to lead to bad consequences for retail traders.

As I've said, if LPs have violated their agreements with the brokers then the brokers should bring them to justice but that's a different issue than the one being discussed here.

Quoting TraderRaven7
You would be wrong to think that regulating bodies are with us. For them retail traders are nothing but a nuisance. if somehow some regulator authority even considered regulating a LP it's jurisdiction will be limited. Either LPs should be universally regulated which is almost impossible, otherwise this whole conversation is futile. It happened with alpari who is to say if I find a different broker it will not happen again. Odds were always stacked against a retail trader from the start. Things will not get easier as I said we are not the priority....
Trading isn't easy, it's so profitable because it's so risky; some traders on FF have posted huge gains due to moves on CHF pairs. Typically, risks/rewards are aligned so it's important, as a trader, to be prepared for the risks. Apart from managing leverage, risk per position; it's paramount that a serious trader has spread his trading capital with several good brokers, only deposit enough money to cover margins & risk-per-trade of the open positions while keeping the rest in a solid bank, & further diversify risk by putting some money into hard assets, etc. Be prepared for the worst, that's the only prudent way to go about trading.

Quoting albchr
{quote} Great post (and summary of posts). Pretty much where I stand r4. Yeah, I'm a small fish. A few hundred bucks turned into a few hundred more and I'd like to continue. Been dealing with the US 50:1 and got no complaints but wouldn't want to see any lower really (until my account is much larger ). Higher is fine, I know how to adjust and "regulate" myself. Biggest issue for me are the ridiculous FIFO & No Hedging "regulations" that hog tie a lot of very nice trading methods. I've dedicated about every free moment of my life since 2008 learning the markets and how to trade them. Yes, even through, and with all the cries of "manipulation" going on. Heck, even cried manipulation myself (I'm human too ) when things went rye. I imagine right up to the point I could finally see it was simply my fault and could admit I was wrong. Hard at first. Get's easier quickly when you can see the market for what it is. For lack of a better word to describe the phenomena, the "manipulation" to me is simply another aspect of the market's structure that needs to be learned and adjusted to. I've done that .... for the most part. (Nobody is 100% right ... ever) Be a real shame to see things change and effectively lock me (and others) out now that I'm right in the place I've worked so long and hard to be. If that happens, I guess I'll need to adjust .... again. But I surely hope it doesn't. Kind of my last shot here.
Thanks. Leverage reduction & FIFO were brought in because a lot of rookie traders were overleveraging & used hedging as an excuse to not take accept losses so that was regulators' way of "protecting" them but regulations = taking away freedom, so that's not surprising. It took away opportunities from those traders who were using those features responsibly, & I believe self-regulation is the best regulation as it doesn't involve forcing someone else.

And you're absolutely right in that the more we understand the markets, the more we understand ourselves, the easier & the more profitable trading becomes, iit takes several years for people to get to that point but very few get there because most people either lose enough money or get frustrated enough to quit way before that. But I believe all that effort is worth it. One very successful retail trader I know says that people invest years to get education & various degrees & diplomas that allows them to earn a lot of money then why shouldn't we, as traders, be willing to invest a few years to learn the markets considering the magnitude of the potential gains!

Yes, it would very unpleasant for you & many others if regulators do make changes to "protect" small traders from forex due to outcries of unsuccessful traders but as I've said, life isn't always fair.
  • #128
  • Jan 23, 2015 3:46am Jan 23, 2015 3:46am
Quoting r41225
{quote} As I (& many others here) have said, I don't think it's unfair of LPs to not trade when they don't want to. We wouldn't like to be forced to trade when we don't want to & it's only fair for us to believe that nobody should be forced into that position through regulations. But I don't expect you to sympathize with this unless you actually understand that fairness & force don't go together; & it's force that you're proposing & as I've said, it's going to lead to bad consequences for retail traders. As I've said, if LPs have violated their...
I was not even trading chf.
I had trades in eurusd and were. Losdd in a loss.
I am actually talking about trades being closed and brokers going insolvent and my money getting stuck.
  • #129
  • Edited 4:42am Jan 23, 2015 4:31am | Edited 4:42am
Quoting TraderRaven7
{quote} I was not even trading chf. I had trades in eurusd and were. Losdd in a loss. I am actually talking about trades being closed and brokers going insolvent and my money getting stuck.
Well, that's terrible but unfortunately, considering the nature of forex it's always a possibility at all times, that's why I believe we should only deposit as much money with the broker as is needed to cover open positions, so even if the broker does go down & the money becomes inaccessible (temporarily or permanantly) then it's a fraction of the overall trading capital...........
  • #130
  • Jan 23, 2015 6:33am Jan 23, 2015 6:33am
Interesting webinar I stumbled on some time back from ICMarkets with Angus explaining tick, data flow along with 'last look' with bank quotes reserving the right to remove the quote, around news events with forex. Might help open some eyes why not to use MT4 for news trading and banks have full control.

The most intersting I found was around the 23 minute onward.

http://vimeo.com/74929900
My comments are not to be taken as trading advice, not a financial advisor
  • #131
  • Jan 23, 2015 11:02pm Jan 23, 2015 11:02pm
Quoting Forexia
{quote} My concern exactly. That's why it took seven years for Bernie Madoff to be exposed and he only exposed because his two sons finally went to the authorities. If they hadn't, his Ponzi scheme might still be running. Financial trading has become very very technical and complicated. Those regulators, IF they really want to do something about the shady practices of those "big banks", they need technical advisors to help them to at least understand what they do. Otherwise indeed they wouldn't be effective in what they want to achieve. And they...
Uncovering shady( useless) traders is not easy as knowledge of the true nature of the markets is sparse. Crooked trading is a necessary evil in an area that few understand and to try and regulate the poorly understood is a futile exercise. Capitalism is a hard game of survival. The best strategy is to know this game inside out.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #132
  • Jan 30, 2015 1:03am Jan 30, 2015 1:03am
Quoting citidzen
{quote} http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/bloomber...aints/41244160
First regulator looking into trading and price issues related to SNB crisis. Let's see how competent and effective they are in adjudicating and resolving the issue.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #133
  • Jan 30, 2015 1:52am Jan 30, 2015 1:52am
No matter what the outcome the system needs better regulation, and I for one am glad to see these proactive moves by regulators.

You can't just add your own prices to the market!
My comments are not to be taken as trading advice, not a financial advisor
  • #134
  • Jan 30, 2015 2:16am Jan 30, 2015 2:16am
Forexia come on, haven't you heard about the illuminati? Stuff like that will happen again for sure and it's nothing compared to what's coming. That's why it seems funny to me when people compare trading to regular job or other businesses.

It's a game....enjoy it as it is.
  • #135
  • Jan 30, 2015 12:01pm Jan 30, 2015 12:01pm
Quoting Vitez
Forexia come on, haven't you heard about the illuminati? Stuff like that will happen again for sure and it's nothing compared to what's coming. That's why it seems funny to me when people compare trading to regular job or other businesses. It's a game....enjoy it as it is.
I have heard of Illuminati as I have heard of Santa Claus. Trading is what you make as of it. If you make trading as a game, then it would be just a game to you. Some people treat trading like gambling, then trading will be like gambling to them. I treat trading as a serious business.

Just like any business, there needs to be regulations to curtail unfair dealing, and Retail forex trading is no exception.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #136
  • Jan 31, 2015 4:27am Jan 31, 2015 4:27am
Quoting Forexia
{quote} I have heard of Illuminati as I have heard of Santa Claus. Trading is what you make as of it. If you make trading as a game, then it would be just a game to you. Some people treat trading like gambling, then trading will be like gambling to them. I treat trading as a serious business. Just like any business, there needs to be regulations to curtail unfair dealing, and Retail forex trading is no exception.
Don't get me wrong, for sure I wonder if someone was to make serious profits like 10.000% and withdraw would the brokers actaully pay him/her the money or would there be another topic on FF talkin about a scam.

As for treating trading as job or business....well I'm sure the big boys are laughing
  • #137
  • Jan 31, 2015 4:45am Jan 31, 2015 4:45am
Quoting r41225
{quote} Thanks. Leverage reduction & FIFO were brought in because a lot of rookie traders were overleveraging & used hedging as an excuse to not take accept losses so that was regulators' way of "protecting" them but regulations = taking away freedom, so that's not surprising. It took away opportunities from those traders who were using those features responsibly, & I believe self-regulation is the best regulation as it doesn't involve forcing someone else. And you're absolutely right in that the more we understand the markets, the more we understand...
Quite true. Life is not always fair. It's a series of challenges that strengthen us as we learn to deal with and overcome them. Builds character and a wisdom that allows one to see beyond tomorrow.

Those that get through .... Do. Those that don't .... Teach. Those afraid of the challenge? Seek nanny's to hold their hands and "protect" them. They will never see beyond yesterday as they call for things that ruin tomorrow for the rest of us.
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #138
  • Feb 1, 2015 7:13pm Feb 1, 2015 7:13pm
Quoting Vitez
{quote} Don't get me wrong, for sure I wonder if someone was to make serious profits like 10.000% and withdraw would the brokers actaully pay him/her the money or would there be another topic on FF talkin about a scam. As for treating trading as job or business....well I'm sure the big boys are laughing
Well a broker who doesn't allow people to withdraw their profits IS a scam. We will get them exposed on FF, complain about them to a regulatory body to get our money back. The broker will be shut down by the regulatory body and we will move on to the next broker. It's just part of the business. And unfortunately a part of our business is vetting the brokers that we will have a business relationship with is honest. And yes there are plenty of us who DO trade trading as a business. And if those "big boys" play by the rules instead of manipulating prices and engaging in dishonest trading practices, our business would be lot more successful.

In effect, what has appeared to have taken place is a massive ‘requote’ in the market. Mostly known for taking place between retail brokers and their customers, the table has been turned with brokers receiving word from banks that some of their trades with them have been cancelled. A letter to clients from one of the largest primary bank reviewed by Forex Magnates, stated that “significant issues” took place during the price drop and actual executions may not match that which was reported by their electronic systems. The result is that brokers who had filled customers, may still be on the hook for those trades with their counterparties after seeing trades with banks repriced due to initial rates ‘being out of the market’.

http://forexmagnates.com/breaking-ig...tility-in-chf/

In an extreme example (that affected at least two brokers), Barclays had filled EUR/CHF sell orders at 0.065 (no extra zero) while at the same time EBS was quoting its session low of 0.85. Technology providers that Forex Magnates spoke to corroborated with similar examples of their clients. Firms did state that Barclays and other banks ultimately did provide some price improvement, but often to levels below that of EBS’s low of the day.

http://forexmagnates.com/banks-bucke...nc-volatility/

Institutional traders and buyside members have seen an influx in banks using last look practises to overpower their clients. One trader who commented on the basis of anonymity said to Forex Magnates: “Quite simply Banks are having the biggest last look ever, typical of the market today, they enter a risk market and when it goes against them they fail to honour the trades.”

http://forexmagnates.com/banks-face-...mln-bloomberg/
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #139
  • Last Post: Dec 31, 2015 4:34am Dec 31, 2015 4:34am
Forex trading is a high risk investment vehicle, it is very unpredictable and volatile, it is our job to secure our investment using proper risk management approach, nothing is sure in this market and it is not the fault of LP.
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