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Call for Regulations regarding Liquidity Providers

  • #101
  • Jan 21, 2015 7:15pm Jan 21, 2015 7:15pm
Quoting Spili
{quote} Because you were an accident waiting to happen.
Of course with all the liquidity "providers" pushing me in front of the cars, how can "accidents" NOT happen?
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #102
  • Jan 21, 2015 7:20pm Jan 21, 2015 7:20pm
Quoting Forexia
{quote} Of course with all the liquidity "providers" pushing me in front of the cars, how can "accidents" NOT happen?
You were asking for it and you know it.
"Risk comes from not knowing what you're doing." - Warren Buffett
  • #103
  • Jan 21, 2015 7:54pm Jan 21, 2015 7:54pm
Quoting Spili
{quote} You were asking for it and you know it.
I was asking for liquidity f***ers to stop their price quotes and requote me? LOL Uh I don't think so. And for that, they are going to answer to the regulators. They are already looking into this.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #104
  • Jan 21, 2015 7:56pm Jan 21, 2015 7:56pm
Trading is not easy. Its a fallacy think that an envelope or indicator reveals the FX market. In that vein, losses are always down to a lack of knowledge. There is nothing wrong with that market that needs regulating.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #105
  • Jan 21, 2015 8:12pm Jan 21, 2015 8:12pm
Quoting Forexia
{quote} I was asking for liquidity f***ers to stop their price quotes and requote me? LOL Uh I don't think so. And for that, they are going to answer to the regulators. They are already looking into this.
Good luck taking on Deutsche Bank etc. You had no contractual relationship with the LP, so they had no obligations towards you whatsoever.


Inserted Video
"Risk comes from not knowing what you're doing." - Warren Buffett
  • #106
  • Jan 21, 2015 8:15pm Jan 21, 2015 8:15pm
Quoting traider
Trading is not easy. Its a fallacy think that an envelope or indicator reveals the FX market. In that vein, losses are always down to a lack of knowledge. There is nothing wrong with that market that needs regulating.
Yes there is and it's certainly not us who needs regulating.

http://firstadopter.tumblr.com/post/...to-its-clients

http://forexmagnates.com/banks-face-...mln-bloomberg/

Institutional traders and buyside members have seen an influx in banks using last look practises to overpower their clients. One trader who commented on the basis of anonymity said to Forex Magnates: “Quite simply Banks are having the biggest last look ever, typical of the market today, they enter a risk market and when it goes against them they fail to honour the trades.”

http://forexmagnates.com/breaking-ig...tility-in-chf/

In effect, what has appeared to have taken place is a massive ‘requote’ in the market. Mostly known for taking place between retail brokers and their customers, the table has been turned with brokers receiving word from banks that some of their trades with them have been cancelled. A letter to clients from one of the largest primary bank reviewed by Forex Magnates, stated that “significant issues” took place during the price drop and actual executions may not match that which was reported by their electronic systems. The result is that brokers who had filled customers, may still be on the hook for those trades with their counterparties after seeing trades with banks repriced due to initial rates ‘being out of the market’.

http://forexmagnates.com/banks-bucke...nc-volatility/

In an extreme example (that affected at least two brokers), Barclays had filled EUR/CHF sell orders at 0.065 (no extra zero) while at the same time EBS was quoting its session low of 0.85. Technology providers that Forex Magnates spoke to corroborated with similar examples of their clients. Firms did state that Barclays and other banks ultimately did provide some price improvement, but often to levels below that of EBS’s low of the day.

With all those s*** that they did to us, you still don't think somebody needs to look into those liquidity "providers"' practice more closely? Then you are either somebody working for the bank, a naive noob to forex trading or a troll.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #107
  • Jan 21, 2015 8:19pm Jan 21, 2015 8:19pm
As I said, the market is always right. It cannot be manipulated despite what many think. Knowing this knowledge is the crux. If you lose, its because you were wrong.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #108
  • Jan 21, 2015 8:49pm Jan 21, 2015 8:49pm
Quoting traider
As I said, the market is always right. It cannot be manipulated despite what many think. Knowing this knowledge is the crux. If you lose, its because you were wrong.
I was wrong but the magnitude of the wrong was manipulated and magnified unjustifiably. Anyway that's for the regulators to look into now.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #109
  • Jan 21, 2015 9:01pm Jan 21, 2015 9:01pm
Quoting Forexia
{quote} I was wrong but the magnitude of the wrong was manipulated and magnified unjustifiably. Anyway that's for the regulators to look into now.
Unless they know what to look for, they will be barking up the wrong tree. The market has an underlying structure that is fixed in stone. It cannot change as it is fundamentally what is the market. Being a battle field for someone elses money, the structure has a few rweaks which are intrinsically a part of that structure. No matter which platform you are observing, that structure determines its data. I always try and encourage greater knowledge seeking.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #110
  • Jan 21, 2015 9:03pm Jan 21, 2015 9:03pm
Whoops. I meant tweaks.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #111
  • Edited Jan 22, 2015 10:09am Jan 21, 2015 10:53pm | Edited Jan 22, 2015 10:09am
Quoting traider
{quote} Unless they know what to look for, they will be barking up the wrong tree. The market has an underlying structure that is fixed in stone. It cannot change as it is fundamentally what is the market. Being a battle field for someone elses money, the structure has a few rweaks which are intrinsically a part of that structure. No matter which platform you are observing, that structure determines its data. I always try and encourage greater knowledge seeking.
My concern exactly. That's why it took seven years for Bernie Madoff to be exposed and he only exposed because his two sons finally went to the authorities. If they hadn't, his Ponzi scheme might still be running. Financial trading has become very very technical and complicated. Those regulators, IF they really want to do something about the shady practices of those "big banks", they need technical advisors to help them to at least understand what they do. Otherwise indeed they wouldn't be effective in what they want to achieve. And they will be doing more harm than good.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #112
  • Jan 21, 2015 11:31pm Jan 21, 2015 11:31pm
Quoting traider
{quote} Unless they know what to look for, they will be barking up the wrong tree. The market has an underlying structure that is fixed in stone. It cannot change as it is fundamentally what is the market. Being a battle field for someone elses money, the structure has a few rweaks which are intrinsically a part of that structure. No matter which platform you are observing, that structure determines its data. I always try and encourage greater knowledge seeking.
http://www.forexfactory.com/news.php?do=news&id=522965

Barking on the wrong tree indeed! I have a bad feeling we are next.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #113
  • Jan 22, 2015 3:27am Jan 22, 2015 3:27am
As losing retailers keep calling for regulation you are going to have a change of opinion by succesful traders, they will wake up to the idea that actually they don't want those overleveraged losing traders as it ruins the opportunities for them.

It won't be long and the succesful traders will actually jump on the bandwagon and see that regulation could well be in their favour as it drives out the losing traders. What if we go to 10:1 and say 100k minimum deposit, that won't reduce liquidity that much, the losing traders all have small accounts, winners have larger accounts and can vote with much more impact.

Getting more regulation and getting rid of the small trader could well be a good thing, the markets will calm down and will become more predictable as the "betters" and "chancers" aren't there anymore.

Forexia, you may well be onto something here, you are just not approaching it from the right angle.
A contrarian; I always disagree.
  • #114
  • Jan 22, 2015 3:48am Jan 22, 2015 3:48am
Great posting Forexia.

Leverage keeps getting raised in conversations, leverage has nothing to do with the actual event, even if you were 1:1, the gap was a killer if you were positioned against the move.

The gap contained no data, hence no filling opportunities. Makes me wonder what would have happened if there were a ultra large dark pool (other than central banks) to control the order filling over a several seconds longer than it actually took for the decent to occur???
My comments are not to be taken as trading advice, not a financial advisor
  • #115
  • Jan 22, 2015 6:36am Jan 22, 2015 6:36am
I am afraid we don't have enough information to judge. Some questions should be answered first.
Are there contracts between brokers and LPs?
If so, what are the obligations of both parties?
What trading data are accessible to brokers?
And more strictly technical issues...
  • #116
  • Jan 22, 2015 11:50pm Jan 22, 2015 11:50pm
Quoting goldfinch
As losing retailers keep calling for regulation you are going to have a change of opinion by succesful traders, they will wake up to the idea that actually they don't want those overleveraged losing traders as it ruins the opportunities for them. It won't be long and the succesful traders will actually jump on the bandwagon and see that regulation could well be in their favour as it drives out the losing traders. What if we go to 10:1 and say 100k minimum deposit, that won't reduce liquidity that much, the losing traders all have small accounts,...
Opportunities won't last as long if the other guys don't play fair. Your trading skill can only do so much to help you win eventually they are going to get you. If they don't want to play by the rules, they can even make your winning trades losing ones. All they have to do is widen the spread to whatever price they want. What and who is there to stop them? Free market? They ARE the market. And this is already happening. If you visit some of the IC Market threads in the "Broker Section" on FF, there was a case where this trader was actually on the right side of the market during the SNB event; he was shorting the USDCHF and IC Markets went back and adjusted his trade with a price that was never found anywhere, never posted nor published on any institutional quote system and now his trade is a losing one and his account is in negative balances. Because all those liquidity f***ers stopped quoting, there is no way to know what's supposed to be the fair value of the currency and they can just give whatever price they like for your trade. What are you going to do then?

You can get rid of the small traders with your minimum deposit requirement and low leverage but you think that solves the problem? You think just because you have $100K in the account now and you are only playing with 10X leverage that all of sudden they are going to include you in their "club" and play fair? Take a look at this:

Institutional traders and buyside members have seen an influx in banks using last look practises to overpower their clients. One trader who commented on the basis of anonymity said to Forex Magnates: “Quite simply Banks are having the biggest last look ever, typical of the market today, they enter a risk market and when it goes against them they fail to honour the trades.”

http://forexmagnates.com/banks-face-...mln-bloomberg/

The do the same s*** to everybody regardless whether your account size is 1K or 10K or 100K. They do this because they know they can get away with it. Nobody dares to stand up to them. I am saying that's not right. Somebody needs to take a look at it and stop them. What other angles are there for us to approach this?
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #117
  • Jan 23, 2015 1:23am Jan 23, 2015 1:23am
Quoting Spili
{quote} Good luck taking on Deutsche Bank etc. You had no contractual relationship with the LP, so they had no obligations towards you whatsoever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nVk25ZvTkU
Exactly the point!

Quoting goldfinch
As losing retailers keep calling for regulation you are going to have a change of opinion by succesful traders, they will wake up to the idea that actually they don't want those overleveraged losing traders as it ruins the opportunities for them. It won't be long and the succesful traders will actually jump on the bandwagon and see that regulation could well be in their favour as it drives out the losing traders. What if we go to 10:1 and say 100k minimum deposit, that won't reduce liquidity that much, the losing traders all have small accounts,...
May be the silver lining but I believe not all successful traders start with 100K, some make their way up from the bottom so even though what you're saying is perhaps right but if entry-level is raised by the regulators then I'll feel sorry for some of the new guys that will have been denied the opportunity to try to become a successful forex trader just because of inanity of people like Forexia. But I guess that's how it works, the world isn't fair!

Quoting traider
As I said, the market is always right. It cannot be manipulated despite what many think. Knowing this knowledge is the crux. If you lose, its because you were wrong.
Short & sweet! The fact is "regulation" IS manipulation. Market is only free of manipulations when it is unregulated & people are free to contract with one another of their own volition.
  • #118
  • Jan 23, 2015 1:36am Jan 23, 2015 1:36am
Quoting r41225
{quote} Exactly the point! {quote} May be the silver lining but I believe not all successful traders start with 100K, some make their way up from the bottom so even though what you're saying is perhaps right but if entry-level is raised by the regulators then I'll feel sorry for some of the new guys that will have been denied the opportunity to try to become a successful forex trader just because of inanity of people like Forexia. But I guess that's how it works, the world isn't fair! {quote} Short & sweet! The fact is "regulation" IS manipulation....
One thing I don't understand is WHY are you guys so scared of regulations against the "Big Boys"? You still like to subject yourselves to their price manipulations, requotes and you think that's not going to cut through your winnings? What they did during this SNB even was absolute s***! And you are going to stand there and take it when they f*** us over and over and over?? If you are scared that the regulators would just turn around and clamp down on us and demand higher deposit from us if we complain, well that's an issue that we need to take up with the regulators. But those "big banks" still need to be regulated and watched. Just because life isn't fair doesn't mean you cannot do something about it to make it fairer.

If you work for one of those liquidity f***ers or a troll, I don't expect you to understand sympathize with it. But if you are a genuine retail trader, you should know what I am talking about.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #119
  • Jan 23, 2015 1:48am Jan 23, 2015 1:48am
You would be wrong to think that regulating bodies are with us. For them retail traders are nothing but a nuisance. if somehow some regulator authority even considered regulating a LP it's jurisdiction will be limited.
Either LPs should be universally regulated which is almost impossible, otherwise this whole conversation is futile.
It happened with alpari who is to say if I find a different broker it will not happen again. Odds were always stacked against a retail trader from the start. Things will not get easier as I said we are not the priority.
  • #120
  • Jan 23, 2015 2:03am Jan 23, 2015 2:03am
Quoting TraderRaven7
You would be wrong to think that regulating bodies are with us. For them retail traders are nothing but a nuisance. if somehow some regulator authority even considered regulating a LP it's jurisdiction will be limited. Either LPs should be universally regulated which is almost impossible, otherwise this whole conversation is futile. It happened with alpari who is to say if I find a different broker it will not happen again. Odds were always stacked against a retail trader from the start. Things will not get easier as I said we are not the priority....
True. The highest those regulators dares to clamp down on are the brokers; they will never dare to touch the big shots like Deutsche Bank, a bank that has $1.869 TRILLION USD in assets. I mean if SEC had to take SEVEN years to investigate Bernie Madoff and they didn't even do s***. And Madoff's company was just a private brokerage/investment firm, nowhere near in size as big banks like Deutsche.

Well then something needs to be done about them, if not regulators.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
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