Brokers chasing you for negative account balance | Page 14 | Forex Factory

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Brokers chasing you for negative account balance

  • #261
  • Jan 21, 2015 11:36am Jan 21, 2015 11:36am
Please demand to understand how it can be unaffected if negative balances are not recovered !

1.Did they have any insurance (if so what kind off)
2.is it because they actually were the counter party for your trades and ended up gobbling up the entire amount - which means they are definitely affected but positively with profits of all the remaining account holdings of
3. or are their creditor too writing off the debt if so why - if not ..... then the broker needs to compensate they run for profit making and any CHARITY .... so how will they do that ????

These questions are applicable for any brokerage firm which is writing off .. I am sure this move is good medicine and has saved heartaches of retailers... but should retailers be wary of something in future ..... the answers to these questions will help !!!!!

Quoting Caa
sweet iron fx Dear client, Following the recent shock to the market, led by the decision of the SNB to remove its EUR/CHF floor, we would like to reassure our clients that IronFX is unaffected and is continuing its business as usual. We are pleased to inform you that we fully covered all negative balances arisen from the recent SNB event and will continue offering negative balance protection. Client fund protection is a core pillar of our operations, and we are working round the clock to maintain the highest possible levels of fund security and...
  • #262
  • Jan 21, 2015 11:41am Jan 21, 2015 11:41am
Dont understand how resenting negative balance amounts to Honesty , openness and transparency - so shouldn't they cancel the trade itself and give back the account holders the account balance ????


Quoting Avien32
{quote} Yes,also Hot Forex covers negative accounts...That's nice... Dear Client, Following the Swiss National Bank’s decision yesterday to remove the Swiss Franc cap and the subsequent spike in volatility, the market experienced a period of extreme lack of liquidity for trading in CHF pairs. This led to significant losses for many market participants. We would like to reassure you that HotForex is operating as normal, and was not affected in any material way. Our strict Risk Management procedures minimized the impact of this event. Furthermore,...
  • #263
  • Jan 21, 2015 11:47am Jan 21, 2015 11:47am
Quoting connect_ananth
- so shouldn't they cancel the trade itself and give back the account holders the account balance ???? {quote}
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #264
  • Jan 21, 2015 12:22pm Jan 21, 2015 12:22pm
Quoting osceiv2
{quote} Why do you think Dukascopy has decided to do so? - they didn't suffer overall loss? - they know it would be difficult to sue the clients? - ?
They'd reduced leverage on EURCHF to 10:1 so may be didn't lose a lot of money & as others have said, it may be a move to attract new customers, chasing traders for negative balances is obviously not going to be a popular move with most traders.

Quoting juriFX
{quote} well this is obviously a marketing move. more clients, more profit in the long run. also note that dukascopy is ECN but in the terms and condition they state that they can be counterparty of your trade, also from the FAQ: {quote}
I believe even ECN/STP have to be the counterparty to traders because banks extend credit lines to brokers (which is what allows brokers to provide their traders with leverage) & obviously, it's easier & simpler to contract with the broker for the credit lines extended than each individual trader the broker has.......but a true ECN/STP will instantaneously hedge their clients trades with their LPs to avoid counterparty risk & conflict of interest.

Quoting connect_ananth
Please demand to understand how it can be unaffected if negative balances are not recovered ! 1.Did they have any insurance (if so what kind off) 2.is it because they actually were the counter party for your trades and ended up gobbling up the entire amount - which means they are definitely affected but positively with profits of all the remaining account holdings of 3. or are their creditor too writing off the debt if so why - if not ..... then the broker needs to compensate they run for profit making and any CHARITY .... so how will they do that...
Very valid questions! Yes, you're absolutely right that we should be asking these questions of the brokers who write off negative balances. It would be undestandable if they'd insurance for such an event but I don't know if any of the brokers have said that. If it's not the insurance then they could be a bucketshop; on the other hand, if they are taking those negative balances on the chin as losses then such a policy could endanger the financial standing of the broker in the long-run, leaving them susceptible to insolvency in the future.
  • #265
  • Jan 21, 2015 12:32pm Jan 21, 2015 12:32pm
Quoting connect_ananth
Dont understand how resenting negative balance amounts to Honesty , openness and transparency - so shouldn't they cancel the trade itself and give back the account holders the account balance ???? {quote}
omg... sometimes i forget how many amateurs assemble here - but this one reminds me of it.
fortis fortuna adiuvat
  • #266
  • Jan 21, 2015 12:38pm Jan 21, 2015 12:38pm
Quoting deltaone
{quote} omg... sometimes i forget how many amateurs assemble here - but this one reminds me of it.
Yeah, indeed. They've just had their credit card debt wiped and are unhappy about it??!!!
"Risk comes from not knowing what you're doing." - Warren Buffett
  • #267
  • Jan 21, 2015 12:50pm Jan 21, 2015 12:50pm
D1 ,


i did not know certifications are dished out by Participants in FF ... :-p ..

any way you have taken my statement literally and missed the point raised ( which i have raised in detail in my recent posts )...... will be happy to hear from a "Pro" like you

Quoting deltaone
{quote} omg... sometimes i forget how many amateurs assemble here - but this one reminds me of it.
  • #268
  • Jan 21, 2015 12:56pm Jan 21, 2015 12:56pm
Hi. Hope to get some information about this loss I made. hope you can help explain it to me. I use IC markets in australia and I am living sweden. I searched a long time for a trustworthy DMAbroker and found them to be reliable. Maybe they still are. I am not sure. Anyway, I was short on USDCHF "that day", so I should be one of the lucky ones, right? Wrong. They closed me out at the price of 1.48!! With a negative balande in My account. The thing is that I just can't find any reliable source that confirms that price ever happening that day, can you? So what I thought was a good profit turned out to be a loss instead. They write as follows;

Thank you for submitting your trade query regarding your CHF positions. As you are aware, the forex markets experienced extreme volatility last week following the Swiss National Bank’s announcement that it would be removing the cap on the Swiss Franc’s value against the Euro.
As IC Markets operates under a Direct Market Access model, all client trades regardless of size are filled directly by our liquidity providers and subsequently any CHF positions executed on erroneous prices during the announcement must be adjusted individually both by our liquidity providers and IC Markets on the underlying position/s.
There were certain periods where erroneous prices were being quoted by some of our liquidity providers and those prices will be adjusted according to the amended rates provided by our liquidity providers. IC Markets has made adjustments to your CHF trades on your account 401402 according to rates provided by our liquidity providers, and the account balance is -802.66 EUR as of the 21st January 2015. This balance is currently owing to IC Markets and must be paid back in full.
Kind Regards,
Sung Choi | Support Team Leader | IC Markets
  • #269
  • Jan 21, 2015 1:07pm Jan 21, 2015 1:07pm
Spilli:

you have explained well in the following post of yours on the modus operandi of brokers....

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...70#post8012670


yes every trader owns the responsibility of the transaction/agreement with the broker,But these brokers who are "resetting the balance" and even those who "do not reset " are really not at a loss they actually have gained all the money it was available to them in the account and have made fat gains already .

Chasing people with lawsuit and litigation will only impact the industry and future profits....

and as with any event ,, there could be some genuine hits also but i think except for retailers all other participants will come out with flying colors! So just lesson for retailers to deal with market ...

but doing a reset - i dont see any transparency , honesty and openness " as being proclaimed by the brokers .... thats the sarcasm i had in my earlier post .. in case you did not get it :-)



Quoting Spili
{quote} Yeah, indeed. They've just had their credit card debt wiped and are unhappy about it??!!!
  • #270
  • Jan 21, 2015 1:11pm Jan 21, 2015 1:11pm
As an ambassador to Forex Factory from FOREX.com, I'd like to provide an update to last week's events. The continued trust and loyalty of our customers drives every decision that we make. In light of last Thursday's extraordinary events, we are forgiving all negative balances incurred by our retail clients that day.
Please read our full statement here: http://on.forex.com/1ApwHG8
  • #271
  • Jan 21, 2015 1:25pm Jan 21, 2015 1:25pm
Dear Mkom_prod .

would You have paid the due to broker had you been in debit and you owed the money .. Anyway ,, this is an exceptional happening ...

but let us go by strict business approach -

on that day according to my plat form the HIGH of USDCHF was 1.02194 ..

1. However the price of your provider may be different ( but a difference of 1.48 to 1.02X) seems high
one thing which may have happened is the increase of spread , even though the price fell the spread might have increased there by stopping you out of SL or Margin... or could be a counter party failure

You should still pursue to determine to get the profits !
so in your case things to be checked 1. Time of execution and price at that time
2. The reason for a different price or revision by the Broker

Post your analysis of this details if deemed fit need to understand the redressal mechanism available in the terms and conditions of your agreement with the broker...




Quoting mkom_prod
Hi. Hope to get some information about this loss I made. hope you can help explain it to me. I use IC markets in australia and I am living sweden. I searched a long time for a trustworthy DMAbroker and found them to be reliable. Maybe they still are. I am not sure. Anyway, I was short on USDCHF "that day", so I should be one of the lucky ones, right? Wrong. They closed me out at the price of 1.48!! With a negative balande in My account. The thing is that I just can't find any reliable source that confirms that price ever happening that day, can...
  • #272
  • Jan 21, 2015 1:31pm Jan 21, 2015 1:31pm
Quoting Jack Morris
As an ambassador to Forex Factory from FOREX.com, I'd like to provide an update to last week's events. The continued trust and loyalty of our customers drives every decision that we make. In light of last Thursday's extraordinary events, we are forgiving all negative balances incurred by our retail clients that day. Please read our full statement here: http://on.forex.com/1ApwHG8
There is nothing specific to this episode in this link ,please remove as else it will be deemed as promotion ...

Can you explain ?

1.Do you send your client trades to Market or you manage them internally with your Hedging strategies ?

2.How are you able to manage this "negative balance" without impacting your balance sheet..

3. what is your Policy of Negative balance generally - is this just a one time exceptional measure or is this your standard policy ?
  • #273
  • Jan 21, 2015 1:35pm Jan 21, 2015 1:35pm
Quoting connect_ananth
D1 , i did not know certifications are dished out by Participants in FF ... :-p .. any way you have taken my statement literally and missed the point raised ( which i have raised in detail in my recent posts )...... will be happy to hear from a "Pro" like you {quote}
well, that is a point. if your question should have been a joke, i´m sorry i took it literally.
fortis fortuna adiuvat
  • #274
  • Jan 21, 2015 1:42pm Jan 21, 2015 1:42pm
No issues D1 :-) .. communication gap is much older than and more prevalent than the price gap :-p

Quoting deltaone
{quote} well, that is a point. if your question should have been a joke, i´m sorry i took it literally.
  • #275
  • Jan 21, 2015 2:23pm Jan 21, 2015 2:23pm
Quoting mkom_prod
Hi. Hope to get some information about this loss I made. hope you can help explain it to me. I use IC markets in australia and I am living sweden. I searched a long time for a trustworthy DMAbroker and found them to be reliable. Maybe they still are. I am not sure. Anyway, I was short on USDCHF "that day", so I should be one of the lucky ones, right? Wrong. They closed me out at the price of 1.48!! With a negative balande in My account. The thing is that I just can't find any reliable source that confirms that price ever happening that day, can...
OMG!! This must be one of those "errorneous price"posted by some of their "backup liquidity providers" through Currenex after their main liquidity providers like Deutsche Bank shut down their price quote system according to their first public email below:

Dear Client,


This email is concerning the CHF position(s) on your trading account and the prices streamed across the CHF pairs that have affected you today.


Today at 11:30 platform time (GMT+2) the Swiss National Bank removed the floor at 1.20 on the EURCHF currency pair which caused extreme volatility in all CHF pairs and the market in general.


Over this period we saw spreads widen significantly which in turn caused the activation of price filters to stop pricing.

Once pricing stopped on our main Integral price feed our backup price feed from Currenex was allowed to price. It was at this time that some liquidity providers were able to stream erroneous prices to IC Markets and execute client trades at prices they shouldn’t have.


Today IC Markets will be amending the prices on trades done across the CHF pairs with our liquidity providers. Once we have had these trades amended we will begin the process of adjusting clients accounts. This may include but not be limited to the actions below:


• Reinstatement of positions where appropriate and possible

• Amendment of open/close prices on trades

• Assessment of client portfolios closed due to insufficient margin

• Adjusting client cash balances to reflect the actions above


IC Markets staff will be working as fast as possible to complete the above and restore trading accounts to their correct state. We appreciate your patience as we complete this.

that is the IC Markets's reply to the event.hope may help you.

Email them, chat with them, call them and tell them your trade needs to be adjusted because the price is wrong. If they don't comply, complain about them to ASIC, the regulatory body that IC Markets is regulated under. They can't do that s*** to you.

Good luck!
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #276
  • Jan 21, 2015 2:54pm Jan 21, 2015 2:54pm
forexia, connect, thank's for your input. I do not know if I missunderstand their answer but to me it kind of seems like they already made adjustments to the CHF trades on my account. Strange though because the price of closure still remains at 1.48. Can you believe how bad this must be for some traders when My position only was 0,04lot
  • #277
  • Jan 21, 2015 3:01pm Jan 21, 2015 3:01pm
If you have arbitraly changes pricing by Saxo bank and gets huge amount of loss you can join http://saxobankcug.freeforums.net/.
  • #278
  • Jan 21, 2015 3:12pm Jan 21, 2015 3:12pm
To anyone that cares, I can confirm a lot of brokers are taking losses and wiping negative balances out at their own expense, not just bucket shops.

I can also confirm, some brokers have offered deals with their clients to wipe losses, if the client agrees to deposit a certain % of negative balance (under 50%) and do certain volume in certain time. I can't give more specifics, but a friend of mine received the above mantioned deal.

I can also confirm this isn't as simple as people think and there are serious doubts of errenous behavior and manipulation from LP's and brokers, and regulators might start droping some bombs soon.

Aim of this post is to let you know you are more than likey able to get a deal (most brokers hunting neg. balances are willing to agree for 50% straight away, some will agree to even 30% being paid straight away). I have no information if that is possible with Alpari since administrator has taken over.
  • #279
  • Jan 21, 2015 3:20pm Jan 21, 2015 3:20pm
Quoting mkom_prod
Hi. Hope to get some information about this loss I made. hope you can help explain it to me. I use IC markets in australia and I am living sweden. I searched a long time for a trustworthy DMAbroker and found them to be reliable. Maybe they still are. I am not sure. Anyway, I was short on USDCHF "that day", so I should be one of the lucky ones, right? Wrong. They closed me out at the price of 1.48!! With a negative balande in My account. The thing is that I just can't find any reliable source that confirms that price ever happening that day, can...
Oh my god, you must be sitting on a some profit right now, instead..

I think your trade will be revised (you are on the right side here, so don't be discouraged) as 1.48 is clearly a non-sense, my advice is for you to require a fair close on that trade, it mean to be closed at current usdchf price (around 1500pips below your entry price), what is right is right.

As for their "must be paid back in full", don't even think about pay them anything, they owe you a big profit so kindly ask them to review your trade.

If they don't do it, well.. you may as well consider the option of take an airplane to australia and meet a few of these guys, something is really wrong with what happened to you.

Wish you all the best
  • #280
  • Jan 21, 2015 3:25pm Jan 21, 2015 3:25pm
Quoting spaceduck
{quote} Oh my god, you must be sitting on a some profit right now, instead.. I think your trade will be revised (you are on the right side here, so don't be discouraged) as 1.48 is clearly a non-sense, my advice is for you to require a fair close on that trade, it mean to be closed at current usdchf price (around 1500pips below your entry price), what is right is right. As for their "must be paid back in full", don't even think about pay them anything, they owe you a big profit so kindly ask them to review your trade. If they don't do it, well.....
This goes to my previous post of some erranous behavior by LP's and Broker's. Again, this isn't as simple as people think, and there is strong evidence given to regulators in US & Europe that there have been strong manipulations by LP's and Broker's to exacterbate the price movement and widen spreads further.

Personally, I am expecting a shitstorm, and this is probably the most polite way I can put this.
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