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  • #221
  • Jan 21, 2015 1:30am Jan 21, 2015 1:30am
Hi,

guys please explain me: in this situation what does it mean re-quoting? I am at Armada Market, and they told me in email: "we didn’t issue a single re-quote "
How could get the Alpari in this shit (and others brokers)?
  • #222
  • Jan 21, 2015 1:41am Jan 21, 2015 1:41am
Quoting Moka
few points: 1) "So maybe this is what should happen with the LP level. More and more banks should be encouraged to join in to offer liquidity so the forex market liquidity is not controlled in the hands of the 80%. Brokers would have more choices when they are shopping for liquidity brokers." But is it not true that every player is a liquidity provider? What i mean is in a OTC or a exchange some instruments are so popular that there are enough buyers and sellers present so one does even need special liquidity providers or designated market makers?...
That's a good point! I didn't think of that. All the top 5 majors maybe we can generate enough trading volume just trading among the retail market ourselves and really doesn't need the big banks. They are welcome to participate but might not be required. We shall see.

Quoting Moka
Having said that I have a question given that Margin fx is a zero sum game does the broker actually physically lend real cash? like the equity broker does? Take an example: Mr A goes long xyz pair notation value 100000 with his own 1000 and Mr B is the other side of trade with his 1000 so in real physical terms has the broker actually lent 2 x 99000? I don;t think so al he has done is matched the two parties made the spread and just like futures each account is marked to market every day or every second! so when somebody said brokers lends 99K is...
Well if you only have $1000 in your account but you could trade up to 5 standard lots with 500:1 leverage then all those extra $$ beyond your $1000 would've been lent to you by your broker no? It's just that when you close your trades, all those extra money afforded by the leverage is given back to your broker. I don't think there is any physical cash that actually changes hands but yeah everything is marked-to-market by the seconds.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #223
  • Jan 21, 2015 1:56am Jan 21, 2015 1:56am
Quoting armaros
Hi, guys please explain me: in this situation what does it mean re-quoting? I am at Armada Market, and they told me in email: "we didn’t issue a single re-quote " How could get the Alpari in this shit (and others brokers)?
This is the s*** that all the liquidity "providers" like Deutsche, Citi, Barclays (you know all those banks with the flashy logo on your brokers' page) are doing to the brokers when they are passing the trades to them. They basically quote a price to the brokers, and then when the brokers really want the trades executed at that price, they back away from their previous quotes and say "oh no wait, I change my mind, I don't want to give you that price anymore" and basically backing away from their previous quote and then quote a worse price to the brokers. But the broker on one hand has already given us a firm quote that we see on our platform so they end up getting squeezed.

http://forexmagnates.com/breaking-ig...tility-in-chf/
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #224
  • Jan 21, 2015 2:34am Jan 21, 2015 2:34am
I have been trading small for a couple of years, until this week I had no idea you could be held responsible for negative balances. Having had a few accounts closed in the early days on margin calls, I thought (like many others I think) that a zero balance is as bad as it gets. I have checked my accounts with both Oanda and Forex.com, they have different rules. Forex.com just confirmed in live chat that I would be responsible for negative balances, but that its "very rare!". Oanda however, automatically close the account and the client is not responsible for further losses.

There seems to be a huge amount of arrogance and venom vented on these forums, which you have to wade through to access the facts - a lot of contempt directed at newbie small traders, which makes it quite unpleasant to read. I am glad I took the trouble to read these posts this week, and can now take appropriate action to protect my accounts. Some have not been so lucky.
  • #225
  • Edited 3:13am Jan 21, 2015 2:59am | Edited 3:13am
Quoting CurrencyAnalyst
The huge difference between SLIPPAGE and GAPPING is likened to letter A vs Z. Gapping is where price is Y.XY here and then appears again as if on the other end of a worm hole as YY.XYX if even a second later. Every number conceivable between the two points never existed. This is not a definable slip in count. It's a Jump in Value up or down. it's gettable yes, when you get a little bonus on the fill you feel good and when the thing slips indeed words come to mind. Don't beat each other up over semantics with this. Trading was never supposed to be...
Actually, slippage is gapping & vice versa. It's really a matter of perspective. Many of us see charts in 1m & above TFs but if we could see charts plotted in seconds, milliseconds, microseconds, etc we'd see "gaps" allover the place! Even when there's a "slippage" by 2 points/pipettes, it's essentially a "gap" because as you've put it "Every number conceivable between the two points never existed." so if one were to define a "gap" that way then when the price falls from 1.00003 to 1.00001 then that would also be considered a "gap" & it could be seen as such if we plot charts in extremely tiny timescales. (Moreover, "conceivable numbers" don't end at 5 decimal places!) Of course, many people might not even care about such a "gap" while a lot of people care about the gaps the other day because they were massive but so as far as sematics go, slippage & gapping can just be a matter of perspective.
  • #226
  • Jan 21, 2015 3:31am Jan 21, 2015 3:31am
Here's the interesting article from Yahoo Finance blogger about Saxo Bank's modus operadi:

http://firstadopter.tumblr.com/post/...to-its-clients

I would like once more to inform our forex community that Saxo Bank makes a lot of pressure on its customers.

At the same time their bucket-shop regulator in Denmark keeps silence.
  • #227
  • Jan 21, 2015 3:36am Jan 21, 2015 3:36am
Maybe we should chase brokers for our forced losses..lol
  • #228
  • Jan 21, 2015 3:42am Jan 21, 2015 3:42am
Quoting citidzen
Here's the interesting article from Yahoo Finance blogger about Saxo Bank's modus operadi: http://firstadopter.tumblr.com/post/...to-its-clients I would like once more to inform our forex community that Saxo Bank makes a lot of pressure on its customers. At the same time their bucket-shop regulator in Denmark keeps silence.
That's exactly what I posted before:

In effect, what has appeared to have taken place is a massive ‘requote’ in the market. Mostly known for taking place between retail brokers and their customers, the table has been turned with brokers receiving word from banks that some of their trades with them have been cancelled. A letter to clients from one of the largest primary bank reviewed by Forex Magnates, stated that “significant issues” took place during the price drop and actual executions may not match that which was reported by their electronic systems. The result is that brokers who had filled customers, may still be on the hook for those trades with their counterparties after seeing trades with banks repriced due to initial rates ‘being out of the market’.

http://forexmagnates.com/breaking-ig...tility-in-chf/

And what Saxo is doing is even worse. It's even going back to trades that's already confirmed closed and requoted them and said "uh you owe us more money because the rate that we closed your trade with has been revised". And this is almost a WEEK after the SNB event. Glad I am not the only one who believes that regulators should step in and do something about these greedy "prime banks".
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #229
  • Jan 21, 2015 3:58am Jan 21, 2015 3:58am
obviously, this is the problem of the broker, saxo bank here. glad i closed my account long time ago, just didn't feel they are genuine at that time, but anyway, i only traded stocks CFDs with them before, so who am I to say about their forex staff.
  • #230
  • Jan 21, 2015 4:09am Jan 21, 2015 4:09am
Just found this

brokers forgiving -ve balances

http://forexmagnates.com/covered-bro...ng-chf-crisis/

one can only hope this list will grow

come on cmc, join the list
  • #231
  • Jan 21, 2015 4:09am Jan 21, 2015 4:09am
Quoting connect_ananth
to forexia's point ,, I think his concern was lack of any quotes for a period of time... and perhaps he would have been totally fine even if they were quoting price at 0.06 (the lowest proclaimed ) through this period ...


I doubt Forexia would have been any happier had he been filled at 0.06XXX, even if LPs had continued quoting (I think some brokers were still quoting & haven''t re-priced trades that took place at the time so may be some LP were still quoting). One of the first steps towards becoming a successful trader in the long-run is to assume responsibility for one's trading, & Forexia seems incapable of doing that.

Quoting connect_ananth
well practically lack of quotes is understandable in this situation as nobody even the big banks were sure OF THE TRUE PRICE ( as there was no time to assimilate the news) -- perhaps would it have had less impact had SNB announced during the weekend .. (apparently they wanted to do this before 22nd so did not have this option) .. just wondering if in case they had that chance .. would it have helped ...
I think it would have still gapped down massively even if the announcement had been made over the weekend but perhaps it wouldn't have led to lack of quotes issue that Forexia seems pissed about (of course, then he would have moaned about the gap itself!)

I think the biggest issue was that SNB made that announcement in an "unscheduled meeting", which meant that everybody, including LPs I presume, were taken off-guard. So as would be expected, the only wise thing one can think of doing under such uncertainty is to protect oneself & stop trading, which is what LPs did I guess. And you're absolutely right about nobody being sure of the "true price" (that's why markets should be free of such government interventions!) & perhaps, that's why after the initial shock, LPs decided to start quoting around about the levels where the price was 3 years ago when SNB had decided to intervene; the pair was in a strong downtrend at the time & SNB started to push it upwards.

I think even if SNB had announced about the meeting beforehand (or as you've suggested about doing it over the weekend) then it would have allowed professionals & LPs to remain mentally prepared even if they didn't actually know for sure that the 1.2 floor was going to be removed. Price would still have fallen significantly, even to the levels that it has settled at right now but perhaps, all the chaos caused by lack of quotes wouldn't have happened.

Obviously, the best thing would be for governments to not meddle in the markets & let them be free but that's perhaps too much to expect from territorial monopolies of power!
  • #232
  • Jan 21, 2015 4:24am Jan 21, 2015 4:24am
trust me, if SNB announced it during the weekend, it's going to cause a lot of psychological pains as the anxiety level could really struck a weak mind. the end result is no difference, and it could be worse.

so for me, i would rather prefer a sudden death, maybe hit by a meteor, than waiting to be executed as a criminal, the hours before the execution is a hell to endure.
  • #233
  • Jan 21, 2015 5:31am Jan 21, 2015 5:31am
Morning/Afternoon/evening everyone

Just seen this online showing a list of brokers who are forgiving clients. My broker, Gain Capital is on there however they have emailed me and called me this morning (both ignored).

http://forexmagnates.com/covered-bro...ng-chf-crisis/

Interesting to see the list of brokers covering the losses though. I bet now when anyone signs up they will tighten right up to prevent anything like this happening in the future.
  • #234
  • Jan 21, 2015 5:32am Jan 21, 2015 5:32am
Quoting citidzen
Here's the interesting article from Yahoo Finance blogger about Saxo Bank's modus operadi: http://firstadopter.tumblr.com/post/...to-its-clients I would like once more to inform our forex community that Saxo Bank makes a lot of pressure on its customers. At the same time their bucket-shop regulator in Denmark keeps silence.
After all this how can a single trader stay at Saxo ...
  • #235
  • Jan 21, 2015 5:47am Jan 21, 2015 5:47am
Quoting osceiv2
{quote} After all this how can a single trader stay at Saxo ...

No one. They are now facing a bank run.

An incredible amount of negative reviews about them:

http://www.goforex.net/reviews/saxo-bank.htm
  • #236
  • Jan 21, 2015 6:31am Jan 21, 2015 6:31am
Quoting verv
I'm not going to get much likes for this post. But the people who didn't act responsibly where those who leveraged their account to such a degree that they wiped not only themselves out but potentially lost other people money as well. Thanks to the 94% of traders on my broker who were long on eurchf, my broker is now bankrupt. Thanks to all those who didn't consider that once the floor broke there wouldn't be a buying anywhere near the 1.2 peg, yet you guys expected to be able to get out with pin sharp accuracy. Thanks to those guys not paying back...
What this man said - why can so few see the situation clearly for what it is..
  • #237
  • Jan 21, 2015 6:39am Jan 21, 2015 6:39am
Quoting BBCMicro
{quote} What this man said - why can so few see the situation clearly for what it is..

https://www.intelligentinvestor.com....ews-little-guy
  • #238
  • Jan 21, 2015 6:45am Jan 21, 2015 6:45am
Technically i don't understand how then can forgive ???? it means they are taking a loss for the clients upon themselves ???

Needless to say they were never passing these trades to market and had it in their own books - is this acceptable practice as per current regulations and laws ? before we ask are there even any laws that governs ...

Quoting bg123
Just found this brokers forgiving -ve balances http://forexmagnates.com/covered-bro...ng-chf-crisis/ one can only hope this list will grow come on cmc, join the list
  • #239
  • Jan 21, 2015 6:54am Jan 21, 2015 6:54am
From what I understand some of the brokers have no choice but to chase the clients to get back their $$$.

Its the public companies and the banks, like in the case of FXCM, IG and Saxo...
  • #240
  • Jan 21, 2015 7:01am Jan 21, 2015 7:01am
Very true.. it would have been a nightmare trying to predict the price and heart ache and sleepless night

.... i think the situation might not be that different that anyway the price would have gone down , but for LP and banks ..who knows ( may have ) capped at 1.00 reducing the impact (but hey anyway these will be Forgiven by the brokers who never passed the original trade to market and the ones who did are in serious trouble to recover it from the clients .......)


Quoting zxdtrader
trust me, if SNB announced it during the weekend, it's going to cause a lot of psychological pains as the anxiety level could really struck a weak mind. the end result is no difference, and it could be worse. so for me, i would rather prefer a sudden death, maybe hit by a meteor, than waiting to be executed as a criminal, the hours before the execution is a hell to endure.
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