4X-DAT

To address the DDs mentioned in Post 220, a picture may help us all understand what DAT9 is doing. I do not have "inside knowledge" of how DAT9 is programmed other than knowing that it makes use of Renko bars and executes a lot of Deals. Most of you know I did not ask for Strategy 9 to be loaded...it was a mistake made at the corporate level (I asked for DAT4, Conservative). But, until it reaches another GC, I have to live with it. In the picture below you can see the five GCs DAT9 accomplished in a reasonably short order of time. Then it entered another sequence with a bias to the short side. On about 18 Nov, the draw downs began to become substantial...this is when the software went into the Trade Recovery mode and it closed 57 profitable trades ($1311) as price moved north. However, the original shorts were still Open Deals. Since the closing of all the Trade Recovery longs, additional deals have been opened and currently short positions outweigh longs by about 2 to 1. At last check, the account was down around 35%. Additionally, I am receiving low equity alerts from FXDD. The picture gives a somewhat visual presentation of what the DAT9 has done on this account. (The chart is an H4 time frame)

Love the picture zoopots great way of explaining things

4X-DAT statistics as of 1 Dec 2014. I am no longer tracking Strategy 6 as it's hard to keep up with the deposits/adjustments the company has made to this Strategy to keep it solvent. Strategy 7 will not be tracked either. Those shown below are the ones the majority of we members are trading live. Please note, unlike the corporate postings on their website, I only include Global Closes as this represents cash deposited to the account and not Floating P/L.

The numbers for Strategy 2 have been double checked...use caution if considering this Strategy. Additionally, note the number of months each has been trading and use caution on those without an established track record.

Zoopots, thanks for your answer to post 219.

After buying a DAT license and funding my fxcm account, I requested support to load strategy 4 and start running next Monday. Yesterday support sent me the following message:

"Sometimes it is better to stay out of the market, than to trade at all cost. The market has not behaved in our favor in the last few weeks, so starting up the trader may result in an initial draw down before it gets going, depending on what the market will do. Our tech group has decided to wait until the market stabilizes, rather than have you experience a large draw down at the beginning
of your 4x-Dat trading experience. "

I thought it was awesome to receive such a honest expert advice and totally agree with. I have also requested further details about how to
detect an inadequate market for the DAT.

Meanwhile, since you guys have a lot of experience with the system, I would appreciate if you could give me your thoughts about market
conditions that are favorable for DD. Maybe a "Stay out of the market" command could be an improvement for future DATs versions?

Firex,

I have a few thoughts about your message from support: First, what they basically are saying is that they don't want to activate your account because the market has been range bound the last few weeks and your account may experience a DD if they let you go active on Monday. I have listened repeatedly to JOSEPH'S TRADING METHODOLOGY TUTORIALS on the corporate website and on two separate occasions he states emphatically "The software trades price action and we don't care which way the market goes". The implication is that the software algorithm is so smart that it executes trades, and trade recoveries, no matter what the market does. It has not been my experience, to date, that this is a completely true statement. The majority of the Strategies depend on a trending market and as such, they don't perform well during consolidating (range bound) market conditions. This is where the trader learns what his/her tolerance for DDs really is. So in essence, tech support is going to wait until they feel the market is trending again and then pull your trigger. The bottom line will be that some individual in tech support will make a judgement that the trend has resumed and then allow your software to trade. That, in part, defeats the advertised ability of the software to trade all market conditions.

Next, Strategy 4 is the Conservative strategy that corporate recommends beginners start out with so what's the concern? Load the software and let the party get started. If it's as conservative as they advertise, it should not result in some of the larger DDs seen with DAT9. I'd like to know with all the corporate accounts if tech support waited for "favorable conditions" before they turned them loose...I think not. Also, when they noticed a consolidating market, did they disconnect the accounts....again, I doubt it! So either we believe in the software or we don't...it's pretty basic in my mind. Good luck in getting a response about what constitutes an "inadequate market". Those of us who have been watching the DAT for some time remember that earlier this year Joseph "modified" DAT5 because it was basically programmed for a trending market to "DAT5 Hybrid" (the current DAT8) to trade well in both trending and consolidating markets. With two personal accounts using DAT8 I'm not so sure the consolidating market algorithm has been solved.

Finally, in tutorial #1 at time 48:00 and tutorial #2 at 1:00:00 Joseph states that "No more than 10% of one's capital should be tied up in all trades that are open". That is received well in a classroom environment, but there are many of us contributing to this thread who will tell you the software ties up much more than that. You have to be ready for that fact of automated trading.

I have studied the tutorials, digested Joseph's videos and listened to numerous 4X-DAT webinars. Not once, not a single time, have I ever heard the speaker say "There will be periods of time to avoid using our software"! I'm pretty sure I know why...a statement like that makes sales harder to come by. So I find it curious that they have provided you with that advice.

I'm not "down" on the 4X-DAT at this point. My disappointment results from a lack of transparency as previously discussed and the quality of customer service to existing Affiliates that falls routinely into the spectrum of Poor--->Fair.

Hi Zoopots

Im with you in this one. Firstly the Dat 8 Hydrid was designed to trade in a ranging market. It was marketed as the best software for trending and ranging markets

Secondly I would draw your attention to GBP/JPY daily chart attached, and the market has been trending strongly for the past 38 trading days. Which must be good for those who's Dat has been long. ........unfortunately mine has been short all this time, and seems unable to reverse its position.

AO,

You're spot on about the ability to "reverse course". What happened in my account(s) is readily seen in the picture below. The chart is a Daily. I had a GC on 11/12 and all was good. Then on 11/13 the GBPJPY began consolidating in a 240 pip range as you can see. The "hybrid" portion of the software began entering numerous short Deals (each red arrow is an actual short Deal which still remains Open as of this posting). So while the overall Daily trend was long, the hybrid part of the algorithm began entering short positions...9 of which are keeping this sequence well underwater. The green arrow is a Closed Trade Recovery Deal and so far there have been 47 various Closed Deals which have not been of sufficient size to reach another GC. All of my accounts are still strongly biased short...it will take a major move north with larger position sizes to offset all the short positions...OR...Yen positive sentiment.



At the next GC, I will consider disconnecting the software and switching to the original Strategy 5 (see Post 223) to use a strategy with a much longer track record.

Here is This weeks chart guys

At least you have positive Equity.

Here's my chart

Just hope It stays that way

My original DAT8 account experienced two GCs this week. Updated stats below:




Experienced 17 GCs since beginning 13 Aug; averaging a GC every 7.2 days.

Latest result from my DAT, it is now in positive equity as GBP/JPY has retraced. Even had a global close the other day. My 3rd one since opening account 18 Nov

I've been looking at the Tutorials posted on the 4x-dat website. It appears that there are a number of hedging strategies touted there; the dates of the presentations are post-FIFO; and I assume that the vast majority of the presentation participants are Americans (subject to FIFO), since the presentation is in the United States.

Does this software have a work-around for FIFO to do these hedging strategies? If not, the software seems extremely pricey to me for an EA (albeit one that appears to be a bunch of EA's in one package that scours the market for trades).

Can anyone comment on that? Sure would appreciate it. I would contact 4x-dat directly, but I don't want to get a bunch of phone calls from them pushing their product if they don't have a workaround for FIFO.

Also, from what I'm reading here, varying performance experiences with their software, making it seem to me that the product is rather pricey for the returns being delivered.

The presentations seem to make the Zone Recovery hedging sequence a no-brainer, can't lose proposition, so I would expect somewhat stellar performance out of an EA running that particular strategy, no?

Well, now that I've read most of the thread, I don't believe 4x-dat is for me, regardless of whether they can side-step FIFO.

I think all of the concepts in the presentations are great, it just doesn't look like the software is good at implementing them or good at implementing them consistently across all market conditions, which is pretty much the case with all EA's; they're good in some market conditions, and they suck in others. A good piece of software, though, should be able to avoid market conditions that are inconsistent with its trading methodology.

For instance, an EA that capitalizes in a ranging market avoids trending markets; an EA that capitalizes on momentum avoids ranging markets.

Additionally, the fact that I would get my money back if the software is unsuccessful at making a paltry 12% for the entire year seems hardly like an enticement; the way the presentations set up the product is that it literally scours the market for every possible trading opportunity in every pair ... . And yet they can only guarantee 12% of performance for the entire year out of the product ... . I could probably dollar cost average into the dollar index and get that same type of performance (not 100% sure on that) and that's hardly "scouring" the market.

I research these products every so often hoping that some clever programmer with a more complex view of the markets will make an EA or suite of EA's that will consistently outperform ... . Still looking ... .

good week this week

Hi Woody-

Most of us have spent a fair amount of money on robots and EAs...4X-DAT is neither. A good explanation of this is on the corporate website which it looks like you're reviewing...good on ya.

Some of the Strategies GLPT has implemented have not been running long enough to bolster a great deal of confidence. Some have way too aggressive draw downs for traders that may be timid (me). But the majority of us that are posting are using Strategy 5 or Strategy 8 ("5 on steroids" which supposedly trades trending markets as well as range bound markets). I watched DAT5 for nearly 8 months before committing my hard earned money to the software. I like the fact that it has returned 10% a month for 22 consecutive months. My personal goal is 4% a month and this has been achieved through the 17 Global Closes I've experienced in my original account.

With regard to the money back guarantee to "realize 12% profit in the first year of use"...I'm not sure what you would consider fairer or better. It may differ for all of us to be sure. I'm actually surprised that GLPT even offered that...most companies do not. In nearly 9 years of trading, I've seen lots of real EAs and Robots that have a "buyer beware" clause in the purchase agreement. But this software is fully programmable and has numerous features that the trader can amend/adjust to his/her trading preferences. You can even program your own parameters which the average EA/Robot does not allow. However, most of the posters on this thread are using the corporate Strategies and their associated algorithms.

With regard to FIFO...the software is most often operated in the stealth mode which (legally) only shows the US Brokers the dominant bias of all the trades. If you have 1.5 lots long and 2.0 lots short, the broker only sees the short trade summary while all trades are carried on the GLPT servers.

Hope this helps some,

Z

8:50 pm Pacific Standard Time on Monday, 15 Dec 2014...

It appears that the GLPT servers are not connected to FXCM servers. On the company menus, no price action for the GBPJPY is evident on any of my accounts and the displayed price differs from FXCM quotes by 50 pips!

Recommend everyone watch your accounts for unusual activity/no activity . I'm receiving no replies from anyone "upstream".

Z

These statements from Joseph that the software trades price action and do not care which way the market goes and no more than 10% of one`s capital should be tied up in all trades that are open were major factors for me buy and start using this software and unfortunately now we know it was not true. I personally suffered massive DD during 1000 plus move up on G/J and when I asked about how it was possible as the software did not care which way the market goes they replied: Sometimes there are situations in the market that cause larger drawdowns than we expect, or that should really happen.
Luckily for would be users there are now threads like this one and someone can go through and decide with more knowledge if is it worth to go but for me an answer from back office like this:"Sometimes it is better to stay out of the market, than to trade at all cost. The market has not behaved in our favor in the last few weeks, so starting up the trader may result in an initial draw down before it gets going, depending on what the market will do. Our tech group has decided to wait until the market stabilizes"
would be a clear signal to run away without hesitation as statement that market has not behaved in our favor in the last few weeks is simply staggering.
Lack of transparency from 4X-DAT main mentors is very sad and causes in some cases real human distress for some software users who mistakenly believed that this software was capable to prevent from big draw dawns.
One of this mentors is Mr Harris who was talking about DAT as something revolutionary and at the time of writing this post his account draw down was well above 70% on his myfxbook account. Is it a normal DD? For me it is not acceptable. When my DD reached 40% I simply apologized few people watching my account for their waste of time and recommended them to stay away unless they are pure gamblers because I know that some accounts are net positive as every DAT is dynamic.
2 months ago some traders experienced big DD during FXCM server shut down because DATs orphaned trades were not being executed properly and according to Mr Harris GLPT offered compensation for this loss but one person who I know submitted all the details required with no response was being made from GLPT site. I know that webinar saying about this failure and compensation by Craig was quickly taken down from his website. Is maybe someone who knows more about it?

This post is long!!!!!!!!!

Greetings to everyone, this is my first post on the ff forum. I came across this forum and this 4X-DAT thread a while ago and I have been following it with keen interest. I will right away congratulate you all especially Zoopots for this thread, as it is currently the richest sources of user experience on 4X-DAT anywhere. I hope that this thread would continue to develop into an invaluable asset in understanding the 4X-DAT software.
I have also bought 4X-DAT license having found it very interesting but yet to open a live account as I am still doing my due diligence on it.

It is also important to also tell everyone here that I am new to Forex trading – a green horn indeed (my experience can be counted in months not years as many of you on the forum). My strengths are in the area of rigorous research methodology and quantitative data analysis. On that note, I will readily accept the mentorship to learn from any of you experience traders on the forum.

Experience so far
I feel compel to contribute to this thread given the discernible doom and gloom atmosphere that seems to be gradually hanging over this thread with so many complains and dissatisfactions being reported. There are also some that neither have 4X-DAT account nor adequate understanding its operations to justify their negative advice.
I have been closely following development on 4X-DAT since June this year and have been gradually accumulating considerable knowledge on its operation. I am currently running a 4X-DAT Demo account with the intention of developing safe and efficient small account strategy using 4X-DAT. It is fascinating and very insightful to watch it do what it does. My current due diligence in not on whether I will use it or not (I have already decided) but it is on how best to use it.

Being mindful of how some people feel, I would hazard to say the following;
a) From my experience, 4X-DAT is still an awesome piece of software, however it is still work in progress just like any other software that will improve with successive future versions.

b) The software currently delivers on its promises with the following obvious riders;
{C}· It is dependent on employing the right strategy
{C}· account size must be large enough to absorb DD
{C}· trade recovery is affected within an indeterminate timeframe
subject to vagaries of the market.

c) The software does not readily lend itself to effective short-term performance
assessment.

Strengths
For me, the most interesting aspect of 4X-DAT is that it is programmable and it is versatile in terms of its capabilities. A lot depends on the inputs. Therefore, it should not be treated as a black box like most EAs. Users need to understand what goes on the inside, in order to know what to expect. The fact is that no matter how awesome, it is merely a tool that have to be used correctly and wisely.
Therefore, those of us interested in using 4X-DAT, need to closely examine these existing strategies closely with the view to understanding them and the workings of 4X-DAT. What makes for trending strategies? What makes for range bound strategies? What make for hybrid strategies? The Key to using 4X-DAT effectively is to learn how to manipulate the software along with input strategies.

Beyond the types of strategies currently being developed with the software, the flexibility of the software offers other possibilities.
I believe such a tool as 4X-DAT can be used to build and execute a robust long-term equity millipede strategy (a wonderful thread on the strategy is somewhere on the FF forum, see link (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=245149)

Weakness
Zoopots once aptly described Strategy 9 as a rabid dog. What a monster. It was fun for me to watch it (on GPLT live account) achieve 7 GC yesterday (16th Dec) netting about $8,589.41. Afterwards, I also watched it lose about the same amount, which would have been added to the total profit with a simple manual over-ride! It is even more insightful to observe that it was struggling with huge DD between 12th Nov. and 9th Dec. without a single GC. The strategy has made over 150k in just two and half months!!!!!! But remember, it is a 200k account strategy.

Strategy 8 is even more awesome having achieved the same feat (150k) with half the account size of Strategy 9 in 2 months and one week!!!!!!! But it is still a 100k account strategy.

I have also watched Strategy 2 employed in mid June, net over 5 times its original account size of 50k along with a 3 month-long DD between June and September! But it is still a 50k strategy!!!
Strategies 2 and 9 are currently in huge DDs. Will they trade out of it – SURE. Their current sizes are enough to absorb these DDs. I hope you all get my drift here? I will guess that most people that are worried or complaining about DD are mostly running smaller accounts (less than 20k).

The current strategies are simply based on managing DD, so current users should not only get use to it but also be adequately prepared for it, in other the ripe the benefits of 4X-DAT.

Challenges
Beyond the current effective communication challenges of GLPT, I think the main discernible problem that many people using 4X-DAT have not done enough due diligence to really understand the 4X-DAT programme, how its many features function and more importantly how best to adapt it to personal needs. It will be more beneficial to see actual screen shot of problematic strategies with their respective trade recovery specifications. Such information would help to advance our current understanding of these strategies and enable us to improve upon them.

The 4X-DAT user community should request for more and more advanced webinars on the workings of the software with the view of gaining full control of the software. Those that followed the recent advanced webinar series knew that the second and third “advanced” webinars intended for these purpose were recently put aside to address more pressing concerns and complains from the 4X-DAT community.
We need to press GPLT to develop a basic 4X-DAT manual. GLPT can also develop more detailed manuals for sale to users. We need to improve our current knowledge, we need to share ideas on how to improve the current weaknesses and limitations of the 4X-DAT and existing Strategies. That way, our collective and continuous feedback will contribute towards improving user experience as well as subsequent versions of the software as time goes on.

Conclusion
While the current spoon-feeding practice whereby ready-made strategies are uploaded for users without their substantial input or oversight is great, it has its limitations. For one, it tends to encourage frequent complains and disappointments with respect to performance. In my opinion, it is not enough to just specify to just choose from the current strategies without understanding them especially if one intends to start with a small account size. The more we understand the software and many of these strategies, the less we will likely complain and pull our hairs out. I believe that while 4X-DAT is still “work in progress”, it has game changing possibilities. My hope is that this type of threads and forum will develop into very rich and constructive source of information that will improve our user experience with 4X-DAT.

My two cents,