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Is anyone here an institutional trader?

  • #581
  • Dec 1, 2014 10:57pm Dec 1, 2014 10:57pm
can't stand to read entire thread
but what ever inst. Traders do...just to imagine the money and power you have, I'd still love to become one.
Maura Zaky Putri Fadhin
  • #582
  • Dec 10, 2014 2:29am Dec 10, 2014 2:29am
Fantastic thread!
Whether you can or you can't, you are both right.
  • #583
  • Dec 14, 2014 8:48am Dec 14, 2014 8:48am
Skenobi,

You said "You can guess significant clusters of levels, but never one price level."

Does guessing where these clusters are come from experience or there is something in the chart structure that can point out these levels? I mean, for retail traders that had no institutional trading experience, how can we learn to identify these. You have seen billions being traded by banks so you are obviously better at identifying these levels.

At the moment, I try to look for small ranges and breakouts from them, and I enter usually at the return to these. However I was wondering if there is more to it. If you are able to identify these clusters, then anyone should be able, right?

Thanks
  • #584
  • Dec 14, 2014 12:29pm Dec 14, 2014 12:29pm
Quoting PacnyTuH0
Skenobi, You said "You can guess significant clusters of levels, but never one price level." Does guessing where these clusters are come from experience or there is something in the chart structure that can point out these levels? I mean, for retail traders that had no institutional trading experience, how can we learn to identify these. You have seen billions being traded by banks so you are obviously better at identifying these levels.
Every time you draw a horizontal S/R with a lot of history (i.e. past history of price testing above and below the lines), you are "guessing"clusters of levels.

Quoting PacnyTuH0
At the moment, I try to look for small ranges and breakouts from them, and I enter usually at the return to these. However I was wondering if there is more to it.
If it works for you, then the answer is "No, there is nothing more to it."

Quoting PacnyTuH0
If you are able to identify these clusters, then anyone should be able, right? Thanks
Dunno about other traders, but I don't try to definitively identify clusters. "Guessing" them is enough for me. And sure... anyone can "guess".
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #585
  • Dec 15, 2014 4:35pm Dec 15, 2014 4:35pm
hi there

Once being an institutional trader, what would you say is key to becoming a successful retail trader. Ie books to read( I love reminisce of a stock trader by the way), charting patterns, indicators(ive read many are usless?) etc
  • #586
  • Dec 15, 2014 7:20pm Dec 15, 2014 7:20pm
Quoting Tizwoz
hi there Once being an institutional trader, what would you say is key to becoming a successful retail trader.
(This advice is to everyone in general and not directed to Tizwoz)

One of the keys to becoming a successful retail trader: Stop dreaming of being an institutional trader.

Other than being in a position to get a mentor for free (not counting the drinks you have to buy for everyone or the spittle shower you get when you screw up or lose money), there's no material advantage from being a Bank trader that can be applied to making it as a retail trader.

Some of you will prattle on with a list of "advantages" (all of which I can assure you I've heard before), and I can waste time rebutting each "advantage", but I'm not gonna do that coz I've got better things to do.

Besides, if you have to DREAM of being one or if you have to ASK how to be one in forums like these, then it's highly likely you will NEVER BE ONE. Institutional traders are usually Type A personalities that don't wait for spoon feedings and who are not lazy to go out there and GET the job.

When I was in high school, I read a book called Liar's Poker, and since then I KNEW I wanted to be a trader; I did not DREAM to be one. So I went out to DO MY OWN HOMEWORK (there was no Google in those days) to GET THE JOB. I didn't ask silly questions.


Quoting Tizwoz
Ie books to read( I love reminisce of a stock trader by the way), charting patterns, indicators(ive read many are usless?) etc
Believe it or not, I've not read Reminiscenses during my entire 16 year career as a Bank trader. I read it recently and I thought the book was over-rated and a complete waste of my time. I suppose if you did not have a mentor then maybe the book will "help" but it's more a cautionary tale to me. You get more value from the Market Wizards series.

As for reading books in general, learning chart patterns, and using indicators etc... if none of them has made any difference to your trading, then yeah, they're useless. Period.

When that happens, just move on. The learning and the adapting never stops.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #587
  • Dec 15, 2014 8:52pm Dec 15, 2014 8:52pm
Hi

Thanks for(somewhat hostile) reply, but I believe you may of misread or mistook my question for another!

I for one certainly don't dream of being an institutional trader! In fact I detest the idea! Working ridiculous hrs, mountains of stress, living on a knifes edge, just to appease his peers. I like money...but not that much!
I thought it was a straight question on advice, however you gave me and perhaps others who read this negativity, which is somewhat daunting from an ex professional on a forex forum.
I'm a realist, if you work hard enough and breathe as much as you want to succeed you will become successful in ANY agenda you have. Do I think fx is going to make me rich? nope! do I think if put £1000 in I'm going to get 10000000 out..that's dreaming! I do believe that in maybe 5-10 years or so of consistent studying, dedication and hard work, I may be able to create a sustainable income

Just for the record. If the internet was readily available and with more than the Atari, with 3 lines and a ball on the screen and retail trading was like it is now. I'm almost certain you would of used it to your full advantage

kieran
  • #588
  • Edited Dec 16, 2014 7:27pm Dec 15, 2014 10:09pm | Edited Dec 16, 2014 7:27pm
Quoting Tizwoz
Hi Thanks for(somewhat hostile) reply, but I believe you may of misread or mistook my question for another!
If you had actually read my post, (even tho I quoted your post) I did say...
Quoting skenobi
{quote} (This advice is to everyone in general and not directed to Tizwoz)

Quoting Tizwoz
In fact I detest the idea! Working ridiculous hrs, mountains of stress, living on a knifes edge, just to appease his peers. I like money...but not that much!
Good for you!


Quoting Tizwoz
I thought it was a straight question on advice, however you gave me and perhaps others who read this negativity, which is somewhat daunting from an ex professional on a forex forum.
Welcome to Forex Factory and the Wild Wild West uncivilised world of online forex forums.
You asked what the key was to becoming a successful trader, and I took the time to answer. To summarize:

  1. Don't be an institutional.
  2. By all means, read books.
  3. By all means, learn chart patterns.
  4. By all means, use indicators.
  5. But if none of the above works, then go back to the top of the list and start over.


If you think my mechanical way of answering is negative, I really do pray that you are able to handle the negativity of losses with less uppity-ness, and wish you well.

Quoting Tizwoz
If the internet was readily available and with more than the Atari, with 3 lines and a ball on the screen and retail trading was like it is now. I'm almost certain you would of used it to your full advantage kieran
I totally agree.

If.

My point: I did my homework without the internet. And even WITH the internet today, there are plenty of people on this forum (not you obviously) who still don't know how to Google.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #589
  • Dec 16, 2014 5:04am Dec 16, 2014 5:04am
It seems this could go into some sort of tick for tack argument! This is not what I want. I've had many loses as I'm not totally new to this game, however you're the first (and most probably the last) institutional trader I've spoken too, hence the question on advice. You told me what I already know, was hoping you my elaborate but never mind

kieran
  • #590
  • Dec 16, 2014 8:43am Dec 16, 2014 8:43am
Quoting Tizwoz
hi there Once being an institutional trader, what would you say is key to becoming a successful retail trader. Ie books to read( I love reminisce of a stock trader by the way), charting patterns, indicators(ive read many are usless?) etc
I like what Skenobi had to say. BUT I think the biggest thing you should think about is preserving your capital until you learn how to trade profitably on a consistent basis. There are no scholarships in the trading world, there is always a tuition bill to pay, just make sure it's not a big one.
  • #591
  • Dec 16, 2014 3:57pm Dec 16, 2014 3:57pm
Thanks jacob
  • #592
  • Dec 16, 2014 7:41pm Dec 16, 2014 7:41pm
Quoting Tizwoz
You told me what I already know, was hoping you my elaborate but never mind kieran
I think you're not giving yourself a lot of credit. Perhaps you should be relieved that maybe what you already know is already enough.

The keys to successful trading (that I think I have) is nothing fancy that only institutionals know about, and is about as basic as any traditional advice expounded on this Forum and elsewhere.

Good luck, nevertheless. And feel free to put me on your Ignore list.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #593
  • Dec 17, 2014 3:37pm Dec 17, 2014 3:37pm
skenobi answers very directly. People should be thankful for these answers. This post says a lot. Being a professional is a way of thinking. Being stuck on finding "secrets" won't get you to "professional" status.

"The keys to successful trading (that I think I have) is nothing fancy that only institutionals know about" end.....of....story
  • #594
  • Dec 20, 2014 12:15pm Dec 20, 2014 12:15pm
Just wanted to thank all of you who have shared your experiences, thoughts and opinions.

Shenobi I'm on the 2nd reading of the entire thread, and wondered if you use an ECN or STP or Market Maker in your private retail trading. I know that you referenced the 3 in the thread, but I couldn't find if you said what you prefer personally. Again thank you and Best Wishes and Continued Success
Gp
Nobody ever went broke closing a trade in profit
  • #595
  • Dec 21, 2014 8:09am Dec 21, 2014 8:09am
Quoting gp00053
Just wanted to thank all of you who have shared your experiences, thoughts and opinions. Shenobi I'm on the 2nd reading of the entire thread, and wondered if you use an ECN or STP or Market Maker in your private retail trading.
You'll have to keep wondering this, I'm afraid. I've used all kinds and my current ones aren't all that great service-wise. Therefore I will decline your further probings on this subject as I do not wish anything I say about brokers to be construed as endorsement/criticism in any way, shape or form.

Quoting gp00053
I know that you referenced the 3 in the thread, but I couldn't find if you said what you prefer personally. Again thank you and Best Wishes and Continued Success Gp
I don't remember stating a specific preference in this thread or any other thread. But I do remember mentioning that my trading style does not require a broker to be this way or that (i.e. to be ECN, STP, this, that or whatever).
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #596
  • Dec 21, 2014 11:39am Dec 21, 2014 11:39am
No problem and again thanks for the info in the thread
Gp
Nobody ever went broke closing a trade in profit
  • #597
  • Dec 21, 2014 9:14pm Dec 21, 2014 9:14pm
Hi Skenobi,

I read most of your earlier posts and then started skimming through the later pages (apologies) and I am curious in your take on using supply and demand level consolidations to see "order flow" (hopefully I'm using the right word?). I have been following Sam Seiden's webinars and his approach to S/D zones as well as the Alfonso Moreno and ReadtheMarket threads here. I'm pretty sure your response is that reading these levels come from practice, but I see some differences and variations in techniques used to identify them. Just wondering if you can elaborate on why there is this difference and such?

Thanks
  • #598
  • Dec 21, 2014 10:01pm Dec 21, 2014 10:01pm
Quoting jhehe
Hi Skenobi, I read most of your earlier posts and then started skimming through the later pages (apologies) and I am curious in your take on using supply and demand level consolidations to see "order flow" (hopefully I'm using the right word?).
My "take" on this subject (along with the "take" of a few other members) is pretty well documented in this thread (if am not mistaken). Perhaps you can use the Christmas break to peruse (instead of to skim) the thread? I don't think it'll take more than a couple of hours to digest.

Quoting jhehe
I'm pretty sure your response is that reading these levels come from practice, but I see some differences and variations in techniques used to identify them.
From your use of the conjunction "but", I sense that you have problems with "differences" and "variations".

I, on the other hand, have no problems with "differences" and "variations". There is no one way to identify "stuff". Different traders have different "edges" that work just for them, and all of these edges require "practice".

Quoting jhehe
Just wondering if you can elaborate on why there is this difference and such? Thanks
Well, I know there ARE "differences and such". But I've never asked "WHY" there are differences... probably because KNOWING the answer to the "why" question doesn't help me make money? Dunno.. Maybe that's just me, tho. I haven't been much of an academic.

I'm sure it's still a relevant question to SOMEone somewhere out there, so I hope my fellow former (or still operating) Bank operators can find time to answer you here.

In closing, I think Hoot (from the movie "Black Hawk Down") says it best to underline my feelings on answering such "why" questions (or similars):

"See you're thinking. Don't. 'Cause Sergeant, you can't control who gets hit or who doesn't or who falls out of a chopper or why. It ain't up to you. It's just war."
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #599
  • Dec 21, 2014 11:34pm Dec 21, 2014 11:34pm
Holiday man...
take the time to break...we need that

wish we all have a blessed 2015
Maura Zaky Putri Fadhin
  • #600
  • Dec 22, 2014 6:23pm Dec 22, 2014 6:23pm
Alright, guess I got a ton of Christmas reading to do. Thanks for the detailed reply.
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