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Trading Sayings: Fact or Fiction

  • #21
  • Nov 25, 2014 2:33am Nov 25, 2014 2:33am
Quoting Forexnuts
{quote} Majority of newbies lose their shirts for obvious reasons.. but as regards traders following rules losing, sorry, have a hard time swallowing that bit and here's why. Let's accept your argument as it is, for the moment, So following rules makes you lose money in forex, right? And as for the traders who have traded profitably, these are the ones who have followed the same rules. Based on your argument, the traders who traded profitably, must all be doing so based on a random order. But if that were the case, then all the traders who have...

The way I see it, it's a fascinating paradox, for example, losers also follow this type of rule (as you said: "including yours truly for the last few years has been making pips consistently with dd within limits and on the low side") and so do the winners, apparently. Same rules, different results.
So winning / losing is not about following rules. Because, for some, following rules makes them lose money AND for others, the same rules will make them money...
Something else must be going on, perhaps in the subconscious..
  • #22
  • Nov 25, 2014 10:23am Nov 25, 2014 10:23am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} The way I see it, it's a fascinating paradox, for example, losers also follow this type of rule (as you said: "including yours truly for the last few years has been making pips consistently with dd within limits and on the low side") and so do the winners, apparently. Same rules, different results. So winning / losing is not about following rules. Because, for some, following rules makes them lose money AND for others, the same rules will make them money... Something else must be going on, perhaps in the subconscious..
Rules.. which is applied in different times (e.g.) different market conditions. That's the reason of wins and losses. And times for their application seems to be the core trading strategy. What losers get is simply fail, what winners get is luck.. Simple as that..
  • #23
  • Nov 25, 2014 11:52pm Nov 25, 2014 11:52pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} The way I see it, it's a fascinating paradox, for example, losers also follow this type of rule (as you said: "including yours truly for the last few years has been making pips consistently with dd within limits and on the low side") and so do the winners, apparently. Same rules, different results. So winning / losing is not about following rules. Because, for some, following rules makes them lose money AND for others, the same rules will make them money... Something else must be going on, perhaps in the subconscious..
LOL, I know..there are times I wonder about this, about the karmic balance and all the spiritual stuff and whether it somehow dictates the market..
The way I see it, a trader needs a lot more than blind belief to land pips, he would need actual skills and be able to apply it effectively..
  • #24
  • Nov 29, 2014 11:36pm Nov 29, 2014 11:36pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} The way I see it, it's a fascinating paradox.....
This brings to mind the saying: "a good trader follows his rules; a great trader knows when to break them".
Perhaps there's some truth in that?

Some time ago I wrote an EA for Claudia, an ex-bank trader who these days trades privately for her living. The EA supposedly trades exactly according to her rules, which are fairly simple and unambiguous. Yet Claudia is profitable, but the EA is not.

I bookmarked these posts by Fudomyo (here and here) because they made good sense to me.
And also in similar context, a very thought provoking one by Topherhk88 here.
Perhaps the answers to your paradox lie somewhere within the ideas discussed in these posts.
  • #25
  • Nov 30, 2014 1:43am Nov 30, 2014 1:43am
Hanover - Yes, I'd agree with that statement. Perhaps treating the 'rules' as guidelines would help people stop trying to be too rigid about how they trade and adjust to market conditions.

Also, I appreciate the links, as they refer to very good posts.
  • #26
  • Nov 30, 2014 3:41am Nov 30, 2014 3:41am
Quoting hanover
{quote} This brings to mind the saying: "a good trader follows his rules; a great trader knows when to break them". Perhaps there's some truth in that? Some time ago I wrote an EA for Claudia, an ex-bank trader who these days trades privately for her living. The EA supposedly trades exactly according to her rules, which are fairly simple and unambiguous. Yet Claudia is profitable, but the EA is not. I bookmarked these posts by Fudomyo (here...
... well then, the overall overwhelming evidence and conclusion is that trading is an art form
It's the art of "keeping what you have and getting what you can"
  • #27
  • Nov 30, 2014 4:23am Nov 30, 2014 4:23am
Thanks Hanover for the Links, some great posts there.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #28
  • Nov 30, 2014 5:57am Nov 30, 2014 5:57am
Hi All,

I think everyone knew the rule below for trading forex:

Ride the trend: buy on dip and sell rallies
Money management: risk 2% account, use stop loss, risk and reward ratio
Control your emotional: greed, fear
Plan you trade: discipline and patient
Therefore, trading is art not science

But applying the principle is very hard and difficult because we are very difficult to control your emotion (fear & greed). Even, if we can apply the principle we can not trade forex for living because return too low due to money management or you must have a large deposit amount. If you are in loosing position with large deposit will impact your emotion (fear) or if you are in winning position with large deposit amount you fear the default from broker. Therefore, trading forex due with a lot of risk and emotion.
  • #29
  • Nov 30, 2014 12:32pm Nov 30, 2014 12:32pm
Quoting Mingary
All trading rules are designed to make you lose money.
some time you tell the truth

most of time you are un-optimistic
  • #30
  • Nov 30, 2014 4:37pm Nov 30, 2014 4:37pm
The Trend is your friend: for sure and there is only 1 trend which is on the TF you are trading from.

Buy Low, Sell High: and pigs fly!

Catch a falling knife: I agree not to do it

Risk 1-3%: BS designed only to make us deposit big $

Bonus tip: trade just one instrument.
  • #31
  • Nov 30, 2014 6:54pm Nov 30, 2014 6:54pm
Quoting Vitez
The Trend is your friend: for sure and there is only 1 trend which is on the TF you are trading from. Buy Low, Sell High: and pigs fly! Catch a falling knife: I agree not to do it Risk 1-3%: BS designed only to make us deposit big $ Bonus tip: trade just one instrument.
i have an idea (like all other rookies that made a trade system work on all the instruments) then i understand that if i trade on one instrument and get my 1% why i need like this system

really nice bonus tip.

thanks.
  • #32
  • Nov 30, 2014 10:12pm Nov 30, 2014 10:12pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} ... well then, the overall overwhelming evidence and conclusion is that trading is an art form It's the art of "keeping what you have and getting what you can"
Reminds me of another saying "it's easy to make money trading, but more difficult to keep it" (source)
  • #33
  • Dec 1, 2014 2:26am Dec 1, 2014 2:26am
Quoting hanover
{quote} Reminds me of another saying "it's easy to make money trading, but more difficult to keep it" (source)
Cut-throat is right...
I would love to extract a bit of money from the snarling and greedy jaws of that pack of dogs..
  • #34
  • Dec 1, 2014 3:46am Dec 1, 2014 3:46am
Quoting hamedmohd
{quote} i have an idea (like all other rookies that made a trade system work on all the instruments) then i understand that if i trade on one instrument and get my 1% why i need like this system really nice bonus tip. thanks.
how about you learn some English?
  • #35
  • Dec 1, 2014 3:47am Dec 1, 2014 3:47am
Quoting hanover
{quote} Reminds me of another saying "it's easy to make money trading, but more difficult to keep it" (source)
difficult to keep it? well then withdraw and buy an ice cream....BS saying...
  • #36
  • Dec 1, 2014 5:11am Dec 1, 2014 5:11am
Quoting Vitez
{quote} how about you learn some English?


sorry English it is my second language

sometime i read what i wrote and i need sometime to understand it
  • #37
  • Dec 1, 2014 5:44pm Dec 1, 2014 5:44pm
Quoting Vitez
{quote} difficult to keep it? well then withdraw and buy an ice cream....BS saying...
It's not my opinion, I'm merely quoting a very successful private banker (see the link in my post).
  • #38
  • Dec 2, 2014 2:53am Dec 2, 2014 2:53am
Quoting hanover
{quote} It's not my opinion, I'm merely quoting a very successful private banker (see the link in my post).
I understood that.
  • #39
  • Dec 2, 2014 3:57am Dec 2, 2014 3:57am
They say : Always use Risk - Reward ratio, better 1 :2, best 1:3

Say you want to make 20 pips, then your SL must be at 10 pips
or TP 100, SL 50...mmmmhhh I think it's hard to follow,
Maura Zaky Putri Fadhin
  • #40
  • Dec 2, 2014 4:07am Dec 2, 2014 4:07am
Quoting azmoeth
They say : Always use Risk - Reward ratio, better 1 :2, best 1:3
That's not really a saying, as something like "The trend is your friend."

Secondly, the whole discussion of R:R and setting a specific ratio to close a trade seems a bit ridiculous. Sure, go ahead and use a stop loss at a range to limit your risk, but the upside is, well...potentially open-ended. Unless of course you 'know' the market is ranging or nearing the end of a trend or any other predictive plan. (But no one knows, now do they.)

Just let the trade run and finish and stop cutting off potential profits.
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