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The Ladder System

  • #41
  • Nov 9, 2014 6:15am Nov 9, 2014 6:15am
Quoting abokwaik
{quote} Step size is very important depending on each pair. So in order to not get stopped so often I recommend using a step size of not less than ADR and SL of at least the same or bigger. It is also important that depending on the margin required for the lot size to be covered from the profit of the previous order's profit.More details on this when I'm back in the office. Regards,

Hi abokwaik,

Good thread. Congrats!
I hope to be able to contribute some ideas here.

This is a good money management strategy and work well on day chart trading. I use a similar MM system and using an EA to manage all my trades on D chart.
You are correct to use the ADR to determine the distance for add-in more positions after we place the 1st trade entry manually.
The Initial SL is using the ADR and the position size calculate using a % of capital. The each subsequent add-on position is half of the initial trade.
Trailing stop has differnt options. I use to trail 2 days behind after each new day open. I use stop orders using the ADR distance.

Below is an example:

Kind regards,
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Honesty is a very expensive gift. You wont find it in cheap people.WBuffett
  • #42
  • Nov 9, 2014 6:16am Nov 9, 2014 6:16am
1. Deposit: 10.000, CADJPY, 100 pips step size, 100 pips SL, MaxOpenOrder=8, 2013-2014. aug. Free margin was enough till the end of the test period.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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1. Deposit: 10.000, CADJPY, 200 pips step size, 200 pips SL, MaxOpenOrder=8, 2013-2014. aug. Free margin was enough till the end of the test period.
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  • #43
  • Nov 9, 2014 6:21am Nov 9, 2014 6:21am
Quoting moncsicsi78
1. Deposit: 10.000, CADJPY, 100 pips step size, 100 pips SL, 2013-2014. aug. Free margin was enough till the end of the test period. {image}

Thank you moncsicsi, great test.

Do you have tick data for other pairs, as I mentioned earlier CAD/JPY was in range during this period. Also it might have a bigger spread compared to majors (on my terminal its 6 pips).
No guts, no glory
  • #44
  • Nov 9, 2014 6:27am Nov 9, 2014 6:27am
Quoting emmanuel7788
{quote} Hi abokwaik, Good thread. Congrats! I hope to be able to contribute some ideas here. This is a good money management strategy and work well on day chart trading. I use a similar MM system and using an EA to manage all my trades on D chart. You are correct to use the ADR to determine the distance for add-in more positions after we place the 1st trade entry manually. The Initial SL is using the ADR and the position size calculate using a % of capital. The each subsequent add-on position is half of the initial trade. Trailing stop has differnt...
You are most welcome emmanuel.
Your contribution along with other fellows here is highly appreciated.
This is a joint effort for the benefit of all, and once we reach a reliable system I will share the MQL Source file here.

I will add wish list in the first post for all members to suggest improvements.
No guts, no glory
  • #45
  • Nov 9, 2014 6:28am Nov 9, 2014 6:28am
Quoting abokwaik
{quote} Thank you moncsicsi, great test. Do you have tick data for other pairs, as I mentioned earlier CAD/JPY was in range during this period. Also it might have a bigger spread compared to majors (on my terminal its 6 pips).
I have EURUSD, EURCHF and EURJPY tck data.

I tested on CADJPY with fix 2 pips spread..

I don't think that the range period as the reason of the pure test, because I did the tests with 100 and 200 pips step size! It is more than much.
(However sometimes the more little the step size, the better the results.)

This is a test result of the most ranging pair: EURCHF
Deposit: 10.000, pip step size: 100, SL: 100, Max orders: 8, 2013 - 2014. april (I have tick data till just april of 2014), free margin was enough till the end of test period.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #46
  • Nov 9, 2014 6:35am Nov 9, 2014 6:35am
Quoting aahmad29
{quote} It is interesting idea, I think you can keep first order open by users because in that way all traders can start building ladder on the base of their concept or strategy. I am subscribed
Added to wish List on 1st page.
No guts, no glory
  • #47
  • Nov 9, 2014 6:37am Nov 9, 2014 6:37am
Quoting moncsicsi78
{quote} I have EURUSD, EURCHF and EURJPY tck data. I tested on CADJPY with fix 2 pips spread.. I don't think that the range period as the reason of the pure test, because I did the tests with 100 and 200 pips step size! It is more than much. (However sometimes the more little the step size, the better the results.)
Thanks again for your efforts. How did it perform on EUR/USD if you happen to test it.
No guts, no glory
  • #48
  • Nov 9, 2014 6:39am Nov 9, 2014 6:39am
Quoting abokwaik
{quote} Thanks again for your efforts. How did it perform on EUR/USD if you happen to test it.
I will do it...

But I 've already attached a test from EURCHf (the most ranging pair). See my previous post!
  • #49
  • Nov 9, 2014 6:47am Nov 9, 2014 6:47am
Quoting moncsicsi78
{quote} I will do it... But I 've already attached a test from EURCHf (the most ranging pair). See my previous post!
Yes, I said it will have poor performance in ranging pairs.
What's your point ?
No guts, no glory
  • #50
  • Nov 9, 2014 8:20am Nov 9, 2014 8:20am
Quoting abokwaik
{quote} Yes, I said it will have poor performance in ranging pairs. What's your point ?
EURUSD was bad, too.

My idea: although SL is a "safety belt", but not good.
I think it would be riskier but better to survive and collect profit if the EA can building pyramid orders in the direction of the trend (as it does now), every new level should be protected by trailing stop, but when the market would go against them, the EA shouldn't use SL (as it does now). At this point the EA should work in "Sure Fire ForexHedging" mode (I hope everybody know the old Sure Fire Forex Hedging strategy). It is a range break out gird strategy, the EA can open orders with increasing lot size till finally the market starts to trend. Open long at the top of the "range" (the amount /in pips/ of this range should be set by the users), then if the market goes down, the EA should short at the bottom of the "range"with increased lot size. And finally the market will break out somewhere - Everey orders can be closed in a common profit.

But one imoprtant thing: The EA should always build pyramid orders!

I try to make a draw of my explanation:
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  • #51
  • Nov 9, 2014 8:36am Nov 9, 2014 8:36am
Quoting moncsicsi78
{quote} EURUSD was bad, too. My idea: although SL is a "safety belt", but not good. I think it would be riskier but better to survive and collect profit if the EA can building pyramid orders in the direction of the trend (as it does now), every new level should be protected by trailing stop, but when the market would go against them, the EA shouldn't use SL (as it does now). At this point the EA should work in "Sure Fire ForexHedging" mode (I hope everybody know the old Sure Fire Forex Hedging strategy). It is a range break out gird strategy, the...
I thought it will do well on EUR/USD, strange.

I am aware of the concept of "Sure Fire ForexHedging", and made an EA longtime ago. Its good if you have large account , because it actually a martingale system, so its very risky.

As for the trailing stop, I already added it to the Wish List and will implement it soon in the next version of the EA.

Thank you again moncsicsi.
No guts, no glory
  • #52
  • Nov 9, 2014 10:11am Nov 9, 2014 10:11am
to avoid ranging time trading, that ea should place orders only on the first 2 hours after a session open (NY, London, Tokyo), then let them be trailed
  • #53
  • Nov 9, 2014 12:13pm Nov 9, 2014 12:13pm
Hello Abokwaik, your EA is very interesting.
Here is my point:
we know that the EA gives its best during trending phase; we know the market is 80% of the time in ranging phase; we know that also in a range phase we can have trends and their extension is related to ADR.
So if the EA would be able to detect the ADR on itself and for each day adjust settings on itself accordingly, at this point it should be able to give its best performance in any market situation.
What do you think about?
  • #54
  • Nov 9, 2014 12:27pm Nov 9, 2014 12:27pm
Quoting strongtrader
Hello Abokwaik, your EA is very interesting. Here is my point: we know that the EA gives its best during trending phase; we know the market is 80% of the time in ranging phase; we know that also in a range phase we can have trends and their extension is related to ADR. So if the EA would be able to detect the ADR on itself and for each day adjust settings on itself accordingly, at this point it should be able to give its best performance in any market situation. What do you think about?
Thanks strongtrader. The EA can detect ADR, but ADR wont tell you if you're in trending or ranging market. ADX indicator probably will. But I don't like lagging indicators as they"ll tell you only what happened in the past. I think after implementing the points in the wish list we'll have better performance.
No guts, no glory
  • #55
  • Nov 9, 2014 12:32pm Nov 9, 2014 12:32pm
No one commented on the Entry order. If you guys have a higher win rate entry method, it will improve performance considerably.

Any ideas ?
No guts, no glory
  • #56
  • Nov 9, 2014 12:49pm Nov 9, 2014 12:49pm
Quoting abokwaik
{quote} I thought it will do well on EUR/USD, strange. I am aware of the concept of "Sure Fire ForexHedging", and made an EA longtime ago. Its good if you have large account , because it actually a martingale system, so its very risky. As for the trailing stop, I already added it to the Wish List and will implement it soon in the next version of the EA. Thank you again moncsicsi.
It's up to you..

I think there is no Holy Grail, and I didn't want to tell that I have one.
I know the dangerous side of the SureFire, but my additionals maybe would help to survive a little.
No free lunch... of course a grid - martingale strategy has its danger, but I absoultely don't believe a "very good" or "very high probability of directional trading". You can take a lot of super indicator or trend line , etc. into the EA, but the success won't depend on them.

And never must trust in only one currency pair. I always use more (as much as I can) currency pairs on one account - because of diversification. It is no true that in this way we must have a huge amount of money on our account.
  • #57
  • Nov 9, 2014 1:09pm Nov 9, 2014 1:09pm
Quoting abokwaik
No one commented on the Entry order. If you guys have a higher win rate entry method, it will improve performance considerably. Any ideas ?
what about using a stochastic and maybe also a linear regression...i.e when price is on the upper side of regression and stoch crosses to the down go short and vice-versa
  • #58
  • Nov 10, 2014 4:04am Nov 10, 2014 4:04am
very interesting
Attached Image
  • #59
  • Edited 4:26am Nov 10, 2014 4:14am | Edited 4:26am
same EA, same settings, different market conditions
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  • #60
  • Nov 10, 2014 6:41am Nov 10, 2014 6:41am
Quoting arelbilger
same EA, same settings, different market conditions {image}
I think I need to improve the first entry method, for example take only long trades while PA is above 20 Day MA... etc.
No guts, no glory
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