Broker reverses $20K winning trades for alleged latency arbitrage

wonder if those voting NO are broker support or what!
just cant see how taking profit and leaving losing trades come as fair in anyone's thinking.

I have a lot of tick data from many brokers.

Here is Forex.com tick data compared with Dukascopy, USD/CHF on 15 Oct 2014 13:30 -> 14:00 UTC (when you took the most trades according to the posted statement and shrike analysis).

The Forex.com feed was clearly delayed between 13:38 and 13:50.

You can download the Forex.com (GAIN Capital) tick data from here: http://ratedata.gaincapital.com/2014/

http://fwd.pics/f/gain_bad_feed.png

since forex.com is a market maker, it shouldn't be compared to ECN feed...apples and oranges...

but I would really like to know, why that feed was delayed though, since forex.com as a market maker can quote technically any price that fully or not correspond to the ECN/real actual prices.
Wouldn't it be just interesting to look into the books there, and see how much they refitted form this delay...especially since I am sure they not reimbursing those who had SL hit, and almost sure some other profit trades also removed with same excuse.

Oanda/FXCM feeds are the pretty much the same as Dukascopy. So if you wish, you can consider that it is Oanda/FXCM in the above picture instead of Dukas

It doesn't work like that. Do this intentionally (as opposed to in error) or constantly and you'll quickly have your license revoked. Being a market maker is not a license to invent your own prices.

Good, If I had a live compare of the price with two brokers, I would not lose so much before I win. from the record, you can see I didn't even stop to take a look at what happens, because i was focusing on my strategy.
If their server have problem, they should make open announcement and let all know it.


My point is from your chart, I was in the middle of executing my strategy which is based on the indicators not by scalping or latency, no matter what their server feed, I will do like that except I have to increase size because my account is losing due to their latency not due to my strategy. I didn't try to make use of their latency to make profits. their late feed surely cause my loss (maybe win less) at the same time.

Suppose if you were me, my account is losing due to this latency. Should you just to stop trade and just hope forex.com will pay your loss? do you think they would like to do it to traders? Some of my profiting trades takes longer time than this latency on the picture. I don't rely on this so called latency to make profits.

simply:
If their server got problem, it is not done by me. my loss trades and profit trades are a series of my strategy. They can't take profits only and left all losses. I am not the one to be blamed and punished.

OK, here you go, fresh hot screenshots from my broker's market maker and ECN account /it isn't forex.com, but will be perfect to explain above/

One is ECN, other is market maker, rices are side by side to easy visualization.
EU and UJ pairs.
Guess what!
EU the market maker too slow to mimic the ECNs pullback...maybe a lagging server....
BUT WAIT!!
Look at UJ!
The same server not only not lagging, but ahead about 15 pips!!

Now think over what your broker is doing, and what you need to fight against to make your green pips!

You think in such situation claiming lagging server would be fair to do, or not.

As previous I said, I do believe they would use the server failure (possible deliberately) to trap traders. winning trade to be cancelled or go to the market. losing trades will be absorbed by this broker (simply they know the future price). they don't have any risk.
They must explain what happens to their server, and how much they earned during this period. Whether this happen often.
Is their server so smart to fail more frequently than other brokers.
If only a regulator intervene, we traders will know all what happens to a so called listed regulated company.

So you are saying that you knew that they were having latency problems.

Dude, don't take us all for fools. You were using an arbitrage EA. Stop denying this and inventing ridiculous arguments for your trades.

As for forex.com, I would never trade with them. They are a bucket shop, and you were not wise to try to arbitrage them.

And there are very, very few venues that accept latency arbitrageurs. Even LMAX will kick you out if you try to do this. And they are open about this (there is a video of their CEO on youtube explaining how they kicked off a few traders because of this).

Hi, Adal:
If you don't understand what happens, please don't scold others based on your ridiculous opinion. I guess you are one fool from the fraud company.
It should not be my own experience, once I was losing, I will use a larger size especially, it still meets my strategy. I am not a professional trader, I just trade for myself not for a company. I am responsible for my own trade not only winning trades also losing trades.


Please note my strategy is working for all platform not only forex.com alone. But only forex.com would close accounts. I swear I don't have an arbitrage EA, never. If any regulator would intervene, I can explain what my strategy is. My trades are quite frequently and based on technical analysis and all takes much longer time than so-called HFT. If you think I use arbitrage EA, then the so-called EA is so wretched. you should never see a series of losses and wins in the record of a arbitrary EA.

If by your ridiculous opinion, I have been trading for 5 years, the first account was with forex.com and until several days ago I was asked to leave forever from forex.com. If I use a latency arbitrage EA, you believe I can trade with them for over 4 years. If I use a so called EA, I should already be a millionaire. Right? But currently I still didn't quit my day job. I am profitable but still not that smart to use an arbitrage EA.


What you here is trying to convince others I was stealing forex.com money. So they don't have to pay my money back. please note no matter what happens, according to your chart, most of my losing and winning trades are during the latency period (you said delayed between 13:38 and 13:50), not only the profitable trades. I am robbed by them even this is their own server failure, my account lose over $8000 as they take all profits only.

I don't understand what's your purpose to scold me. You spend a lot of time to download data (not known to most traders) and compare with a lot of other brokers (duka, fxcm, oanda) just to scold me who is actually a victim?

If you are a retail trader, Why do you try to help the broker to cover a scam? I invite forex.com to have an explanation. but forex.com doesn't show up and just hide under their shell. are you one of them or an IB that is afraid of losing your job? you can fool some of us, but can't fool all of us.

Adal, I posted those charts especially for you.
One could argue latency, and arbitrage...one could argue that the broker is laying games with the price as it suits it.
Everyone can make a decision, there is enough there not only to look, but to see as well.

I voted yes to forex.com scamming you. If they took your winnings AND gave back your losses then i would be ok with that. But instead they robbed you.

I suggest you start a new thread with forex.com in the title again

Just a few quick thoughts.

- Who said that this business is easy? Latency is your problem... so if you fail to solve your problem then it is your own fault.

- I don't believe that they can prove that latency was indeed used. Although it is very probable past trades doesn't constitute a proof.

- What they did feels very wrong to me. In such manner they could intentionally evoke latency and take away their client profits.

You are right. A big broker company can't wait over 10 minutes to find their latency and do nothing unless they are either fools or want to fool others. This is the only income source for this company, they can't pay the loss. They could even hire employee simply seat there to watch the price difference from other brokers, one fx pair per one employee. not to mention monitoring by computers. You know what 1 pip mean to this company. If you trade only latency with high volume, it is very risky, they would stuck or suddenly tune their time, and then your trade will be losing. how could a retail trader make use of their failure often?

now Adal can be a proof if this case goes to the court. They can't forge data to cover their problem.

I accept that they cancel all the trades during the period with the condition that they make open announcement that their server got over 10 minutes latency.
I don't need to reply on stealing other's money to make profits. But see how easy a big company robs retail trader's fund.
Thanks midnight. The truth can be clearer upon discussions and different thoughts.

I HIGHLY doubt that. Forex brokers can quote whatever they want, regulators don't care at all. Especially since forex isn't a centralized exchange, there is no "official" price.
Arbitragers are here to somehow "regulate" the price beetween the different places, reason why forex.com behavior is definitely wrong.

Hi,

I do not trade with Forex.com.
I voted no because the delay on MT4 servers was due to a sort of denial of service attack. They have been arbitraged by Youben out due to a delay in dissemination of quotes and I'm pretty sure they have in their contracts the right to delete trades in those situations.
Also on most "official" exchanges a counterparty has the right to call for an error in submitting orders or quotes and ask to delete trades.

Also, if you note, youben has started to take very big positions compared to previous hours and days exactly during the delay.

P.

Come on, they could have widened the spreads if this was an exceptionnal circumstance.
Yes, registered liquidity providers/maket makers on exchanges have that kind of rights, with last look features and much more. All this is just NOT fair. When YOU as trader make a mistake, you just can't have the trade cancelled ! This happened to me recently: a big order on a bond purchase which had a pretty wide spread. The order had a delay of approx 15 sec., and I believed it didn't go through, and tried again. I ended with a double buy. No possibility to have one cancelled, even with the price not having moved. I had to close one on my side and pay the huge spread, which was quite costly.

ok, take it that the broker has the right to cancel trades.
but then do it in a fair manner, and for all and every trader.
about big positions and trading...

26612930 2014.10.15 13:22:35 buy 0.30 usdchfpro 0.94579 0.94000 0.94599 2014.10.15 13:38:35 0.93999 0.00 0.00 0.00 -185.11
26612935 2014.10.15 13:23:25 buy 0.30 usdjpypro 106.191 105.887 106.250 2014.10.15 13:29:52 105.865 0.00 0.00 0.00 -92.38
26612953 2014.10.15 13:25:02 buy 0.30 usdchfpro 0.94521 0.94000 0.94799 2014.10.15 13:38:35 0.93999 0.00 0.00 0.00 -166.60
26612974 2014.10.15 13:25:22 buy 0.30 usdjpypro 106.125 105.600 106.417 2014.10.15 13:38:25 105.604 0.00 0.00 0.00 -148.01
26612995 2014.10.15 13:26:35 buy 0.30 usdchfpro 0.94458 0.94161 0.94761 2014.10.15 13:34:06 0.94181 0.00 0.00 0.00 -88.23
26613020 2014.10.15 13:27:26 buy 0.90 usdchfpro 0.94410 0.93914 0.94714 2014.10.15 13:39:20 0.93950 0.00 0.00 0.00 -440.66
26613063 2014.10.15 13:28:02 buy 0.90 usdchfpro 0.94368 0.93864 0.94664 2014.10.15 13:39:21 0.93935 0.00 0.00 0.00 -414.86
26613077 2014.10.15 13:28:11 buy 0.30 usdjpypro 106.043 105.500 106.345 2014.10.15 13:39:33 105.525 0.00 0.00 0.00 -147.26
26613160 2014.10.15 13:29:57 buy 1.50 usdjpypro 105.910 105.431 106.231 2014.10.15 13:40:18 105.493 0.00 0.00 0.00 -592.93
26613200 2014.10.15 13:30:33 buy 0.90 usdjpypro 105.869 105.376 106.176 2014.10.15 13:40:18 105.498 0.00 0.00 0.00 -316.50
26613204 2014.10.15 13:30:36 buy 1.50 usdchfpro 0.94321 0.94180 0.94622 2014.10.15 13:34:07 0.94171 0.00 0.00 0.00 -238.93
26613265 2014.10.15 13:31:49 buy 1.50 usdchfpro 0.94331 0.94000 0.94626 2014.10.15 13:38:35 0.93999 0.00 0.00 0.00 -529.79
26613272 2014.10.15 13:32:06 buy 0.90 usdjpypro 105.886 105.366 106.166 2014.10.15 13:40:17 105.500 0.00 0.00 0.00 -329.29
26613371 2014.10.15 13:34:14 buy 6.00 usdchfpro 0.94156 0.93663 0.94463 2014.10.15 13:40:17 0.93879 0.00 0.00 0.00 -1 770.36
26613474 2014.10.15 13:35:58 buy 3.00 usdjpypro 105.761 105.262 106.062 2014.10.15 13:40:21 105.464 0.00 0.00 0.00 -844.84
26613536 2014.10.15 13:37:20 buy 3.00 usdchfpro 0.94138 0.93628 0.94428 2014.10.15 13:40:19 0.93881 0.00 0.00 0.00 -821.25
26613547 2014.10.15 13:37:29 buy 3.00 usdjpypro 105.697 105.188 105.988 2014.10.15 13:44:29 105.633 0.00 0.00 0.00 -181.76
26613647 2014.10.15 13:39:07 buy 9.00 usdchfpro 0.94038 0.93545 0.94345 2014.10.15 13:43:56 0.94013 0.00 0.00 0.00 -239.33

so, what about these trades.
it is pretty much looks like to me that some sort of martingale scaling...something what brokers love to see, of course, until you end up losing in the end.
here, this case, it wasn't happen in the end, thus needed that manual intervention...ie. delete the profit trades.
I believe most traders would know the basic concept of martingale...and that too, if not applied the simple 2x position, then one can recoup the loss lot faster one price hit a temporary pullback...that, while increase the risk, also increase the chance for a very quick exit, with less pips needed to BE.

26613719 2014.10.15 13:39:53 buy 18.00 usdchfpro 0.93853 0.93383 0.94183 2014.10.15 13:42:49 0.93930 0.00 0.00 0.00 1 475.57
26613778 2014.10.15 13:40:27 buy 24.00 usdchfpro 0.93821 0.93115 0.93915 2014.10.15 13:42:02 0.93812 0.00 0.00 0.00 -230.25
26613961 2014.10.15 13:41:50 buy 9.00 usdjpypro 105.341 104.872 105.672 2014.10.15 13:44:02 105.536 0.00 0.00 0.00 1 662.94
26613990 2014.10.15 13:42:31 buy 10.00 usdchfpro 0.93921 0.93421 0.94170 2014.10.15 13:46:22 0.94173 0.00 0.00 0.00 2 675.93
26614073 2014.10.15 13:43:33 buy 12.00 usdchfpro 0.94020 0.93537 0.94337 2014.10.15 13:44:27 0.94102 0.00 0.00 0.00 1 045.67
26614112 2014.10.15 13:44:09 buy 10.00 usdchfpro 0.94031 0.93521 0.94321 2014.10.15 13:45:47 0.94132 0.00 0.00 0.00 1 072.96
26614154 2014.10.15 13:44:59 buy 15.00 usdchfpro 0.94149 0.93648 0.94160 2014.10.15 13:45:30 0.94142 0.00 0.00 0.00 -111.53
26614230 2014.10.15 13:46:03 buy 10.00 usdchfpro 0.94130 0.93629 0.94170 2014.10.15 13:46:22 0.94173 0.00 0.00 0.00 456.61
26614249 2014.10.15 13:46:27 sell 10.00 usdchfpro 0.94169 0.94661 0.94100 2014.10.15 13:46:51 0.94096 0.00 0.00 0.00 775.80
26614263 2014.10.15 13:46:43 sell 10.00 usdchfpro 0.94166 0.94664 0.94100 2014.10.15 13:46:51 0.94096 0.00 0.00 0.00 743.92
26614279 2014.10.15 13:46:58 buy 10.00 usdchfpro 0.94094 0.93584 0.94190 2014.10.15 13:47:53 0.94192 0.00 0.00 0.00 1 040.43
26614284 2014.10.15 13:47:02 buy 20.00 usdchfpro 0.94062 0.93563 0.94190 2014.10.15 13:47:53 0.94192 0.00 0.00 0.00 2 760.32

look at the pairs.
no new pairs vs losing period.
look at the usual holding time. each big lots run shorter period, but nothing for seconds...
it is very much in line with a martingale plan, and its execution on a pullback.
even some trades seem to be closed out in pairs.

and finally, just show me one arbitrage trader who has set a 50 SL for the largest positions, just quite inline and similar with the smaller trades?
that, my friend, is the handiwork for someone fanatic to run his account to profit on those larger trades, or willing to risk a major blow...as those TPs aren't 50!

as I said, should he fail, then lose maybe in the range of 40-50k...you think the broker would ever consider refunding??
must be kidding!
the guy doesn't have the most sound strategy, granted, but he wasn't there to exploit anything illegal, I am pretty sure of.

if you go to the casino, and after losing some 5$ bets, you raise your bet to 20$ and win, the casino cant come to you, and say it is voided because this dealer should finish his shift 10min ago, so, you couldn't play.
forex.com took those trades, took the other side on a quick market where they failed to hedge before the rice moved enough and youben got out...now, that is their fault, and not the trader to blame for it.
If broker unhappy/unsecure about the trader's style, can ask the trader to change to ECN, or leave...but ONLY AFTER the balance paid out correctly.

Hi, Panurgo:

Your point is not worth to argue. It is my account. I would like to trade any strategy I like. especially my strategy is right changing trading size by pyramid. You say you are sure but you don't trade with forex.com. Then how do you sure? Did I ever do this kind of trade in the past? Did you read my past trades?

I dont understand why a broker will cancel trades selectively without open announcement that their server got wrong. How do you know forex.com have problem?

as a retail trader, if you need judge when to trade, when to stop other than technically but by broker possible failures, the market condition is too bad. you have to totally give up the possibility to choose the trading as a career.

I swear I had traded like that over a thousand times. But this is the first time I heard because you trade big size, you might trade illegally. Do they provide 200:1 leverage? How much I use the leverage? A trader trades in big size but not blow off. This is not his fault. It is his ability. Right?
I never heard a legal broker will delete traders' record due to their own problem during the last 5 years.

Actually I don't feel what so called price latency is illegal. If you broker provide any price, we traders have to accept. vice era. You never expect broker will pay you back due to their server fail, right?

what here we are discussing whether it is my strategy. I tell you it is my strategy as I said many times. But it seems you don't understand why there are so many strategies in the world.

We regret any misunderstanding caused by the recent termination of Mr Yun’s trading account. A review of this matter has confirmed that FOREX.com acted fairly and judiciously in accordance with our Customer Agreement.

When trade adjustments are carried out, they are made based on our audited results utilizing price comparisons of third-party sources, and applied to all trades. Contrary to what has been suggested, trade adjustments are not limited to profitable trades. To further ensure a fair and balanced trade review, we utilize the raw bank rate data without applying our own spread which, in Mr Yun’s case, resulted in a reduction in the total adjustment applied to the account.

Providing our clients with superior trade execution and the highest level of transparency is of utmost importance at FOREX.com. We have reached out to Mr Yun and provided him with a full summary of the activity on his account and welcome the opportunity to privately address any additional concerns he may have. However, with respect to customer privacy, we cannot provide any further details or comments on this matter publicly.

FOREX.com