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Why so many indicators, oscillators, and tools on charts

  • #101
  • Edited 8:16pm Oct 18, 2014 7:49pm | Edited 8:16pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} But what is the difference between a properly adjusted artificial intelligence and a human brain ? Well if the indicator is "smart" ,then nothing, it has the same pattern recognition function than the human brain has. +It's much faster, and it can process more data than a conscious brain can (the unconscious brain is really hard to master, so i would not trust it) +It removes totally the emotional side. Win - win situation, i would choose the artificial method. '

A. Computers - I think a retail trader will always lose because the pro's have bigger and better computers.
and programs that look for retail programs

B. I think any tool(s) (real tool) can give the trader an advantage the edge which is what we need.
1. the simpler the tool(s) the better ie. SMAs are better then EMAs -- CCI is better the MacD
2. one or two tools all you need - three at the most
3. the good things about a tool(s) is it does help set up rules to take out the emotions from trades
4. But the trader must understand the tools and how to use it(s)
5 do not use a tool(s) to trade - rather to set up - The reason is they lag so a trigger it will kill you.
- only enter a trade on price action
- but use tool(s) for ie, trend or strength or momentum or Divergence or over bough/over sold that is it
6. tools like Fibbs or floor PP or any PP other then price swings are not real.
  • #102
  • Oct 18, 2014 7:58pm Oct 18, 2014 7:58pm
is it too many indicator?
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  • #103
  • Oct 18, 2014 7:59pm Oct 18, 2014 7:59pm
Quoting faststare08
is it too many indicator? {image}
are you asking what I think or you are being funny
  • #104
  • Oct 18, 2014 8:02pm Oct 18, 2014 8:02pm
Quoting TEB63
{quote} are you asking what I think or you are being funny
yes i am. i just want to know if i will trim down my indicator again.
  • #105
  • Edited 8:17pm Oct 18, 2014 8:03pm | Edited 8:17pm
Quoting faststare08
{quote} yes i am. i just want to know if i will trim down my indicator again.

Well my questions to you are
1. what do they all tell you?
2. what do they tell you different from each other?
  • #106
  • Oct 18, 2014 8:09pm Oct 18, 2014 8:09pm
Quoting TEB63
{quote} Well my questions to you is 1. what do they all tell you? 2. what do they tell you different from each other?
thanks teb63. i got it now.
  • #107
  • Oct 18, 2014 8:49pm Oct 18, 2014 8:49pm
Quoting faststare08
{quote} thanks teb63. i got it now.

ok great
  • #108
  • Oct 19, 2014 1:48am Oct 19, 2014 1:48am
Quoting faststare08
is it too many indicator? {image}

Egads where is the price??? I am down to two 240MA on the screen and a simple cross system with arrow. Very effective and I get to see price action with it.
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  • #109
  • Oct 19, 2014 5:53am Oct 19, 2014 5:53am
Quoting nanningbob
{quote} Egads where is the price??? I am down to two 240MA on the screen and a simple cross system with arrow. Very effective and I get to see price action with it. {image}

looks good
I like it
you say you are down to two 240 MA
where is the second one?
  • #110
  • Oct 19, 2014 8:00am Oct 19, 2014 8:00am
Indicators are good for analyze, but not for the trade.
It just helps me for quick view the trend, and best TF is weekly data or monthly, minimum daily data. When i trade, i trade the price, and i use 2 indicators: 1) the Chart, 2) my experience, nothing else. When i buy, i buy at fair value or undervalue, and sell at fair value or overvalue.
Keep your mind simple, guys. If you ask the little kid with naked chart "is that up or down", he would tell you "oh, this is up" or "oh, this is down", "why" you asked, " because this from here to here...." little kid replied
BullShit BearShit
  • #111
  • Oct 19, 2014 9:17am Oct 19, 2014 9:17am
Quoting TEB63
{quote} looks good I like it you say you are down to two 240 MA where is the second one?
You probably cant seem them but I have the xxx.000 lines marked every 100 pips. Those are my TP and entrance areas when I can get them. Here I changed the back ground color. I dont want the lines to interfere with my view of price action.
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  • #112
  • Oct 19, 2014 9:32am Oct 19, 2014 9:32am
I dont think I can say something that was not said already but would like to underline that is most important for trader to understand indicators s/he use....
The Market pays you to be disciplined
  • #113
  • Oct 19, 2014 10:51am Oct 19, 2014 10:51am
Quoting etrade360
Indicators are good for analyze, but not for the trade. It just helps me for quick view the trend, and best TF is weekly data or monthly, minimum daily data. When i trade, i trade the price, and i use 2 indicators: 1) the Chart, 2) my experience, nothing else. When i buy, i buy at fair value or undervalue, and sell at fair value or overvalue. Keep your mind simple, guys. If you ask the little kid with naked chart "is that up or down", he would tell you "oh, this is up" or "oh, this is down", "why" you asked, " because this from here to here...."...

LOL
well this is a great thoughts - if it were quite that easy it would be great
  • #114
  • Oct 19, 2014 11:01am Oct 19, 2014 11:01am
Quoting nanningbob
{quote} You probably cant seem them but I have the xxx.000 lines marked every 100 pips. Those are my TP and entrance areas when I can get them. Here I changed the back ground color. I dont want the lines to interfere with my view of price action. {image}
interest I use to do something like this (still do in fact )
I use a 1 2 3 break to enter

cheers
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  • #115
  • Oct 19, 2014 11:03am Oct 19, 2014 11:03am
an amateur chef can use expensive ingredients to make a meal and a professional chef could make a better meal with cheap ingredients.

it's up to the person's ability and brain to make most of the indicators.
  • #116
  • Oct 19, 2014 11:04am Oct 19, 2014 11:04am
Quoting TEB63
{quote} A. Computers - I think a retail trader will always lose because the pro's have bigger and better computers. and programs that look for retail programs B. I think any tool(s) (real tool) can give the trader an advantage the edge which is what we need. 1. the simpler the tool(s) the better ie. SMAs are better then EMAs -- CCI is better the MacD 2. one or two tools all you need - three at the most 3. the good things about a tool(s) is it does help set up rules to take out the emotions from trades 4. But the trader must understand the tools...
A) That is true, but there is always the element of suprise. Scientists, PHD's at hedgefunds are thinking very linearly, they can't think out of the box, they think how they are thought at university (which is a very dull and rigit way to educate anybody, like we see in any education system), so they are not innovative.
Yes they have bigger PC's and bigger brains, but if not used correctly it's not worth a dime

B) I don't think that, most retail indicators are rigid and static, they can't adapt to the changing market, even if you change the parameters periodically, its still too rigid, so you need filter over filter to confirm the signals. Instead using only 1 indicator which is already filtered and give good signals with good edge, you need many to confirm eachother, and overall you still have to pick the good ones from the bad ones.
And then you get emotional and etc.. The point is that most indicators were designed in the 70-80's for a totally different market structure so they dont really work that good anymore, and not even designed by people with a tiny math background, just a bunch of wannabees inventing snake oil type traders, exception for the guys who do have some math backround.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #117
  • Oct 19, 2014 11:19am Oct 19, 2014 11:19am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} A) That is true, but there is always the element of suprise. Scientists, PHD's at hedgefunds are thinking very linearly, they can't think out of the box, they think how they are thought at university (which is a very dull and rigit way to educate anybody, like we see in any education system), so they are not innovative. Yes they have bigger PC's and bigger brains, but if not used correctly it's not worth a dime B) I don't think that, most retail indicators are rigid and static, they can't adapt to the changing market, even if you change...



Well the issue with what you have said is.
The market is the market - trust me you will not surprise the pros.
there are very clear rules to trading


There is only one way to play Ludwig van Beethoven
and believe me the rules in Forex are more clear
lol
  • #118
  • Oct 19, 2014 11:33am Oct 19, 2014 11:33am
Quoting TEB63
{quote} Well the issue with what you have said is. The market is the market - trust me you will not surprise the pros. there are very clear rules to trading There is only one way to play Ludwig van Beethoven and believe me the rules in Forex are more clear lol
Did Lehman Bro's had scientist with an IQ of 500 who just could not observe the fact that they were overleveraged?

There are many ways to trade, some of them make more profit , some of them less. Most hedgefunds cannot unload all the bullets in the market because they have a strict policy of low drawdown, otherwise the investors will get upset.

A retail trader doesn't have any risk obligation to anyone but himself, he can easily make more money with a 4-5% risk target instead of 0.1 or 0.2 that hedgefunds use. So while a HF makes pity 10-30%/ year, a retail trader could easily make 1000-3000%, I mean just look at Dan Zanger, he wasnt overleveraged or anything, yet made himself badass rich.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #119
  • Oct 19, 2014 11:45am Oct 19, 2014 11:45am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} Did Lehman Bro's had scientist with an IQ of 500 who just could not observe the fact that they were overleveraged? There are many ways to trade, some of them make more profit , some of them less. Most hedge funds cannot unload all the bullets in the market because they have a strict policy of low drawdown, otherwise the investors will get upset. A retail trader doesn't have any risk obligation to anyone but himself, he can easily make more money with a 4-5% risk target instead of 0.1 or 0.2 that hedgefunds use. So while a HF makes pity 10-30%/...


lol .... do you really think Lehman Bro's was a mistake? really?
- The super rick have got richer faster since that "mistake" then in all of mankind's history?
- thinks that make you go HUUUM !!!!!!!

yes Pro have issues for sure in turning there stocks in to profits
and if you can play on that you will make money for sure.
but its not a surprise its a found weakness in the games rules
  • #120
  • Edited 2:06pm Oct 19, 2014 1:53pm | Edited 2:06pm
Quoting TEB63
{quote} lol .... do you really think Lehman Bro's was a mistake? really? - The super rick have got richer faster since that "mistake" then in all of mankind's history? - thinks that make you go HUUUM !!!!!!! yes Pro have issues for sure in turning there stocks in to profits and if you can play on that you will make money for sure. but its not a surprise its a found weakness in the games rules

Yep it was a mistake, i`ve seen many conspiracy videos, and i dont see how Fuld the CEO of Lehman would be in a better position now, than as a CEO of Lehman. His salary was about 22 million $ , i`m sure it's wealth grow really good. And by the bankruptcy he lost like 50 million in stocks, plus a few other millions in his real estates. So the crisis really cut his wallet, he lost his job and became infamous, was it worth it?. And most of the other big CEO's on wallstreet also lost half of their net worth.

Why would they be so stupid to lose half of their wealth? Most of them lost money.

The only ones who gained money are those who were bailed out and sold his stocks early from insider information or other sources, but most of them actually lost money.
So it was a really big mistake to make the crisis, if it was intentionally made or not, it was a sucking for the 95% of the population including the wealthy guys too.
I`ve read articles where millionaires bought their estate by millions of dollars and sold them for a few ten thousands, just to get rid of it. It was bad for everyone not just for poor people.

If the scientists (at those firms the PHD's designing the CDO's) didn't saw it, or they were so bold and didn't foresee the consequences then they are not so intelligent after all.

I tell you, the PHD rank is a bit overrated, there can be idiots even amongst nobel prize winners, true intelligence doesn't come from a socially admired rank, but from the ability to innovate and see out of the box.

So by these standards, guys like Steve Jobs who was a college dropout, was way more intelligent than an average nobel prize winner, as his innovative capacity was more impressive than an average invention or discovery. You see, these social ranks, PHD or whatnot is too overrated.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
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