What if someone finds the Holy Grail? | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

The HOLY GRAIL 130 replies

Developing the "Holy Grail" Trading System 4 replies

Holy grail trading system wanted, or nearest thing to it! 43 replies

6 Steps To Finding Your Personal Holy Grail 6 replies

The Search for the Holy Grail 1 reply

Attachments: What if someone finds the Holy Grail?
Exit Attachments

What if someone finds the Holy Grail?

  • #1
  • First Post: Aug 31, 2014 1:26pm Aug 31, 2014 1:26pm
In theory.. Holy Grail is a Strat in which you cant loose.. but what if someone finds it? i mean it dosen´t need to be 100%
It could be something like 95% 1:3 risk reward ratio.. would make you filthy rich in a month.. or couple.. depending how often this "Holy grail" is hit..

My question is.. how long before someone finds out about your HG-Would the broker i.e see your 2,000usd to 2mil usd in 2-3months.. and steal your strategy?
Can the broker look in to your charts and trades?.. or would the banks figure it out somehow?... or could one just make silly amount of money, retire and still stay anonymous ?

This is no discussion "if you think there is a Holy grail" the topic is if someone would find it..



I would stop at around 20milion euro.. and i would change brokers.. i.e 2k > 100k, 100k>1mil > 1mil >10mil 10mil>20.. then i would withdraw.. and retire
Hopefully noone would notice. and i can live rich and anonymously.
Probably the worlds best currency trader.
  • #2
  • Aug 31, 2014 1:47pm Aug 31, 2014 1:47pm
Yes the Brokers can se everything, they know your entrys ,where you have your stops, just about everything,
if they saw a strategy that allways won, if they had any brains they would start to copy your trades, and would want you to stay with them as long as possible,
maybe they even would like to hire you, these are the good brokers, the shady brokers would ban you from trading at all, they would close your account and you'd be lucky get the cash back, but even if you had a holy grail system it would take longer than you think to get discusting rich, if you traded 10 mil in on trade, you would move the market to much it would be counter productive ,so you probably need to split it up in smaller chunks, then comes the question, can you get filled 10 mil before the market collapses, maybe you can only be filled on 300k in your area of entry before it starts to turn your direction, what then? according to your holy grail strategy? would you continue or would it be too late? so the more money you make the harder it would be to make money, thats irony.
also conside this, you want to get sell Euro and get filled on 10mil, there have to be buyers, if you are selling someone is buying it, would they do that at your area of entry? maybe not, if a strategy works with small money there is no guarantie it would work with big money because the game rules changing. sure if you would have a holy grail you would ofcourse do very well and get rich over time, but I wouldn't bother because there is no holy grail
Bulls are stupid Animals!especially when Im short!
  • #3
  • Aug 31, 2014 2:42pm Aug 31, 2014 2:42pm
Quoting roughtrader
Yes the Brokers can se everything, they know your entrys ,where you have your stops, just about everything, if they saw a strategy that allways won, if they had any brains they would start to copy your trades, and would want you to stay with them as long as possible, maybe they even would like to hire you, these are the good brokers, the shady brokers would ban you from trading at all, they would close your account and you'd be lucky get the cash back, but even if you had a holy grail system it would take longer than you think to get discusting...
Great reply man! do you mean 10Mil as in 100lots? i.ex 100,000euro at 100leverage would be 10mil.. and you think that moves the market by more than lets say 10pips?
Probably the worlds best currency trader.
  • #4
  • Aug 31, 2014 3:35pm Aug 31, 2014 3:35pm
"the market hunts large orders"
and if remember correctly it was Larry Levin who said this and he works in the pits on Wall street so should know
but have also heard if you keep trades below 10lots (9lots) no-one will notice much

there is someone who found the Grail and is stopping as much trading after only 3 yrs as the market has likely worked out the strategy, and even though hes front running and HFT
then again he's made over 300million (can't remember the exact amount)
so set for life anyway

found a link
http://www.businessinsider.com/virtu...ing-day-2014-3
  • #5
  • Aug 31, 2014 3:37pm Aug 31, 2014 3:37pm
Quoting Wheathermakr
{quote} Great reply man! do you mean 10Mil as in 100lots? i.ex 100,000euro at 100leverage would be 10mil.. and you think that moves the market by more than lets say 10pips?
no I don't think 100 lots would be much noticable what I mean was, lets say you have a 10 billion account and you did trade allin 1 trade,
ofcourse you wouldn't do that but, just an example but if you did, you would move the market so much that you would be heavily in loss,
because lets say you wanted to sell EURUSD 10 billion worth, there isn't like 10 billion buyers sit there and wait for you, you will not be filled on 100% or your position, it will get filled in chunks, and every chunk got filled the market would, example, drop, drop , drop, drop, and your first filled chunk is now getting further and further away, more and more loss, I really couldn't say how much you would move the market, but it would certanly move, if you look at the charts this is actually happening, you can se those places, thats what people call supply or demand levels, you can actually see the chunks getting filled, every chunk is on candle, then you know, the big money is playing., then the question is, where do they put their stops and what is their maximum pain level? if they where to be stopped out, you can imagine that price would jump
Bulls are stupid Animals!especially when Im short!
  • #6
  • Aug 31, 2014 7:36pm Aug 31, 2014 7:36pm
Quoting Carlsberg
"the market hunts large orders" and if remember correctly it was Larry Levin who said this and he works in the pits on Wall street so should know but have also heard if you keep trades below 10lots (9lots) no-one will notice much there is someone who found the Grail and is stopping as much trading after only 3 yrs as the market has likely worked out the strategy, and even though hes front running and HFT then again he's made over 300million (can't remember the exact amount) so set for life anyway found a link http://www.businessinsider.com/virtu...ing-day-2014-3...
HFT supercomputing can hardly be considered a holy grail. the algorithms aren't particularly revolutionary, it just focuses on minimizing execution time
  • #7
  • Aug 31, 2014 8:28pm Aug 31, 2014 8:28pm
Really... ??

Zero hedge and others have called it Holy Grail - so who are we to argue?

As filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on March 10, 2014
For the years ended December 31, 2013 and 2012, our total revenues were approximately $664.5 million and $615.6 million, respectively, our trading income, net, was approximately $623.7 million and $581.5 million, respectively, our Adjusted Net Trading Income was approximately $414.5 million and $366.3 million, respectively, our net income was approximately $182.2 million and $87.6 million, respectively, and our Adjusted Net Income was approximately $215.4 million and $188.3 million, respectively. For the year ended December 31, 2013, we earned approximately 27% of our Adjusted Net Trading Income from Americas equities, 11% from EMEA equities, 11% from APAC equities, 23% from global commodities, 20% from global currencies and 9% from options, fixed income and other securities. For a reconciliation of Adjusted Net Trading Income to trading income, net, and Adjusted Net Income to net income, see " — Summary Historical and Pro Forma Consolidated Financial and Other Data." Since our inception, we have sought to broadly diversify our market making across securities, asset classes and geographies, and as a result, for the year ended December 31, 2013, we achieved a diverse mix of Adjusted Net Trading Income results, with no one geography or asset class constituting more than 30% of our total Adjusted Net Trading Income.

The chart below illustrates our daily Adjusted Net Trading Income from January 1, 2009 through December 31, 2013. As a result of our real-time risk management strategy and technology, we had only one losing trading day during the period depicted, a total of 1,238 trading days.

the CEO just bought the Florida panthers
http://www.businessinsider.com/wall-...anthers-2013-9

and lives in a very large house - one could say its a Holy Grail House (although some might not)
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-styl...icle-1.1551818
  • #8
  • Sep 1, 2014 10:09pm Sep 1, 2014 10:09pm
Is he a scalper ?

http://www.endowmentwm.com/what-is-h...rtu-financial/
  • #9
  • Sep 5, 2014 6:34am Sep 5, 2014 6:34am
Quoting Carlsberg
"the market hunts large orders" and if remember correctly it was Larry Levin who said this and he works in the pits on Wall street so should know but have also heard if you keep trades below 10lots (9lots) no-one will notice much there is someone who found the Grail and is stopping as much trading after only 3 yrs as the market has likely worked out the strategy, and even though hes front running and HFT then again he's made over 300million (can't remember the exact amount) so set for life anyway found a link http://www.businessinsider.com/virtu...ing-day-2014-3...
Dude you can enter 500 lots at market price and not even cause the price to move 1 pip during roll over.
There is ALWAYS 1,000+ lots of orders within 1 pip on either side. Probably much more than that.
Happiness Only Real When Shared
  • #10
  • Sep 16, 2014 11:19pm Sep 16, 2014 11:19pm
Holy Grail = religion = perfection = never happened = never will happen = fantasy. There is no holy grail. It's a silly idea that has and will never exist. It is made up by non-thinking lazy people.

I wish there was a holy grail but if you really think about it long enough and hard enough then it is impossible.

Instead you should look at how you can work to make a profitable career out of the charts, and don't think otherwise. There is a lot of info on this site about this.

Smiler
Keep It Simple Stupid
  • #11
  • Sep 17, 2014 1:02am Sep 17, 2014 1:02am
hi Weathermakr,

Keep your two feeds to the ground!! Holy Grail! Your holy grail is in your trading plan, consisting of a trading strategy, your risk management and your money management. That will be your holy grail. Trading accordingly will bring you profit!!
My to copycat way to generate additional passive income!
  • #12
  • Sep 17, 2014 4:35am Sep 17, 2014 4:35am
If I found the holy grail, first I would create a Trade Explorer. I would then open a new thread in Forex Factory, with Trade Explorer attached, dedicated to 'alternative' trading - astrology, psychic readings, tea leaf readings, tarot cards etc.. Every time I opened a new trade I would make up some pseudoscientific reason for the trade -- Mercury aligns with Neptune so I short the euro etc. Skeptics could come in and argue with me all they like, but i would have proven results to back me up.
si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
  • #13
  • Sep 17, 2014 4:52am Sep 17, 2014 4:52am
[quote=numbnuts;7743787]If I found the holy grail, first I would create a Trade Explorer. I would then open a new thread in Forex Factory, with Trade Explorer attached, dedicated to 'alternative' trading - astrology, psychic readings, tea leaf readings, tarot cards etc.. Every time I opened a new trade I would make up some pseudoscientific reason for the trade -- Mercury aligns with Neptune so I short the euro etc. Skeptics could come in and argue with me all they like, but i would have proven results to back me up.
  • #14
  • Sep 18, 2014 5:04am Sep 18, 2014 5:04am
Well, If I found a HG that works great for me, would keep it to myself for as long as possible, then sell it on the open market. The question though would be the price..and let's face it, as traders we are all greedy..
  • #15
  • Sep 19, 2014 3:00am Sep 19, 2014 3:00am
exactly, I don't think people would share much their successful strategies, its human nature to keep it to him self, and usually what is sold out there is not that good coz makes you wonder "why sell it if it makes you money?" mostprobably its a risky strategy that generates more profit sold than traded with
  • #16
  • Sep 19, 2014 3:14am Sep 19, 2014 3:14am
Quoting numbnuts
If I found the holy grail, first I would create a Trade Explorer. I would then open a new thread in Forex Factory, with Trade Explorer attached, dedicated to 'alternative' trading - astrology, psychic readings, tea leaf readings, tarot cards etc.. Every time I opened a new trade I would make up some pseudoscientific reason for the trade -- Mercury aligns with Neptune so I short the euro etc. Skeptics could come in and argue with me all they like, but i would have proven results to back me up.
  • #17
  • Sep 19, 2014 3:18am Sep 19, 2014 3:18am
hahaha best idea
  • #18
  • Sep 19, 2014 4:33am Sep 19, 2014 4:33am
I friend of mine trades a hedge fund and trades 1,000 to 4,200 lots on a currency pair, and no he doesn't move the market. I have read it takes upwards of 10,000 lots to move EURUSD one pip.

FYI he trades with an institutional broker and has incredible small spreads. $1 mil min to open an account. It's pretty radical when trading 1,000+ lots. I'm trading 30-50 lots right now in my interactive brokers account, and it has no effect on the market. I don't intend on going any higher anytime soon though lol
  • #19
  • Sep 19, 2014 11:32am Sep 19, 2014 11:32am
Quoting jiggz
exactly, I don't think people would share much their successful strategies, its human nature to keep it to him self, and usually what is sold out there is not that good coz makes you wonder "why sell it if it makes you money?" mostprobably its a risky strategy that generates more profit sold than traded with
LOL, I know..all that one needs is to use the search tab for HG and see how many threads pop up, most requesting for one, a few claiming they have found the HG..bottom line, no one would sell it and if anyone is planning to sell it it would mainly be because the trader has no more use for it..
  • #20
  • Sep 22, 2014 6:17pm Sep 22, 2014 6:17pm
There is no such thing as a Holy Grail in a Gambling Based Business.

To make money you need to work in a real job, generating value or producing something real, there are no shortcuts to make money out of thin air.

And remember that 99.6% of people lose money in FOREX. What makes you think you will be part of the 0.4%?
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
0 traders viewing now