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Systematic observations I wish I made when I was a rookie

  • #41
  • Aug 22, 2014 12:04pm Aug 22, 2014 12:04pm
Exercise: Where you would have wanted to trade
OK so for this excercise bring up a chart of what it is you want to trade and of that timeframe you want to trade. Then you are going to put some kind of markers for where you would have WANTED to sell or buy in the OPTIMUM and dont worry so much about the exits now. Pretty much nobody trades THAT well of course, but just try it out. So youre chart should look something like this and im using yesterdays E/U M5 chart. Im using red dots for sells and blue dots for buys.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Optimum trading.jpg Size: 97 KB


So what is the point of this? Well, given enough pattern recognition skill, aproaching this is not impossible. It takes quite a long time and a lot of effort, but getting CLOSER to it is what all traders is trying to do. One of the best ways to do that is to trade on a demo account, that way you can ONLY GAIN, you gain skill and skill is what matters.

You can try counting the candles. On average how long are the moves on your chart? 3 candles, 7 candles? 9 candles?

The next step is to trade while having this chart in mind. Use the TPs i was talking about earlier.

EVERY euro i gain is mostly because of pattern recognition skill. Indies, MAs and what not dont mean much at all compared to this. To my knowledge, pattern recognition skill is mostly what makes a trader.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #42
  • Aug 22, 2014 12:57pm Aug 22, 2014 12:57pm
I think the largest problem for most traders is that every book written and most of the systems out there get very vague when it comes to exits for your trades. Most systems are all about the entry. Almost every book written focuses on entry. Clearly the most important part of trading is to make money. If your profit ratio is in the neighborhood of 2 to 1, you can be right 50% of the time and still make money. Example risk 10 look for a profit of 20. The mental part of that equation is people look at the woulda, shoulda and the coulda and immediately wish they had done something better. That's the game most traders lose at. Woulda, Shoulda and Coulda.

If someone threw a $100 dollar bill on the floor with 10 guys standing around and he announced may the best man win. It would be one hell of a scrum. Maybe if traders looked at it in a colder fashion. I want my 2 to 1 and my system has a better than 50% win ratio and life is good. After that just move on to your favorite hobby and enjoy life.
  • #43
  • Aug 22, 2014 1:15pm Aug 22, 2014 1:15pm
Quoting Sossos
I think the largest problem for most traders is that every book written and most of the systems out there get very vague when it comes to exits for your trades. Most systems are all about the entry. Almost every book written focuses on entry. Clearly the most important part of trading is to make money. If your profit ratio is in the neighborhood of 2 to 1, you can be right 50% of the time and still make money. Example risk 10 look for a profit of 20. The mental part of that equation is people look at the woulda, shoulda and the coulda and immediately...
Exits are also a matter of pattern recognition mostly, thats what i have learned.

If someone threw a hundred dollar bill at the floor with 9 other people and said "Let the best man win", i would walk away and go home to trade instead.
If, for some reason my life depended on it, i would step back and wait until only one was left and then do my thing. I would have too hard a time to calculate how to attack otherwise. If there is only one person, that is no problem, just aim for the neck and solar plexus.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #44
  • Aug 22, 2014 1:26pm Aug 22, 2014 1:26pm
True enough, but what of the rest of the world and what are they going to do. Are you the majority or the minority. Personally I would step back and enjoy the show. I appreciate what your doing here and will continue to read your thoughts

Just throwing in my 2 cents worth. I arrived at a simple question, What is MY trade? not yours or anybody elses, mine. And does it meet my needs. Trading isn't about taking every trade possible, just your trade and I think thats where your headed, but carry on
  • #45
  • Aug 22, 2014 1:45pm Aug 22, 2014 1:45pm
Quoting Sossos
True enough, but what of the rest of the world and what are they going to do. Are you the majority or the minority. Personally I would step back and enjoy the show. I appreciate what your doing here and will continue to read your thoughts Just throwing in my 2 cents worth. I arrived at a simple question, What is MY trade? not yours or anybody elses, mine. And does it meet my needs. Trading isn't about taking every trade possible, just your trade and I think thats where your headed, but carry on
OK.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #46
  • Aug 22, 2014 1:45pm Aug 22, 2014 1:45pm
Quoting yaed
7. Get rid of your fear of money. If you have fear of money you wont ever have much of it.
This is the most important thing a new trader can learn in my opinion.

There are ways to achieve this...

One is to lose so much money into the markets that it no longer matters to you if you lose more.

One is to make so much money in the market that it no longer matters to you if you make more.

One is to realize that once you put your money into the market it is no longer yours anyway...

there are many more....
  • #47
  • Aug 22, 2014 2:06pm Aug 22, 2014 2:06pm
Quoting Pharm0r
{quote} This is the most important thing a new trader can learn in my opinion.


I personally like this statement of yaed:


Quoting yaed
{quote} I have no ego. I left it in 2009. I am done here in that regard. I dont need to say anything more. I wont oppose any other persons ideas about me, about the world or about how to trade. Those are futile things to oppose.


For most traders one's ego gets in the way.

Most people here at FF think they are geniuses! But they are only genius in writing of threads, etc.
  • #48
  • Aug 22, 2014 3:22pm Aug 22, 2014 3:22pm
Quoting mvp77
{quote} I personally like this statement of yaed: {quote} For most traders one's ego gets in the way. Most people here at FF think they are geniuses! But they are only genius in writing of threads, etc.
I am glad you understand, makes me feel less alone.

I have noticed people write "The marked moved against me." that kind of thing. They take it personally, as if the market is doing something TO THEM personally. Or somebody writing "This is bullshit because x", they get angry AT THE MARKET. To me that is a dangerous mixup. The market dont know ANYTHING about their little 0.1 lot orders or what ever. It is simply NOT personal.

I view price as an equation playing out. Nobody exactly know where its going, and price itself do not care, for its not sentient. Thinking that the market is doing something to someone personally is the wrong attitude. I cant use feelings like anger, jealousy or hope for it does not apply to price directly. Of course the world market is AFFECTED by peoples feelings, but thats another thing completely.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #49
  • Aug 22, 2014 3:37pm Aug 22, 2014 3:37pm
Quoting Pharm0r
{quote} One is to realize that once you put your money into the market it is no longer yours anyway...
Thats the one im using. My account is just a function in the equation i call "money manegement". That money is not money any more its just numbers in the bottom of my screen. It dont ALWAYS work to think like that, but most of the time.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #50
  • Aug 22, 2014 3:38pm Aug 22, 2014 3:38pm
Quoting yaed
{quote} I am glad you understand, makes me feel less alone. I have noticed people write "The marked moved against me." that kind of thing. They take it personally, as if the market is doing something TO THEM personally. Or somebody writing "This is bullshit because x", they get angry AT THE MARKET. To me that is a dangerous mixup. The market dont know ANYTHING about their little 0.1 lot orders or what ever. It is simply NOT personal. I view price as an equation playing out. Nobody exactly know where its going, and price itself do not care, for its...
These are exactly the reasons why I have developed my one strategy.

For example: I don't use sl. I trail the tp down.
So i can catch the retrace and not the bottom of a bad trade.

Only a small example!
  • #51
  • Aug 22, 2014 3:41pm Aug 22, 2014 3:41pm
Quoting mvp77
{quote} These are exactly the reasons why I have developed my one strategy. For example: I don't use sl. I trail the tp down. So i can catch the retrace and not the bottom of a bad trade. Only a small example!
Down erh... ? I dont think i follow you here... what is "down"? And what if you come into a loss how do you trail a TP if its in a loss, then its a SL or... ?
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #52
  • Edited 4:04pm Aug 22, 2014 3:43pm | Edited 4:04pm
Attached Image


52? Errh... What? Who is it that wants to know about what?
Nothing important happening here, we are just communicating, move along all you automatic data mining scripts. Have a nice... eeerh digital existence in some server where ever you come from. Kiss kiss good bye! I bet you have better things to do.

Why dont you just put a person here instead and ASK about something, its much more polite you know. That way you get to actually know what it is you want to know.

Ah well, it dont matter. Sh1theads will be sh1theads. They dont know how to wear a good hat anyway.

Well ladies and gentlemen, seems we have a BIG audience here tonight! So what kind of entertainment can i cook up?

Wow and there is even more!

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Who are those other 67.jpg Size: 50 KB


Well now i just thought of something:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 201105242132.jpg Size: 489 KB


And i think i have a couple of nice sunsets also, i will choose one:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 201105082045.jpg Size: 312 KB
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #53
  • Aug 22, 2014 3:56pm Aug 22, 2014 3:56pm
Quoting yaed
{quote} Down erh... ? I dont think i follow you here... what is "down"? And what if you come into a loss how do you trail a TP if its in a loss, then its a SL or... ?
Yes , maybe negative takeprofit.

But not the bottom of the wave ! Both are negative, but your tp is better as your sl in this case !
  • #54
  • Aug 22, 2014 4:01pm Aug 22, 2014 4:01pm
Quoting mvp77
{quote} Yes , maybe negative takeprofit. But not the bottom of the wave ! Both are negative, but your tp is better as your sl in this case !
Oh i think i understand then.

Now that the MT4 has been updated, i really like the x that closes the positions on just one click.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #55
  • Aug 22, 2014 4:18pm Aug 22, 2014 4:18pm
Quoting yaed
{quote} Oh i think i understand then.
If you can't sleep....


Here's what to play!


Inserted Code
extern double trailingstart            =0;        
extern double trailingprofit           =0;
......
int start()
{
........
 
if(trailingprofit>0)movetrailingprofit(trailingstart,trailingprofit);
 
 
.......
 
 
 
void movetrailingprofit(double trailingstart,double trailingprofit)
{
   RefreshRates();
   for(int i=0;i<OrdersTotal();i++){
      if(OrderSelect(i,SELECT_BY_POS,MODE_TRADES)){
         if(OrderSymbol()==Symbol()&& OrderMagicNumber()==MagicNumber){
            if(OrderType()==OP_BUY){
               if(NormalizeDouble(Bid-OrderOpenPrice(),Digits)<=NormalizeDouble((-1)*trailingstart*Point,Digits)){
                  if(NormalizeDouble(OrderTakeProfit(),Digits)>=NormalizeDouble(Bid+(trailingprofit+TSstep)*Point,Digits) || NormalizeDouble(OrderTakeProfit(),Digits)==0){
                     OrderModify(OrderTicket(),OrderOpenPrice(),OrderStopLoss(),NormalizeDouble(Bid+trailingprofit*Point,Digits),0,Blue);
                  }
               }
            }
            if(OrderType()==OP_SELL){
               if(NormalizeDouble(OrderOpenPrice()-Ask,Digits)<=NormalizeDouble((-1)*trailingstart*Point,Digits)){
                  if(NormalizeDouble(OrderTakeProfit(),Digits)<=NormalizeDouble(Ask-(trailingprofit+TSstep)*Point,Digits)){
                     OrderModify(OrderTicket(),OrderOpenPrice(),OrderStopLoss(),NormalizeDouble(Ask-trailingprofit*Point,Digits),0,Red);
                  
                
                  }
               }
            }
         }
      }
   }
}

R@funyoo
  • #56
  • Aug 22, 2014 5:43pm Aug 22, 2014 5:43pm
Quoting mvp77
{quote} If you can't sleep.... Here's what to play! extern double trailingstart =0; extern double trailingprofit =0; ...... int start() { ........ if(trailingprofit>0)movetrailingprofit(trailingstart,trailingprofit); ....... void movetrailingprofit(double trailingstart,double trailingprofit) { RefreshRates(); for(int i=0;i<OrdersTotal();i++){ if(OrderSelect(i,SELECT_BY_POS,MODE_TRADES)){ if(OrderSymbol()==Symbol()&& OrderMagicNumber()==MagicNumber){ if(OrderType()==OP_BUY){ if(NormalizeDouble(Bid-OrderOpenPrice(),Digits)<=NormalizeDouble((-1)*trailingstart*Point,Digits)){...
Well i do it manually.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #57
  • Aug 23, 2014 8:21am Aug 23, 2014 8:21am
What I fail to notice when I was a rookie is:

- Do not set daily target, set maximum instead. A longer time profit targets are most likely reached, and will not force you to take risky trade as there always be tomorrow where better trade available.
- System did not works on longer horizon, market understanding is what will count. So yes, no shortcut but effort do helps.
- 10% minimum profit a week is nice overtime and very reachable and won't produce much drawdown.
- Take position below or above current range, or below support and above resistance, with small SL is a good newbie strategy if you know what to look before. Your instinct would forbid u doing this, and professionals are exploiting this(ever heard about greed and fear? this is the latter).
- News is not scary but a good way to accumulate position, as long as no position or small position when it announced. I love NFC, unemployment, etc more than anyone here on ff.
- Concept that works usually don't interest most ppl. A good concept lurking here as on many forums, its available but simply don't attract much interest. The one sharing usually won't have much time lurking in some online thread.
- If you want to teach someone to trade, presenting simple and smaller concept would work best. I start with supply and demand area, on my profile there is a trade explorer of someone who learn from me from zero. At least he stay near BE after several month and improving overtime, the equity high was produced by me earlier as sample how to trade(only for two month if I am not wrong).
- Financial market did not follow normal distribution, any average won't work. Simple median works better and more consistent over longer tf. But think why there is no indicator using median? maybe this is one of the best kept secret in financial markets. In non-normal distribution, average are not robust because it has 0 breaking point. The concept of average flawed fundamentally in the financial market.

As the second poster mentioned, I most likely would be bashed by gurus around hahahhaa...... but its okay, I most likely won't be around to respond. This is personal view, I could be wrong but if wrong is good for me then let me be wrong.
  • #58
  • Aug 23, 2014 8:22am Aug 23, 2014 8:22am
Yo Yaed...
thanks for posting your trading stuff.
I saw your results when you had your account visible on FF a while ago.
Eye popping results. I thought, boy would I like to know what he's doing..
Must have read my mind, among your other extra ordinary abilities.
  • #59
  • Aug 23, 2014 9:44am Aug 23, 2014 9:44am
Quoting jiva34
I thought, boy would I like to know what he's doing..
Just ask and i will tell, i dont have any secrets. The bank employees wont understand it anyway, actually takes time and practice, patience and sacrifice.
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #60
  • Aug 23, 2014 10:19am Aug 23, 2014 10:19am
Quoting jiva34
I saw your results when you had your account visible on FF a while ago. Eye popping results. I
Nobody was asking anything about it, and i had all these scripts following me around collecting data. So i decided i didnt want to give up nice good trading information for free to the banks, so i removed it. Look at this now:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: who are those other ones.jpg Size: 52 KB


Hedgefunds, banks, corporations, whoever it is its being done automatically. They arent very polite, they just take. Takers is what they are. They never give. They dont know about love.

Also check post #52 above. What are they doing? Well not contributing to the thread. Not sharing their thoughts. Not being polite and friendly. Id much rather talk to people.

Live exits and entries i dont want to give away if there isnt even anybody who cares.
My signature is: "Classified".
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