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Let's build together a system which makes 1000%/month

  • #121
  • Aug 21, 2014 1:37pm Aug 21, 2014 1:37pm
Proximus,

just another idea... I don't know when this guy lived or died or created his "system", but what do you think about Demark and his "special fractals"?
  • #122
  • Aug 21, 2014 2:13pm Aug 21, 2014 2:13pm
Quoting Proximus
{quote} There was no technical analysis before the 70's , well there were those candle analysts in Japan, the whole renko bars and stuff which dated back 200 years, but not in the west, and traders just got along very well.Think about it...
That wasn't the point of my comment with all do respect.
BTW, I've read whole thread and let me just give my opinion in few questions.
Do you win game of chess by one move?
Do you win poker tournament by playing one hand?
Do you became fighter pilot over months time?
Do you became brain surgeon over months?
Do you become millionaire over night (months)? (especially when you starting with $100 and by Christmas you want ti be millionaire)

Hope you are getting the point...

Please just hear me out - its not that i'm pessimistic or don't have ambitions or dreams of making million, it is just pure experience - been there, tried it.

Sure you can make 1000% return a month that is if you very very lucky, but you can not do it over and over again - you wont be constant as your trading will be carrying enormous amount of risk in order to achieve such results and eventually account will blow up...

Maybe try something bit different...

Example: (lets say we live in ideal world for purpose of this example)

Working days in 2014 = 253 - 10%(your holidays or just simply you don't trade some days) = 228 days - that's average 19 days per month when you do trade.

Starting capital: £10000

Daily target of return: 1% (Now max daily risk would be 0.5% so in other words looking for trades with 2:1 RR or when RR is 1:1 not risking more than 0.5% and return target would me the same 0.5% - simply no always you gone be able to find 2:1 or better RR trade)

Again lets pretend we are living in ideal world and you do make every day that you trade positive return of 1% and you haven't had any loosing day (BTW, that's impossible in real world) and you haven't withdraw any money . By the day 463 your account would have grown to £1,001,834.68 exactly.

Now 463 days divided by 19 days = 24.36 which is 2 years and 7 days to get you to £1M in ideal world...

Unfortunately we are not living in ideal world so lets multiply this time by 2 = 4+ years to get you to £1M... (that's still very optimistic in my opinion)

Is it worth it time and effort? Would you take a job if some one promised you that after 5 years of working for XYZ company or person they will pay you £1M???

Above example its just simple simulation, if you were to increase your daily return target to 1.5% by the day 310 your account would have reached £1,010,352.91 exactly (ideal world calculation), 2% a day, 233 days account balance =£1,008,881.18 exactly (ideal world calculation)

Is it making 1-2% a day realistic? I believe it is, but you wont make it every day, there are gone be loosing days and there are gone be break even days.

Can you drink cistern of milk in one go? No, you cant. Can you drink cistern of milk glass by glass over time? Yes, you can as long as you drink at least a glass of milk every day.

Good luck and don't stop dreaming! But, don't forget to put together a solid plan and stick to it 200% to support your dreams!
  • #123
  • Aug 21, 2014 3:01pm Aug 21, 2014 3:01pm
Quoting ArekJP
{quote} That wasn't the point of my comment with all do respect. BTW, I've read whole thread and let me just give my opinion in few questions. Do you win game of chess by one move? Do you win poker tournament by playing one hand? Do you became fighter pilot over months time? Do you became brain surgeon over months? Do you become millionaire over night (months)? (especially when you starting with $100 and by Christmas you want ti be millionaire) Hope you are getting the point... Please just hear me out - its not that i'm pessimistic or don't have...
The best post I have read recently.Thanks!
  • #124
  • Aug 21, 2014 4:33pm Aug 21, 2014 4:33pm
While I also agree with ArekJP's point, I do think that it is a good idea to collaborate ideas to make a system that leads one down the road to positive pip balance .
That being said, while ambition is very very good, would it not be safer to come to a system that, say, was consistent at 5% a week for example, and keep making slow but stable tweaks to make it as good as possible?
Rather like ironing out the bugs in a well though out computer game if you will.
  • #125
  • Aug 21, 2014 10:13pm Aug 21, 2014 10:13pm
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 1.jpg Size: 107 KB


pic above, begin with 100000 USD , a Chinese trader

the pic below,begin with 33 USD , last for 2 month , now , the margin close to 1000 USD
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2.jpg Size: 56 KB

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 3.jpg Size: 60 KB

but they declined to disclose his method
  • #126
  • Aug 21, 2014 11:03pm Aug 21, 2014 11:03pm
ArekJP's points are valid. The title's "1000%/month" isn't really Prox's goal I'd say its more of the elusive dream but if failure only means making 20, 50, 100 percent/month then his still winning. The only downside of the name is that it puts this thread in the "Rookie Talk" section.

Now that aside has anyone consider the creation of an agent based model to represent the players in the market?
Notionally a well constructed agent based model could take significant steps towards modelling FX order flow.

Here are some papers (links to a dropbox folder): https://db.tt/GU5G4WMX

Its just an idea that I am exploring in parallel with click trading.
  • #127
  • Aug 21, 2014 11:22pm Aug 21, 2014 11:22pm
Quoting PipMeUp
{quote} What about William Delbert Gann, Ralph Nelson Elliott or Goichi Hosoda to name a few?
Time travellers

Ok you got a point there, but it wasnt nearly as popular as it is today.

Quoting phdmonster
Proximus, just another idea... I don't know when this guy lived or died or created his "system", but what do you think about Demark and his "special fractals"?
I got a very sour attitude towards all technical systems, because i havent found a profitable one yet, and i`m sure many of your are on the same conclusion.

Quoting ArekJP
{quote} That wasn't the point of my comment...
Nice post thanks, but the 1000%/month is more like to get the attention of traders, i cannot know how much % the system will make ,we will find out on the run.If it will only make 50%/ month its fine too, because 90% of traders cant even make quarter of that.

But of course we wont stop dreaming, sky is the limit.

Quoting 9047
ArekJP's points are valid. The title's "1000%/month" isn't really Prox's goal I'd say its more of the elusive dream but if failure only means making 20, 50, 100 percent/month then his still winning. The only downside of the name is that it puts this thread in the "Rookie Talk" section. Now that aside has anyone consider the creation of an agent based model to represent the players in the market? Notionally a well constructed agent based model could take significant steps towards modelling FX order flow. Here are some papers (links to a dropbox folder):...
Yeah i started it in the trading discussion section, but someone put in in the rookie section for no reason
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #128
  • Aug 21, 2014 11:37pm Aug 21, 2014 11:37pm
Quoting zouleisheng
{image} pic above, begin with 100000 USD , a Chinese trader the pic below,begin with 33 USD , last for 2 month , now , the margin close to 1000 USD {image} {image} but they declined to disclose his method
Yep, it shows that you can be profitable with any amount of starting capital.Well 33 USD is a little bit too small because you need big leverage to start with that, i think 100-200 $/€/£ is the ideal amount because you can already open microlots with that, and not necessarly overleverage yourself.I think no beginner should open account bigger than that, only when they grow that account to lets say 500-600, then they can add a few thousand to it.

Quoting 9047
ArekJP's points are valid. The title's "1000%/month" isn't really Prox's goal I'd say its more of the elusive dream but if failure only means making 20, 50, 100 percent/month then his still winning. The only downside of the name is that it puts this thread in the "Rookie Talk" section. Now that aside has anyone consider the creation of an agent based model to represent the players in the market? Notionally a well constructed agent based model could take significant steps towards modelling FX order flow. Here are some papers (links to a dropbox folder):...

Thanks man, looks like i have some reading homework to do, these are just a few very interesting papers there.The microstructure i`m not really interested in it, because i dont think that can be forecasted with LV1 quote data, and anyway the market is too decentralized for that, i`ll leave that to big banks to work with who can estimate the liquidity pool of their own.

I`m more interested in the macrostructure, because i only need to determine a bias, nothing more, i dont need to forecast pip-by-pip the market, only a bias, and once the "coin" gets biased, then its only a matter of "throws" to the million
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #129
  • Edited Aug 22, 2014 12:17am Aug 21, 2014 11:58pm | Edited Aug 22, 2014 12:17am
Quoting zouleisheng
.....but they declined to disclose his method
Who cares what this trader is doing. You will learn more about trading (and yourself) by finding patterns and building an edge yourself. I'm not saying you have be to original and find a brilliant new way to trade, just take a method you think will work and apply that method to a market you know (there are lots of them here - just be mindful that systems offering simplicity via indicator only driven entry rules are likely to be rubbish or the system owner doesn't realise the level of discretion they are applying). Doing so will teach you more about the market, how to assess trading ideas and most importantly to be consistent in your execution. Without the consistency you won't be able find the weaknesses in the system and your applicaiton of it. Consistency is at the core of what separates the amateur from the professional - its the 10000 hours rule.

You'll also get a lot more out of sitting down every spare minute you can get and looking at how a particular market moves (e.g. spot FX, ES, US treasury futures - my favourite, a particular stock etc etc). You''ll learn how it lives and breaths - you need to understand the market you intend to trade. If you've seen 1000 possible entries for your system over time you begin to learn when to stay out and when to "load the boat." WMD (http://www.forexfactory.com/wmd) posted a great video on his website, in it he talks about the rhythm of the market. In the this case he talks about the movement of spot FX but the clincher is that that rhythm exists in all markets (but liquidity helps). The video can be found here http://wmd4x.com/how-price-moves-ii/ .

Some of the best threads I've read on FF are about trading with no or only occasionally using indicators and that is the crux of what WMD is talking about. Any automated system needs to embody this thinking. Building such a beast will require some out of box thinking to cleverly incorporate the "discretionary" concepts embodied in many of these approaches, assuming you want full automation. Most of my coding for FX trading has been to allow me to automate filtering for the "non-discretionary" elements of these methods and advise me of possible set ups. See these threads for ideas: Fail Better, Trading with Deadly Accuracy and S&R short term bounces.

Similar to PipMeUp I have my own platform but I route my trades through MT4 and/or cTrader. (I've ploughed a lot of effort into that system and don't want make publicly available because I don't want the support headaches). I know MQL4 but I dislike it more than Java .
  • #130
  • Aug 22, 2014 12:05am Aug 22, 2014 12:05am
Quoting 9047
{quote} Who cares what this trader is doing. You will learn more about trading (and yourself) by finding patterns and building an edge yourself. I'm not saying you have be to original and find a brilliant new way to trade, just take a method you think will work and apply that method to a market you know (there are lots of them here - just be mindful that systems offering simplicity via indicator only driven entry rules are likely to be rubbish or the system owner doesn't realise the level of discretion they are applying). Doing so will teach you...
Fantastic post.
  • #131
  • Aug 22, 2014 1:44am Aug 22, 2014 1:44am
Make 1000% / Month, The Holy Grail:

1. Beginning of the month : deposit $100
2. During the month : do nothing
3. Near end of the month : deposit $900
4. End of the month : withdraw all
5. Next month : repeat step #1

This system can be scaled up with consistent result

That which does not kill us makes us stronger
  • #132
  • Aug 22, 2014 2:40am Aug 22, 2014 2:40am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} Yes my dream is to start with 100€ and be a millionaire by Christmas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Zanger This guy turned his 10.000 $ account into 18 million in 1 year, so why not turn a 100€ into 1 million in half year?
The holy grail is out there. I observe it every day. It's complex beyond words though and will take a lot of hard work and self reliance. No one is going to give it to you. Anyone who has it does not have to teach it for a living nor does his need the reverence of others. It is his hard won security. Thus I wish you good luck and keep searching...but be prepared to eventually turn to your own ingenuity.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #133
  • Aug 22, 2014 2:50am Aug 22, 2014 2:50am
Inserted Video
  • #134
  • Aug 22, 2014 2:54am Aug 22, 2014 2:54am
Quoting moneymove
Make 1000% / Month, The Holy Grail: 1. Beginning of the month : deposit $100 2. During the month : do nothing 3. Near end of the month : deposit $900 4. End of the month : withdraw all 5. Next month : repeat step #1 This system can be scaled up with consistent result
Haha actually you need to deposit 1000$ not 900$ to make 1000% growth so 100$ initial and then 1000$ at the end of the month.

But its actually BS because you pay comissions to the broker when you withdraw, and the transfer fee when you transfer money from your bank account , so you actually get back like 1080$ if you are lucky

Quoting traider
{quote} The holy grail is out there. I observe it every day. It's complex beyond words though and will take a lot of hard work and self reliance. No one is going to give it to you. Anyone who has it does not have to teach it for a living nor does his need the reverence of others. It is his hard won security. Thus I wish you good luck and keep searching...but be prepared to eventually turn to your own ingenuity.
Actually i know many profitable trading strategies which i learnt from institutional guys, but they are very long term trading methods which make about 20-30%/year.
I am a quick buck artist, so i want more like 20-30%/week if its ok
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #135
  • Aug 22, 2014 2:58am Aug 22, 2014 2:58am
I trade the 15 min tf and catch daily sentiment. In during Asia, out at the close of NY typically, every day. These moves tend to ignore news etc. At news time, these setups signal which way the news will go, sort of thing. Patience is the key however as you need to understand the logic behind these moves before you benefit from the knowledge.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #136
  • Aug 22, 2014 3:06am Aug 22, 2014 3:06am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} Haha actually you need to deposit 1000$ not 900$ to make 1000% growth so 100$ initial and then 1000$ at the end of the month. But its actually BS because you pay comissions to the broker when you withdraw, and the transfer fee when you transfer money from your bank account , so you actually get back like 1080$ if you are lucky {quote} Actually i know many profitable trading strategies which i learnt from institutional guys, but they are very long term trading methods which make about 20-30%/year. I am a quick buck artist, so i...
Your best bet is to take a grid martingale style system with a couple grand and just try to make as much as you can then withdraw it once you doubled and just keep doing that over and over. You wont get 1000% but you will get 100s easy
All posts are my personal opinion
  • #137
  • Aug 22, 2014 3:14am Aug 22, 2014 3:14am
Quoting Rtm
{quote} Your best bet is to take a grid martingale style system with a couple grand and just try to make as much as you can then withdraw it once you doubled and just keep doing that over and over. You wont get 1000% but you will get 100s easy
This is a trading forum and a trading discussion, not a gambling one sorry.If i would want to gamble for any reason, it would not be in FX, because the markets are the worst place to gamble.Poker, BJ card counting, etc, are way more efficient.

In forex we actually come here to make real money, not "cross your fingers to not lose the entire account in 1 trade" type of money
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #138
  • Aug 22, 2014 3:30am Aug 22, 2014 3:30am
Quoting TheDandelion
{quote} The best post I have read recently.Thanks!
Thank you - highly appreciated!
I'm glad to see that others as well can see and understand my point, because this is foundation to any system you may want to create.

Good luck!
  • #139
  • Aug 22, 2014 3:52am Aug 22, 2014 3:52am
Quoting 9047
{quote} Who cares what this trader is doing. You will learn more about trading (and yourself) by finding patterns and building an edge yourself. I'm not saying you have be to original and find a brilliant new way to trade, just take a method you think will work and apply that method to a market you know (there are lots of them here - just be mindful that systems offering simplicity via indicator only driven entry rules are likely to be rubbish or the system owner doesn't realise the level of discretion they are applying). Doing so will teach you...
Totally agree. As everything in life requires time and effort to became master of it - forex or trading itself is no different - requires time, effort and patience to understand it in the first place. I guess too many traders (especially new ones) seed it as a sprint while its a marathon - that's why most fails because they are prepared themselves in their brains for 'sprint'... And that's is where we are going back to expectation - look around you and compare different aspects of life you will find out that there is a set of rules which repeats itself over and over again - and no matter what you wont change it. So why on earth would you think that trading is any different and those rules doesn't apply?

Change your thinking - it will change your trading.

ArekJP
  • #140
  • Aug 22, 2014 4:00am Aug 22, 2014 4:00am
Price action is better than fancy indicators. Don't need to know where the train is going, I just need to be in.
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