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Is anyone here an institutional trader?

  • #521
  • Aug 16, 2014 8:56am Aug 16, 2014 8:56am
Quoting skenobi
{quote} Why?
Went to "Liars poker" wiki page, "Barbarians at the Gate: The Fall of RJR Nabisco" was also mentioned there so went to its wiki page next, saw there was also a HBO TV movie made on it, searched for it on torrents, it was not there but in the search results there was "The Roman War Machine Barbarians at the Gate" which is about the Roman army's history.

While watching the doc they mentioned a slave/gladiator Spartacus's rise and fall and i remembered that there was also a series based on him and downloaded it.


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  • #522
  • Aug 16, 2014 6:19pm Aug 16, 2014 6:19pm
Quoting Special One
Hi Skenobi & JacobFordFX, Here are my questions: 1. Do you think having only statistical edge is enough for a trader to trade consistently profitable? (exclude money management and psychology of course, I am strictly talking about trading signal) 2. Do you apply diversification (in order to reduce max drawdown) in your career as a non institutional trade now? Thanks for your attention.
I trade based on my model and my gut (on my blog I have my model generated trades and Special Situations, which is more my "gut" or "intuition). I wouldn't consider it an edge at all. I would define an edge differently. An edge in my book is having knowledge that will guarantee you make money. That was easier when I was a market maker. For example, there was this spot trader who had the emerging market spot books. This guy never put on a prop trade in the entire time I knew him. His edge was he knew that a certain customer or customers would ALWAYS come in at least once a month and trade with him in size and told him his way and gave him discretion over the fill. He made a lot of money doing this. He didn't risk putting on a prop trade where he may or may not make money. He knew he could just wait patiently until his customer came calling. That's and edge!!!

Another vivid example I could remember, a big hedge fund came in looking to sell 200 mio eurusd at 8:29 am est on non-farm payrolls day. That is unheard of kind of event risk. You don't do something that risky unless you know what the number will be. Thats an edge!!!!

I look at what I do, other may disagree, as a statistical endeavor. I try to do the right things in my trading so that over the course of a big enough sample I will manage to make money. That's how I have always look at trading both now and when I traded for the bank.
  • #523
  • Aug 17, 2014 12:01am Aug 17, 2014 12:01am
Thank you for your answer, JacobFordFX.
  • #524
  • Aug 17, 2014 12:12am Aug 17, 2014 12:12am
I have more question for both of you, experts.
Which kind of entry method that you consider give better result, enter market at breakout (buy at top price) or enter at a retracement (for directional trading).

This question have come in my mind since beginning days of my forex journey until now.
  • #525
  • Aug 17, 2014 9:14am Aug 17, 2014 9:14am
Quoting Special One
I have more question for both of you, experts. Which kind of entry method that you consider give better result, enter market at breakout (buy at top price) or enter at a retracement (for directional trading). This question have come in my mind since beginning days of my forex journey until now.
I incorporate both in my trading to various degrees.....they both work at different points in different markets.
  • #526
  • Aug 17, 2014 9:36am Aug 17, 2014 9:36am
Quoting nasir.khan
{quote} Went to "Liars poker" wiki page, "Barbarians at the Gate: The Fall of RJR Nabisco" was also mentioned there so went to its wiki page next, saw there was also a HBO TV movie made on it, searched for it on torrents, it was not there but in the search results there was "The Roman War Machine Barbarians at the Gate" which is about the Roman army's history. While watching the doc they mentioned a slave/gladiator Spartacus's rise and fall and i remembered that there was also a series based on him and downloaded it. .
I meant "Liars Poker" the book, not "Liars Poker" the wiki page.

The Spartacus TV series is mostly fiction "inspired" by a real person but not really based on any real historical events for the most part. The fact that it hardly has anything to do with trading makes the time you spent watching it a very sad waste.

Read the book, not a wiki page.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #527
  • Aug 17, 2014 9:36am Aug 17, 2014 9:36am
JacobFordFX's edge is his own, but the following answers are from my perspective. YMMV..

Quoting Special One
1. Do you think having only statistical edge is enough for a trader to trade consistently profitable? (exclude money management and psychology of course, I am strictly talking about trading signal)
No.
Any edge (statistical or otherwise) is not enough without a healthy respect and appetite for risk. For example: How much more or less risk averse you are (and how much more or less you're able to manage your risk) determines whether your edge will continue to make you money. This is why you may get ten wildly different results if you teach the same edge to ten different traders.

Quoting Special One
2. Do you apply diversification (in order to reduce max drawdown) in your career as a non institutional trade now? Thanks for your attention.
Not sure what you mean by "diversification". If you meant diversify into other asset classes (like stocks), I would never do this.

If you meant diversify into other currency pairs, well I let my methodology decide pair selection. I have no "favorite" pairs. If you want to call that "diversification", feel free. I don't call it anything.

Quoting Special One
I have more question for both of you, experts. Which kind of entry method that you consider give better result, enter market at breakout (buy at top price) or enter at a retracement (for directional trading).
I do both regularly depending on my method. If I trade breakouts when my rules require trading retracements (and vice versa), I suppose I would get fvcked up results.

So if I just follow the rules, I guess both entry methods will give equally good results (?). Even then, I can't say for sure. Sorry I can't give a more definitive answer. Perhaps the answer depends on the individual.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #528
  • Aug 19, 2014 3:45am Aug 19, 2014 3:45am
Quoting skenobi
No. Any edge (statistical or otherwise) is not enough without a healthy respect and appetite for risk. For example: How much more or less risk averse you are (and how much more or less you're able to manage your risk) determines whether your edge will continue to make you money.
I don't understand your statement.
"How much more or less risk averse you are" --> If my system give me buy signal, I should take it no matter I am a more or less risk averse, right?
Do you mean that the method that contain the edge must be suitable for trader's personality so he can trade the method without psychological barrier?

Quoting skenobi
Not sure what you mean by "diversification". If you meant diversify into other asset classes (like stocks), I would never do this.
I mean portofolio trading, trading our method to several pairs or several time frame, or even trade several methods to several pairs in several time frames.

Quoting skenobi
If you meant diversify into other currency pairs, well I let my methodology decide pair selection. I have no "favorite" pairs. If you want to call that "diversification", feel free. I don't call it anything.
Is that mean that when a buy signal come, based on your methodology, you decide which pair is the best pair to trade at that moment?

Quoting JacobFordFX
{quote} I incorporate both in my trading to various degrees.....they both work at different points in different markets.
Quoting skenobi
I do both regularly depending on my method. If I trade breakouts when my rules require trading retracements (and vice versa), I suppose I would get fvcked up results. So if I just follow the rules, I guess both entry methods will give equally good results (?). Even then, I can't say for sure. Sorry I can't give a more definitive answer. Perhaps the answer depends on the individual.
I think you and JacobFordFX are right, both methods are working as long as we pick the right direction. So, I should stop searching which one is better and choose the one that more suitable to my personality.

Enter at breakout (buy at top) always give me guilty feeling because I feel I buy it at more expensive price and the loss can be huge (500-800 pips). However, until now, based on my research", I never able to find a "retracement entry method" that give consistent and significant better result than "enter at breakout entry method". In the mean time, "enter at breakout" is easier to execute since we don't need to check charts as many as "retracement entry method".

Thanks for both of you, I really appreciate your help.
  • #529
  • Aug 19, 2014 4:05am Aug 19, 2014 4:05am
Quoting Special One
{quote} I don't understand your statement. "How much more or less risk averse you are" --> If my system give me buy signal, I should take it no matter I am a more or less risk averse, right? Do you mean that the method that contain the edge must be suitable for trader's personality so he can trade the method without psychological barrier?
If your system gives you a buy signal and you take that signal NO MATTER WHAT else is happening in the background, that would imply (to me) that you are less risk averse i.e. more willing to take more risk (simplistically speaking).

If you're willing to trade ALL signals from a system, you seem to be less risk averse.

If you are only willing to trade systems with more discretionary elements in them, then perhaps you're more risk averse. All systems/methods are somewhere in between, depending on who is using them.

Quoting Special One
{quote} I mean portofolio trading, trading our method to several pairs or several time frame, or even trade several methods to several pairs in several time frames.
My intent in trading different methods or several pairs or several time frames is not diversification, although I can understand how it may seem like diversification to observers. I trade opportunities when they come.

Quoting Special One
{quote} Is that mean that when a buy signal come, based on your methodology, you decide which pair is the best pair to trade at that moment?
With my methodology, I don't decide the pair. The method decides the pair. I just trade it. A discretionary element comes in when I decide how big/small the trade I put in and for how long, depending on how I judge the probability of making any money from it.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #530
  • Aug 19, 2014 4:13am Aug 19, 2014 4:13am
I understand clearly now, Skenobi.
Thanks a lot.
  • #531
  • Aug 20, 2014 6:25am Aug 20, 2014 6:25am
Quoting spieler
Hi all just to let you know ( see my posts in may) that i am still short and that 65% of retails are long( look bottom home page here) . Isn't that the holy grail i was talking about ?? Ok it goes slow and boring but down More than 350 pips, that's in the basket so far . My target is way lower but have now a stop in huge positive territory
Still 65% of retail traders are long on eur/usd i keep my short position, more down to come . more than 100 pips again almost 500 pips since the short doing nothing just monitoring
  • #532
  • Aug 20, 2014 7:07am Aug 20, 2014 7:07am
This thread was a fun read.

Thanks skinobi and Jacob
  • #533
  • Aug 20, 2014 9:28am Aug 20, 2014 9:28am
Quoting spieler
{quote} Still 65% of retail traders are long on eur/usd i keep my short position, more down to come . more than 100 pips again almost 500 pips since the short doing nothing just monitoring

Nice info. when you change your mind i mean sentimental or bias or direction
  • #534
  • Aug 20, 2014 9:37am Aug 20, 2014 9:37am
Hello,

How does pro manage their loss?

I mean if you have any current position in lose, do you sold it completly? or manage your lose: one part sold and manage with scalping till you are in BE?

Hope you understand what i mean, sorry for my bas english.

Thank you
Bottomless wonders spring from simple rules, which are repeated without end
  • #535
  • Aug 20, 2014 9:43am Aug 20, 2014 9:43am
Quoting limprobable
Hello, How does pro manage their loss? I mean if you have any current position in lose, do you sold it completly? or manage your lose: one part sold and manage with scalping till you are in BE? Hope you understand what i mean, sorry for my bas english. Thank you
My way: A position should be closed or not, does not depend on whether it lose or not, but depend on whether I still want to hold it or not.
I am not a pro yet, but I believe maybe the pro will do the same as me.
  • #536
  • Aug 20, 2014 7:30pm Aug 20, 2014 7:30pm
Quoting limprobable
Hello, How does pro manage their loss? I mean if you have any current position in lose, do you sold it completly? or manage your lose: one part sold and manage with scalping till you are in BE? Hope you understand what i mean, sorry for my bas english. Thank you
???

Pros don't all manage losses the same way. And that's as far as I'm willing to answer.

Sorry, mate. You won't find that magic bullet here.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #537
  • Aug 24, 2014 4:44am Aug 24, 2014 4:44am
Hi Skenobi.

Does your mental stop ever hit ?

What kind of trader Institutional are ? Long term/Medium term/Short term ?

Thanks.
-milkeyway
  • #538
  • Aug 24, 2014 9:49am Aug 24, 2014 9:49am
Quoting kumaramy
Does your mental stop ever hit ?
Yes, if I let it. Otherwise, I stop myself out early.


Quoting kumaramy
What kind of trader Institutional are ? Long term/Medium term/Short term ? Thanks.
There are all kinds.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #539
  • Aug 24, 2014 11:16am Aug 24, 2014 11:16am
Its for threads like these I thank Heavens for FF,

There's something I would like anyone to enlighten me on and that's the issue of liquidity

I see that liquid (Eur/Usd etc) pairs have very small price movements (20-50 points/day), compared to less liquid pairs like Usd/Mxn (100-300/day), now does this mean that once a lot of people begin to trade a pair (increasing its liquidity by my understanding) its price range/day (pip/day) subsequently become lower?
  • #540
  • Aug 24, 2014 11:21am Aug 24, 2014 11:21am
Intervention from ECB...no doubt


Quoting sinqua
Its for threads like these I thank Heavens for FF, There's something I would like anyone to enlighten me on and that's the issue of liquidity I see that liquid (Eur/Usd etc) pairs have very small price movements (20-50 points/day), compared to less liquid pairs like Usd/Mxn (100-300/day), now does this mean that once a lot of people begin to trade a pair (increasing its liquidity by my understanding) its price range/day (pip/day) subsequently become lower?
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