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  • #141
  • Jul 30, 2014 12:49am Jul 30, 2014 12:49am
Quoting iDoubleStoch
{quote} Thanks, Mingary. I have learned a lot form you in this thread.
Always a pleasure to help.
  • #142
  • Jul 30, 2014 3:49am Jul 30, 2014 3:49am
Quoting iDoubleStoch
{quote} Hello Rand: I call it Digital Geometry and B2i is one of several DG type indicators. It just happens to be one that I can share right now. This is its prototype version 1.0. It is currently in version 5.x within the overall trading system. Back when I used to do mostly system development all day long, I would take mid-day naps and listen to theta and beta frequency aural tones while contemplating a problem to be solved. Often times, I would ask my subconscious to come up with a new idea about price behavior before going to sleep at night....
Thank you for sharing your beliefs and insights. It is rare to see someone who's trading concept and application has reached your level of refinement.

I can deduce why you try to use Vectors as an approach, to which the b2i was borned. It seems neat and worthy of an exploration. Vectors drawn on the price chart with time as i and price as j just doesn't make any sense to me at this moment. With that said.... it doesn't means i can disapprove of it too either, maybe it is just not within my reach of understanding.
  • #143
  • Jul 30, 2014 3:58am Jul 30, 2014 3:58am
Is the fall line considered void to you when it is touched inside the box?
  • #144
  • Edited 12:53pm Jul 30, 2014 5:58am | Edited 12:53pm
Hi iDoubleStoch,
I've been attempting the B2i on all sorts of charts and it’s actually hard to believe how good it is at reaching the fall line. So thank you, I think, for injecting these strange rectangles into my mind and for starting such an interesting thread. Here’s one I made earlier - a 12 hour box using a 5 minute chart. I hope that I’ve drawn it correctly.

Kind regards

edit. added the 24 hour box

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot2.png Size: 104 KB
It's all about bucks, kid. The rest is conversation.
  • #145
  • Jul 30, 2014 6:52am Jul 30, 2014 6:52am
Quoting Lalu
Hi iDoubleStoch, I've been attempting the B2i on all sorts of charts and it’s actually hard to believe how good it is at reaching the fall line. So thank you, I think, for injecting these strange rectangles into my mind and for starting such an interesting thread. Here’s one I made earlier - a 12 hour box using a 5 minute chart. I hope that I’ve drawn it correctly. Kind regards {image}
I somehow thought this would catch your eye Lalu.
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #146
  • Edited 10:30am Jul 30, 2014 8:45am | Edited 10:30am
Quoting saticdoor86
hi doublestoch, if i want to trade the boxes on 1 hour charts, is it better to use two days worth of data to draw the box?( the high and low of two days) I find that using two days is more accurate. What are your thoughts? thank you.
I have been using weekly, 3 day, 24 hr boxes with a volume strategy to pin point entry, I am also using a 300 EMA and 150 EMA, 3 trades this week 3 wins.

Wrong pic, shows 3 day now.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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Click to Enlarge Name: eurusdm 3 day.png Size: 67 KB
  • #147
  • Jul 30, 2014 3:28pm Jul 30, 2014 3:28pm
Ok, let's review

7/29/2014 Hybrid 8 Hr B2i

The Fall Line was missed on my chart. Just like yesterday, one some charts I'm sure it made it all the way. Not enough follow-through for my liking, however. Still, the "tendency" was good which demonstrates that the pattern's principle is a sound one. The potential Cross-Over played more to the "risk" than the "potential." The price behavior that I spoke of yesterday, where price would "merge" with OS1 Green, match its trajectory for a period of time and then make the crossing up to the OS1 Red, was all spot on until about 02:57 UTC, when the price rejected the "crossing" and continued into the already existing directional bias of OS1. A pretty typical type of failure - I've seen it many times before over the years. The M1 OS1 crossing was not yet ready. Everything else turned out pretty much as expected but Fall Line penetration failed.

http://i57.tinypic.com/x4rpmo.jpg


7/30/2014 D1 Projected B2i w/Static Distinct Vega Input

These are tough to do without having the B2i projected pattern linked to real-time Distinct Vega inputs. So, the ultimate changes that took place in the signal engine which moves the Potential Zone and the Risk Zone in real-time, are simply not possible to do in a venue like this. I thought about recording it and then posting it to my YouTube account, but that would have far exceeding the 10 minute limit on YouTube videos. There really is no good way to demonstrate live updates in such a static environment, but I hope you at least get some idea of what I was shooting for.

The idea is that both the Potential and Risk Zones will move in real-time with Distinct Vega, because that indicator is NOT a static predictive indicator like B2i. The take away here, is that you can use Static Predictive Indicators coupled with Dynamic Real-Time Indicators to produce a Live Real-Time Trading System or Methodology. You can do this in an EA, or like do, in Excel with live feed data coming in through MT4 to multiple spreadsheets. So, those Zones in blue highlight were from the D1 Distinct Vega output at the start of the 7/30/2014 session when I original posted it last night. There was no live updating of those zones which DID move according to what the market generated today.

Here is the actual data from the current D1 Distinct Vega Indicator - just so you know that it is real and does exist:

http://i58.tinypic.com/rcpq2x.jpg


MN (June) B2i Fall Line Attraction

This pic shows the relative position of the much larger June MN B2i pattern and Fall Line relative to current price. Still a heavy influence on the smaller B2i structures.

http://i58.tinypic.com/jpa0dz.jpg


Summary

I think these smaller upside B2i structures are feeling the weight of the larger scale MN B2i structure. The OS1 structures are also putting downward pressure on these smaller B2i upside projections and that is contributing to the lack of follow-through. The Market Phase is clearly position 5 (Bullish) for this particular GBPUSD pair (please don't confuse this with the pairs you are working with). I picked this pair because someone in the thread throw it at me for analysis - so I stayed with it thus far. There are a lot of scalping type B2i structures both Long and Short that were available during the course of this week in GBPUSD, however.

Keep these notes clearly in mind regarding B2i:

- B2i is NOT a directional bias or trending indicator type.
- B2i is by design a counter-bias (or counter-trend) indicator.
- B2i need volatility (as do most indicators).
- B2i works optimally in Market Phases 2, 3, 4 and both Inverse Conditions of 3 and 4.
- B2i will lack follow-through in Market Phase 1 (Full Bullish Vertical) where the trade is Short to the Fall Line.
- B2i will lack follow-through in Market Phase 5 (Full Bearish Vertical) where the trade is Long to the Fall Line.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #148
  • Jul 30, 2014 4:04pm Jul 30, 2014 4:04pm
Quoting Thepipster
geez...worse than inputting on the FMS... Is it a good guess to say the parallelogram is using the same basic concept as drawing an ab=cd pattern, without having to have a b-c leg defined in the middle? Or is it just the bcd part? .... \_ ...?
I wish I could load a trade into a GNS530-like trading system and follow it like a GPS approach to LPV minimums, but I'm not that good a designer (yet). No. The four (4) sided structure will always have two angles that are identical because the structure itself is simply a mirror of the O:H and O:L legs. AB:CD patterns are supposed to have specific legs lengths before they qualify as being "harmonic." Of course, some say they need not be "harmonic" at all. However, I do see your point and essentially you could say that "C" in an AB:CD pattern is the de facto Approach Fix. However, technically that would be incorrect because if "C" is not "harmonic" then there is no AB:CD (some will argue otherwise).

Additionally, in an AB:CD pattern, "A" is supposed to be a clearly defined Swing Low. In the B2i, what looks like "A" is the Open price and it may or may not ever be anywhere near a true Swing Low. However, being very much in-tuned with Harmonic Trading, you can bet that inside my actual trading system, there are most definitely some Harmonic Calculations being feed into the B2i Module - without question that is true.

It is no coincidence that the Initial Fib Range of the O:H leg of the B2i pattern was 22 pips and the Retrace Range from a deeply established 261.8 was also the same 22 pips. That kind of uncanny symmetry is not mere just a coincidence. Fall Line also sits directly under the 161.8 level as well. What a coincidence. Not.

http://i58.tinypic.com/11hz9lu.jpg

Harmonics are everywhere in the markets. We could not hide from them even if we wanted to.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #149
  • Jul 30, 2014 4:30pm Jul 30, 2014 4:30pm
Quoting Batavier
Trying my best to reverse engineer your chart. I think I got the B2i close. But the OS1 still baffles me. Using SMA 480 (8 x 60) and 1260 (21 x 60)....

Hello Batavier,

(everyone following should pay attention to this one)


DIAGONAL FALL LINE EXAMPLE (TARGET SLOPE)


You stole my thunder a bit. You have found the Sloped Fall Line. Congratulations! That makes me REALLY happy - it really does! It tells me that you put on your thinking cap and found a way to reduce risk. Outstanding! I was going to introduce this later, but now is as good a time as any.

You have found out that this reduces risk by making the Fall Line more accessible to the market. This works best when you can enter the trade earlier, closer to the Approach Fix point and it makes for a good continuous scalping target as well. It is tighter but it also contains higher probability as well for obvious reasons. There are two (2) drawbacks to using the Sloped Fall Line:

1) You really do want to use larger B2i patterns, so that you have enough distance between the Approach Fix, Entry Window and the Sloped Fall Line. Works great with high volume scalping, however.

2) Unless you can manually track the trade and exit on target slope, you will need an EA that can handle the dynamic tracking for you. That's a bummer for those who cannot code an EA because you must project a sloped line on a chart, which is quite different than simply calculating and defining a horizontal target level.

http://i61.tinypic.com/1zg5n3c.jpg

Good work!
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #150
  • Jul 30, 2014 5:12pm Jul 30, 2014 5:12pm
Quoting Rand Yap
{quote} Thank you for sharing your beliefs and insights. It is rare to see someone who's trading concept and application has reached your level of refinement. I can deduce why you try to use Vectors as an approach, to which the b2i was borned. It seems neat and worthy of an exploration. Vectors drawn on the price chart with time as i and price as j just doesn't make any sense to me at this moment. With that said.... it doesn't means i can disapprove of it too either, maybe it is just not within my reach of understanding.

Trajectories as defined within the system I use are different. They are composed of Direction and Magnitude between price points within a stream of OHLC data. A trajectory is defined as a directional connection between two specific data points within a data set. Magnitude is defined as Absolute and Aggregate. Absolute magnitude is the actual distance in price between both data points that make up the trajectory. The Aggregate magnitude is the average of all magnitudes for a specific type of trajectory. The vast majority of my indicator designs are trajectory based. B2i uses by default, two fundamental trajectories: Open to High and Open to Low. O:H and O:L are 2 of the 5 fundamental trajectories contained in the Distinct Vega indicator.

So, when I say "trajectory," I'm talking about both the Absolute and Aggregate forms as a whole, which speaks to the manifested behavior of price over time, as found within any historical data set. From that, I extrapolate forward using any number of tools (indicators) that I have developed over the years. Trajectories are tied to bars of data within a data set. Download any time frame from MT4 and you have a data set with which you can develop and study your own trajectories. High[0] - Open[0] is a trajectory. So, is High[13] - Close[4]. The larger the data set the larger the trajectory possibilities.

OHLC Trajectories of a specific type when aggregated together form a Vector. That Vector has both aggregate Direction and aggregate Magnitude. Thus, you can observe the behavior of any trajectory type across any length of time in the aggregate by observing a specific Vector (the collection of trajectories and their associated magnitudes across 'x" number of bars data).

Trajectories and Vectors form the basis for everything within the system. Basically, I've taken market data and broken it down to its most relevant components with the attempt to try to better understand the behavior of price over time. This analysis takes you inside each bar of data and explores all of its relevant OHLC relationships across the data set in question.

There are an infinite number of Trajectories yet to be discovered and explored. No one that I know of studies market data this way. Everyone else is studying moving averages of Whole Data Points. I'm exploring the world of data that exists between those data points. Therein resides the differential between Trajectory based Technical Analysis (as I have created it) and conventional technical analysis.

If you find someone else who does this, please let me know. I've been searching for that Quant for years.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #151
  • Jul 30, 2014 5:29pm Jul 30, 2014 5:29pm
Quoting Rand Yap
Is the fall line considered void to you when it is touched inside the box?
Good question. After the last extreme point as been established (either the Highest High or the Lowest Low, depending on the configuration of the box), there is no better condition for B2i because the market has yet to revisit the Fall Line level and that gives the Fall Line a unique quality for not having yet been revisited. So, if there is no internal touch, then that B2i is optimal.

If there is an internal touch, my study of history has caused me to insert a rule that reduces the probability for returning to the Fall Line. It does not cancel the Fall Line, but it does devalue the Fall Line to some extent - which is logically driven and based on the historicity of similar conditions.

I have created a function within the B2i Module that essentially monitors internal regression on the Fall Line and keep track of those statistics within the system. That's how I implement a reduction factor on the probability for a return to the Fall Line. History has shown that internal strikes do matter. Therefore, to be thorough, I must account for them and augment the final signal in some fashion that is appropriate. It is a balancing act, no different than any other multi-signal system optimization task.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #152
  • Jul 30, 2014 5:38pm Jul 30, 2014 5:38pm
Quoting iDoubleStoch
{quote} Good question. After the last extreme point as been established (either the Highest High or the Lowest Low, depending on the configuration of the box), there is no better condition for B2i because the market has yet to revisit the Fall Line level and that gives the Fall Line a unique quality for not having yet been revisited. So, if there is no internal touch, then that B2i is optimal. If there is an internal touch, my study of history has caused me to insert a rule that reduces the probability for returning to the Fall Line.[/highlight]...
Good evening iDoublestoch,
In this scenario might the odds be restrengthened satisfactorily by executing the diagonal fall line?
It's all about bucks, kid. The rest is conversation.
  • #153
  • Jul 30, 2014 5:39pm Jul 30, 2014 5:39pm
Quoting Lalu
... Here’s one I made earlier - a 12 hour box using a 5 minute chart. I hope that I’ve drawn it correctly. Kind regards edit. added the 24 hour box.
Hello Lalu,

No problem and thanks!

Just place your Starting point on an Open price. It looks like that's the only thing missing. Yours are Hybrid B2i. That's fine. Also explore the Sloped Target Line by using the Diagonal Fall Line in a post by another trader in this thread and also shown in my follow-up post to him. You also want to try to place the B2i into a good Market Phase frame of reference. So, I would suggest also plotting a good long range directional bias indicator on the chart as well.

Remember, B2i is a Non-Directional Projection. Thus, it may or may not provide a Fall Line that is in the same direction as the directional bias in the market (what other people call the "trend"). So, you want to know the directional differential between a move to the Fall Line and a move in-line with long range directional bias.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #154
  • Jul 30, 2014 5:43pm Jul 30, 2014 5:43pm
Quoting Baillie
{quote} I have been using weekly, 3 day, 24 hr boxes with a volume strategy to pin point entry, I am also using a 300 EMA and 150 EMA, 3 trades this week 3 wins. Wrong pic, shows 3 day now.
Yes, you can get as creative as you want on the time frames used with B2i. Just remember the bigger the frame of reference, the more time might be involved in the trade. I've been using a lot of H1 B2i on M1 charts just so that things happen more quickly for the benefit of showing you guys what's taking place - without having to wait days.

Good job!
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #155
  • Jul 30, 2014 5:47pm Jul 30, 2014 5:47pm
Quoting Lalu
{quote} Good evening iDoublestoch, In this scenario might the odds be restrengthened satisfactorily by executing the diagonal fall line?

Yes - I posted a response to this on page 8. The Sloped Target line by definition runs at an angle to the Horizontal Target line. However, it is a Regressive Target Line. That means that the Value of the trade decreases with Time, by definition. It increase the possibility for a successful outcome, but it reduces net profits. There is no free lunch in trading! To gain one thing, you typically find yourself giving up something else. Such trade-offs are well worth it, when you are dealing with B2i of significant size.
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #156
  • Edited 6:51pm Jul 30, 2014 6:30pm | Edited 6:51pm
I'm attempting to use the hybrid b2i's to add strength to the Harmonic pattern and vice versa.
I'd also like to add that in no way do I mean to disrespect your work here by playing around with it like this I'm merely trying to understand it since it's so intriguing. So I hope you don't mind.

kind regards


Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Screenshot1.png Size: 114 KB
It's all about bucks, kid. The rest is conversation.
  • #157
  • Jul 30, 2014 7:14pm Jul 30, 2014 7:14pm
Quoting iDoubleStoch
{quote} Yes, you can get as creative as you want on the time frames used with B2i. Just remember the bigger the frame of reference, the more time might be involved in the trade. I've been using a lot of H1 B2i on M1 charts just so that things happen more quickly for the benefit of showing you guys what's taking place - without having to wait days. Good job!
Got it, Thanks!
  • #158
  • Jul 30, 2014 7:41pm Jul 30, 2014 7:41pm
By now, the "How Do I" about B2i should be understood. So, I will now move to some other fundamentals that I have not covered.

A GBPUSD 3hr B2i:
http://i60.tinypic.com/nysgvr.jpg

Notice the Fall Line. This is the inverse of what I posted about earlier today and what another member of the forum brought to your attention yesterday. The Sloped Target line. As you can see, depending on the configuration of the B2i, using the Sloped Target line can either:

- (A) Reduce Risk, Reduce Net Profit Potential and Increase Probability (Negative Slope Target)
- (B) Increase Risk, Increase Net Profit Potential and Decrease Probability (Positive Slope Target)

The difference can be visualized in the slope itself. In the earlier instance, the Fall Line angled toward current price. In this example, the Fall Line angles away from price. Both Slope off-sets offer different advantages and disadvantages.

When do you take one over the other? When there is support in the long range directional bias relative to the B2i trade signal. If you have a logical reason for expecting follow through on price beyond the horizontal Fall Line when the Positive Slope Fall Line is available, then using it is warranted. If you have no logical expectation for follow through then using either the Negative Slope Target or standard Horizontal Fall Line is warranted. That is a good logical approach to using the three (3) different Fall Lines.

Fall Line Types

- Neutral Slope Horizontal Fall Line
- Negative Slope Target Fall Line (A above)
- Positive Slope Target Fall Line (B above)
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #159
  • Jul 30, 2014 7:59pm Jul 30, 2014 7:59pm
Quoting Lalu
I'm attempting to use the hybrid b2i's to add strength to the Harmonic pattern and vice versa.
Ah, I see. So, you are one of the "Thinkers" here on ForexFactory! You don't mind using your head creatively which is one of the hallmarks of someone who will ultimately improve their trading results long term. I like people who play around with ideas creatively. Coupling creative concepts is what leads to innovation.

Quoting Lalu
I'd also like to add that in no way do I mean to disrespect your work here by playing around with it like this I'm merely trying to understand it since it's so intriguing. So I hope you don't mind. kind regards.
This is WHY I am here once a year. To get people out of their conventional mindset and start looking at other possibilities that they can create on their own, which might give them an exceptional edge in their trading. Creative thought never hurt anyone. It is the closed-minded "traders" who drive me up the wall sometimes. They have a hard time seeing the forest for the trees.

I find it interesting that this particular 3hr B2i that I just drew has a Positive Slope Target Fall Line that runs into the "D" area. Right now, the Standard Neutral Fall Line is putting up some resistance on the M5 chart:

http://i62.tinypic.com/2rze9lx.jpg
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
  • #160
  • Edited 11:26pm Jul 30, 2014 9:06pm | Edited 11:26pm

GENERAL NOTE TO ALL


Thanks for the private messages, folks. I don't want to start responding to them all because I won't ever get to post here in the thread if I do. But, I did read the messages and I hope that I have either answered all your questions in this thread, or I hope to get around to answering all your questions eventually.

Thanks for the kinds words and for supporting creative thought on ForeFactory. I appreciate the positive nature of all your messages, I just don't want to get trapped into PM world, as it is very easy to do on trading forums. I'm sure you understand. If you have questions, don't worry about posting them inside the thread. I'll try to reply shortly.

When I leave, you can use this thread to continue the discussion by adding ideas of your own to what has already been presented here. The key here is not to show you a Holy Grail Indicator, but to get you outside of conventional thinking and conventional assumptions about market behavior, so that you can start developing custom indicators of your own - with your own Special Sauce.

That has always been my goal over the years - to get traders out of their own way. Be Creative!
F-X-C-M | A Classic Retail Bucket Shop Scam Artist Who Manipulates Prices
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