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Is anyone here an institutional trader?

  • #501
  • Jul 17, 2014 7:05am Jul 17, 2014 7:05am
Jacob, Skenobi answered but I have to ask you too..do you trade Futures and what is your take on it vs spot Forex...are they better or worse in terms of making money daytrading? (because of the ability to see depth of market)
  • #502
  • Jul 17, 2014 5:48pm Jul 17, 2014 5:48pm
Quoting yaed
{quote} It is some very interesting information that you and Skenobi is relating here. From a psychological and fysiological perspective i think to work with something like that for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week is about enough. More then so is truely detrimental to physique and mental processis. Meaning to work that much as you did makes you a worse and worse trader. Of course you learn more and more and just hope your learning curve can compensate for your worsening physical and mental condition. I see, based on this information, just as i thought...
What did you just smoked???
  • #503
  • Edited Jul 18, 2014 3:45am Jul 17, 2014 11:42pm | Edited Jul 18, 2014 3:45am
Quoting FlashCall
{quote} What did you just smoked???
Long time since we saw any charts from you. Did you stop trading? If so, how come? About your question: Only the best
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #504
  • Jul 18, 2014 12:13am Jul 18, 2014 12:13am
I thought I should post this "news article Jul 16, 2014"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...eir-peril.html

It seem a few former shark want to help some "poor loser retailers here in forex factory".

Sometime it's best to keep the secret to yourself.


You know what they say:
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
  • #505
  • Jul 20, 2014 3:36pm Jul 20, 2014 3:36pm
Quoting yaed
{quote} Long time since we saw any charts from you. Did you stop trading? If so, how come?
Nope I did not...
  • #506
  • Jul 20, 2014 7:40pm Jul 20, 2014 7:40pm
Hi Skenobi & JacobFordFX,
What is it that you have (as an institutional trader) that you no longer posses now (as a retail trader)?
Something you consider as an edge

I mean it could be something like tools, ability to view order flow,etc. etc.
i worshipped... Momentum
  • #507
  • Edited 8:06pm Jul 20, 2014 7:55pm | Edited 8:06pm
Quoting rockrobb
Hi Skenobi & JacobFordFX, What is it that you have (as an institutional trader) that you no longer posses now (as a retail trader)? Something you consider as an edge I mean it could be something like tools, ability to view order flow,etc. etc.
*checking pockets for my edge*

Nope... my edge hasn't gone missing... it's still there.

And btw, I would not consider the "ability to view order flow" as an edge. More of a crutch, to be honest.

In any case, "the ability to view order flow" does not necessarily translate into the "ability to make money from order flow".

(To any who asks, no I will not explain myself on those last points. I think I've already explained enough in the earlier posts of this thread, if I'm not mistaken.)
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #508
  • Jul 20, 2014 8:33pm Jul 20, 2014 8:33pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} *checking pockets for my edge* Nope... my edge hasn't gone missing... it's still there. And btw, I would not consider the "ability to view order flow" as an edge. More of a crutch, to be honest. In any case, "the ability to view order flow" does not necessarily translate into the "ability to make money from order flow". (To any who asks, no I will not explain myself on those last points. I think I've already explained enough in the earlier posts of this thread, if I'm not mistaken.)
ThnQ for answering my question
So ... in general, do you think institutional and retail trader have a fifty-fifty chance to succeed?
i worshipped... Momentum
  • #509
  • Jul 20, 2014 8:58pm Jul 20, 2014 8:58pm
Quoting rockrobb
{quote} ThnQ for answering my question So ... in general, do you think institutional and retail trader have a fifty-fifty chance to succeed?
Given an edge that "works" solely for a given trader, that trader would surely have better than even odds of succeeding REGARDLESS of whether he was institutional or retail.

And I'm talking about REAL trading... none of that nancy-boy institutional market-making nonsense.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #510
  • Edited 10:50pm Jul 20, 2014 9:07pm | Edited 10:50pm
Quoting skenobi
I can approach that question from a few different angles. To save time, give me your own points why you want to become one, and I will shoot down each point one by one.
lol Skenobi, I don't even know you, but I already like you.

I just saw this post, and I know it's a little outdated, but I found this to be very, very funny (and yet true)

I have tried my hand at professional trading (daytrading, prop firm, to be specific), not exactly market making or creating the spreads, but REAL trading.

And as you have suggested, it is NOT easy, and it is NOT for everyone!

But then again, I am almost too aggressive to the extent that it hurts me almost every time... lol. Can you say greed, or what?!

Still, after all these years (I dunno, 5'ish, maybe?)... I still have a lot to learn.

But do not be mistaken. I am determined to succeed and I will do so eventually. Never quit, don't tolerate BS or be bullied, and learn, learn, learn, as much as you can. Knowledge is power, my friends!

Unfortunately I am no longer a daytrader, but I learned a lot from it, sharpened my skills and technical strategy, and would like to return to it as soon as my FX trading becomes a bit more stable.

Of course, your comments Skenobi would be very welcomed.
Please check out my blog at https://from-zero-to-hero . net
  • #511
  • Edited 10:57pm Jul 20, 2014 9:18pm | Edited 10:57pm
Quoting skenobi
*checking pockets for my edge* Nope... my edge hasn't gone missing... it's still there. And btw, I would not consider the "ability to view order flow" as an edge. More of a crutch, to be honest. In any case, "the ability to view order flow" does not necessarily translate into the "ability to make money from order flow". (To any who asks, no I will not explain myself on those last points. I think I've already explained enough in the earlier posts of this thread, if I'm not mistaken.)
Understood, and I couldn't agree with you more.

I know how to read order flow, but I can't make money from it. I'd rather trade the technicals.

But then again, the top traders at my old prop firm were stellar tape readers and relied on it solely. I don't know how, exactly... you need to be able to process information VERY fast.

And I always thought that I could... but apparently, I'm still not fast enough... at least yet.

But making money studying order flow CAN be done. It's just very hard, imho.

Anyways, these guys were all-stars. Tape reading ONLY, find the held bids and offers, go long or short accordingly, and be OUT about 5 minutes later with an easy $0.50/share, maybe 20k shares average. These guys made millions each year and that is trading very modestly.

I can only hope to get to that point someday.

Thank you, and I am very much looking forward to your response, Skenobi!
Please check out my blog at https://from-zero-to-hero . net
  • #512
  • Jul 20, 2014 11:07pm Jul 20, 2014 11:07pm
Quoting skenobi
So you want to be an institutional trader because you want to make a lot of money. Money from what? From trading? From management fees? The Banks won't give you that expensive office chair, a phone bank, some squawk boxes and a Bloomberg terminal and pay you big money bonuses for nothing. You have to PERFORM, and if you don't perform, you get fired. The only way to make money from trading FX for an employer Bank is from the bonuses. You earn the big money bonuses by making sure you exceed your annual profit-taking targets. These targets increase...
Again, just read this... I think I love you, Skenobi

This man speaks the truth, and seems to be very honest and nice. I would listen to him if you are considering a career in trading/daytrading/gambling lol (like me)/investing/management/prop firms/whatever, because I know and I agree with him, and I have been doing it for 5 years and still trying to make it work.

I am now very anxious as to what he will say about my personal history with trading

The one thing you MUST not tell me, though (I will warn you): is to give up.

I do not say this often, or ever, but God Bless you sir.
Please check out my blog at https://from-zero-to-hero . net
  • #513
  • Jul 21, 2014 8:36am Jul 21, 2014 8:36am
Quoting smash1820
Thank you, and I am very much looking forward to your response, Skenobi!
Not really sure what kind of response you're expecting from me.

I'm afraid I don't (or no longer) provide feedback on the following:
1. other people's career choices in life, or career progression,
2. other people's trading methods,
3. other people's Systems threads on Forex Factory,
4. (this list is non-exhaustive)....

Over the years, I've been asked the above topics privately many times by FF members who will go ahead and continue to do their own thing anyway regardless of my feedback (and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that).

I also don't...:
1. teach an edge,
2. coach,

Interestingly, none of the junior Bank traders (now seasoned traders in their own right) I developed in the past had traded the same way as me. Even I don't trade the same way as my past mentors.

Long story short: I'm just tired, that's all. I only hang around the FF forums to vent some steam, with a secondary objective of sometimes learning new trading insights from non-institutional types who are uncorrupted by bad institutional trading habits.

What I CAN say forms the common underlying theme of my feedback: If you're continually losing more money than you're making, time to do somethin' else.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #514
  • Jul 21, 2014 11:02am Jul 21, 2014 11:02am
OR start an OPM ....
  • #515
  • Jul 29, 2014 7:12pm Jul 29, 2014 7:12pm
Quoting smash1820
{quote} Understood, and I couldn't agree with you more. I know how to read order flow, but I can't make money from it. I'd rather trade the technicals. But then again, the top traders at my old prop firm were stellar tape readers and relied on it solely. I don't know how, exactly... you need to be able to process information VERY fast. And I always thought that I could... but apparently, I'm still not fast enough... at least yet. But making money studying order flow CAN be done. It's just very hard, imho. Anyways, these guys were all-stars. Tape...
Interesting point about order flow ... . I don't have access to order flow and, frankly, don't want to. I know that some traders no doubt can process the info efficiently on a real time basis and use it for short-term trading techniques that get them in and out of the market in the New York a.m. with money in their pockets, but that requires a skill set, mental acuity, and nimbleness that just isn't present in this brain of mine.

I can only imagine that it is some kind of frantic, hyper-caffeinated trading process that would blow my heart out of my chest in short order ... .
Fireworks are fun ... as long as you don't blow your fingers off.
  • #516
  • Aug 3, 2014 5:24pm Aug 3, 2014 5:24pm
Love this thread

A question to the Institutional traders, now turned home retail traders and all others.

When trading as a retail trader from home, and entering multi cars on the ES and the russell2000 TF futures (100 lots, just wishing one day)
how do you reduce latency and slippage from a regular high seed cable internet connection and retail platform? (NinjaTrader) Do you rent a co-location VPS CPU server inside the CME in Aurora or Equinix buildings ?

In others words, how can the retail home trader get an slight advantage in regards to latency and slippage. And is it even possible to intra day trade from another country ?

Thanks
  • #517
  • Aug 6, 2014 4:43am Aug 6, 2014 4:43am
Hi all

just to let you know ( see my posts in may) that i am still short and that 65% of retails are long( look bottom home page here) .
Isn't that the holy grail i was talking about ??

Ok it goes slow and boring but down More than 350 pips, that's in the basket so far .
My target is way lower but have now a stop in huge positive territory
  • #518
  • Aug 14, 2014 1:24pm Aug 14, 2014 1:24pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} . A mentor will seek you out if he sees fit to take you on. Don't expect to be trained from scratch if you don't already have talent built-in. Read "Liar's Poker". The trading floor environment described in the book is annoyingly similar. {quote}
Just finished watching "Spartacus" three seasons in a week.
.
  • #519
  • Aug 14, 2014 4:41pm Aug 14, 2014 4:41pm
Quoting nasir.khan
{quote} Just finished watching "Spartacus" three seasons in a week. .
Why?
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #520
  • Aug 15, 2014 7:42am Aug 15, 2014 7:42am
Hi Skenobi & JacobFordFX,

Here are my questions:
1. Do you think having only statistical edge is enough for a trader to trade consistently profitable? (exclude money management and psychology of course, I am strictly talking about trading signal)
2. Do you apply diversification (in order to reduce max drawdown) in your career as a non institutional trade now?

Thanks for your attention.
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