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The Hat Trading Method

  • #1
  • First Post: Jul 19, 2006 10:53pm Jul 19, 2006 10:53pm
Cobra,

I use to agree with you.. Use to.

QUESTION:

If someone posts a question, and it is answered 4 times in the same thread, is a a stupid question? YES IT IS.


Quote
If you can't stand the stupid questions , then do not post here. It is really that simple. Keep your stuff to yourself if you find it hard to share. Trading will continue, with or without you...

Thank you for the great advice. I have deleted the The HAT Trading System as per your advice. This will alleviate tensions all around. I now see that it is my fault that people post questions that are answered already. I will officially keep all stuff to myself.

My apologies if I have stepped on some toes. It won't happen again.

ORIGINAL HAT THREAD, WILL BE DELETED.
google:
  • #2
  • Jul 19, 2006 11:08pm Jul 19, 2006 11:08pm
TwoBlink,

I'm with you. This is a great forum. But, members have to do their part. I'm seeing a lot of shortcuts trying to be taken by newbies. You are not going to become successful by taking shortcuts. Think of a lot of the traders on this forum where you just know they're successful. How many of those guys are really sharing their tips and insights? Honestly, I'm hesitant to do so, for a number of reasons. Including the fact that if I do start a thread, I'm going to, inevitably, have to answer the same question over, and over, and over again.

Truth is, there are dumb questions. If you go into a college class and ask a question answered in your previous night's reading assignment, you are going to look like an idiot.

I also kind of like the idea of having private forums - by invitation only. If you find someone failing to contribute or slowing things down, you can boot them out. I'd probably be willing to share more information in that environment than an open forum. The trouble is, the people you want in there are probably already successful using their own strategies, so, who knows whether or not people will really participate.

Regards,

stockwet
  • #3
  • Jul 20, 2006 9:32am Jul 20, 2006 9:32am
TB:

May I suggest you just ignore the questions you find offensive or stupid ?

And save your energy and thoughts for better things.

I for one have enjoyed and learned a lot from following your threads and the ideas therein. I am not at the level that I can contribute to your threads, so I usually lurk silently rather than contributing garbage. I do appreciate your contributions and generosity in sharing. I believe there are many members of this forum, if not the majority, who read and follow your threads that share my sentiment.

I do hope you will continue to post your ideas and evolution of ideas in this or other public forum.

Thanks again.
  • #4
  • Jul 20, 2006 10:15am Jul 20, 2006 10:15am
Quoting Pipmeister
TB:

May I suggest you just ignore the questions you find offensive or stupid ?

And save your energy and thoughts for better things.

I for one have enjoyed and learned a lot from following your threads and the ideas therein. I am not at the level that I can contribute to your threads, so I usually lurk silently rather than contributing garbage. I do appreciate your contributions and generosity in sharing. I believe there are many members of this forum, if not the majority, who read and follow your threads that share my sentiment.

I do hope you will continue to post your ideas and evolution of ideas in this or other public forum.

Thanks again.
Hear, hear.!! From another appreciative lurker
Peter
  • #5
  • Jul 20, 2006 10:23am Jul 20, 2006 10:23am
twoblink I have to agree with pipmeister, I have really appreciated all your hard work and input.

just ignore the stupidity.
Same Whore .... Different Dress
  • #6
  • Jul 20, 2006 11:20am Jul 20, 2006 11:20am
Quoting stockwet
TwoBlink,

I'm with you. This is a great forum. But, members have to do their part. I'm seeing a lot of shortcuts trying to be taken by newbies. You are not going to become successful by taking shortcuts. Think of a lot of the traders on this forum where you just know they're successful. How many of those guys are really sharing their tips and insights? Honestly, I'm hesitant to do so, for a number of reasons. Including the fact that if I do start a thread, I'm going to, inevitably, have to answer the same question over, and over, and over again.

Truth is, there are dumb questions. If you go into a college class and ask a question answered in your previous night's reading assignment, you are going to look like an idiot.

I also kind of like the idea of having private forums - by invitation only. If you find someone failing to contribute or slowing things down, you can boot them out. I'd probably be willing to share more information in that environment than an open forum. The trouble is, the people you want in there are probably already successful using their own strategies, so, who knows whether or not people will really participate.

Regards,

stockwet
Hi stockwet
The idea of a PF is OK but who gets invited? I know I wouldn't be where I am today without guys like yourself, twoblink and many others.
I have to agree, even as a newbie, that it gets annoying seeing dozens of new threads and posts complaining about this and that broker, demands for the 'Holy Grail' from all the experienced guys, requests for the sort of basic info that can be 'googled' quite easily.
I think the problem is that the word is getting round that a fortune can be made on Forex and the band-wagon travellers are trying to jump on board.
I got suckered into Forex with some software that promised to 'tell' me when to buy and sell. Once I cancelled the subscription I then started my own research, I stood back and tried to learn from all the sections of the forum without asking too many stupid questions.
It's inevitable that the lazy will see what's on here and hope to profit, but how do you keep them out and maintain a free forum?
Please don't exclude me if you do think of an invite-only forum, I'll read and only ask for help if I can't find my own answers.
Peter
  • #7
  • Jul 20, 2006 11:34am Jul 20, 2006 11:34am
Hey Peter,

I think Twoblink, myself, and others certainly understand what traders at various stages, particularly newer ones, go through. I still have my own demons to work out. I don't think this is an issue of sharing information or, rather, not wanting to share information. Rather, it's an issue of eliminating the negative impact of those traders who are unwilling to do their own research and work to understand an issue. For instance, I was reading through the Phoenix thread. There was a trader there that kept asking about what timezone the EA used and what timezone the creator was in. That issue had been addressed not only in the thread, but also in the trading manual that was in one of the first posts on the thread. I can give you countless examples. It's exhausting to see not only repetitive questions come up within a thread, but also, repetitive threads come up in the forum itself. Realistically, there isn't a lot of original content created on the forum simply because so many traders find it easier to post what they think is a new question rather than do a search through the archives. Or, even worse, they ask the same questions in a thread because they read the last couple of pages, but not the entire thread. I think these are the people that we're referring to.

The solution of just ignoring them is an easy thing to say, but a harder thing to do. The reason is that if you start a thread and then have all of these repetitive questions, then, you still have to spend the time and effort going through to read all of these posts. If you ignore them, well, guess what? The user goes and posts his question again and again until he gets an answer.

I'm hoping that more people who come to this forum and provide real value. To do that, new users need to spend a bit of time getting up to speed. I worry that the threads here will become much like the bunnygirl thread at strategybuilderfx where there are over 3400 responses, but, only about 10% of those, or less, are actually original insights. The rest is fluff. How much time do you think it takes someone to read through that?

Anyway, that's kind of how I feel about it. I want to help and give back, but, I have expectations - maybe too high of expectations - about what people should do before posting to a thread.

Regards,

stockwet
  • #8
  • Edited 12:01pm Jul 20, 2006 11:47am | Edited 12:01pm
Stock, I agree with you. It is very difficult to take the time to read the same question, muchless answer it... Think of the position I am in. When a person signs up to be a member of the forum, they have to agree to certain rules. There are only three. Well No sooner that they register do they start posting all kinds of links and promotions and referrals. I remove the links and then I am called words a drunk sailor would not use. Their reason is always the same. " I didn't see any rules" They agreed to the rules, or they could not prceed... Well anyway that was a bit of a tangent, but my point is maybe we could see about adding a section onto the registration process that informs new members to read entire threads and to look through the archives first, so they have a better understanding and are able to ask informed questions and give informed comments.

But, like the rules, with certain people it would do no good. Some people are just lazy and nothing can change that...

Scott



Quoting stockwet
Hey Peter,

I think Twoblink, myself, and others certainly understand what traders at various stages, particularly newer ones, go through. I still have my own demons to work out. I don't think this is an issue of sharing information or, rather, not wanting to share information. Rather, it's an issue of eliminating the negative impact of those traders who are unwilling to do their own research and work to understand an issue. For instance, I was reading through the Phoenix thread. There was a trader there that kept asking about what timezone the EA used and what timezone the creator was in. That issue had been addressed not only in the thread, but also in the trading manual that was in one of the first posts on the thread. I can give you countless examples. It's exhausting to see not only repetitive questions come up within a thread, but also, repetitive threads come up in the forum itself. Realistically, there isn't a lot of original content created on the forum simply because so many traders find it easier to post what they think is a new question rather than do a search through the archives. Or, even worse, they ask the same questions in a thread because they read the last couple of pages, but not the entire thread. I think these are the people that we're referring to.

The solution of just ignoring them is an easy thing to say, but a harder thing to do. The reason is that if you start a thread and then have all of these repetitive questions, then, you still have to spend the time and effort going through to read all of these posts. If you ignore them, well, guess what? The user goes and posts his question again and again until he gets an answer.

I'm hoping that more people who come to this forum and provide real value. To do that, new users need to spend a bit of time getting up to speed. I worry that the threads here will become much like the bunnygirl thread at strategybuilderfx where there are over 3400 responses, but, only about 10% of those, or less, are actually original insights. The rest is fluff. How much time do you think it takes someone to read through that?

Anyway, that's kind of how I feel about it. I want to help and give back, but, I have expectations - maybe too high of expectations - about what people should do before posting to a thread.

Regards,

stockwet
  • #9
  • Jul 20, 2006 11:53am Jul 20, 2006 11:53am
Quote
Hey Peter,

I think Twoblink, myself, and others certainly understand what traders at various stages, particularly newer ones, go through. I still have my own demons to work out. I don't think this is an issue of sharing information or, rather, not wanting to share information. Rather, it's an issue of eliminating the negative impact of those traders who are unwilling to do their own research and work to understand an issue.
I think this is a problem that's not going to go away, people just don't want to work at things nowadays. It's the quick fix, instant gratification, demand-led society we live in.

Quote
For instance, I was reading through the Phoenix thread. There was a trader there that kept asking about what timezone the EA used and what timezone the creator was in. That issue had been addressed not only in the thread, but also in the trading manual that was in one of the first posts on the thread. I can give you countless examples. It's exhausting to see not only repetitive questions come up within a thread, but also, repetitive threads come up in the forum itself.
I know what you mean, I tend to be selective of which posts I read now, whereas when I started I spent hours going around the site. Not anymore, I look for certain names, and always check their posts, but ignore the rest.
Quote
Realistically, there isn't a lot of original content created on the forum simply because so many traders find it easier to post what they think is a new question rather than do a search through the archives. Or, even worse, they ask the same questions in a thread because they read the last couple of pages, but not the entire thread. I think these are the people that we're referring to.
Agreed

Quote
......
I'm hoping that more people who come to this forum and provide real value. To do that, new users need to spend a bit of time getting up to speed. I worry that the threads here will become much like the bunnygirl thread at strategybuilderfx where there are over 3400 responses, but, only about 10% of those, or less, are actually original insights. The rest is fluff. How much time do you think it takes someone to read through that?
I don't think their mentality is based on getting up to speed, they want to take, and they want it now!


Quote
Anyway, that's kind of how I feel about it. I want to help and give back, but, I have expectations - maybe too high of expectations - about what people should do before posting to a thread.

Regards,

stockwet
High expectations are a GOOD thing, don't let a sense of duty to the forum get you down, you don't owe anyone anything. Any advice you received in the early was given without a thought of reward, and I know you've given back using the same ethos.
After most of these wasters have blown their budgets perhaps the word will get around that Forex is no easy thing.

Pete
  • #10
  • Jul 20, 2006 12:02pm Jul 20, 2006 12:02pm
Quoting smjones
Stock, I agree with you. It is very difficult to take the time to read the same question, muchless answer it... Think of the position I am in. When a person signs up to be a member of the forum, they have to agree to certain rules. There are only three. Well No sooner that they register do they start posting all kinds of links and promotions and referrals. I remove the links and then I am called words a drunk sailor would not use. Their reason is always the same. " I didn't see any rules" They agreed to the rules, or they could not prceed... Well anyway that was a bit of a tangent, but my point is maybe we could see about adding a section onto the registration process that informs new members to read entire threads and to look through the archives first, so they have a better understanding and are able to ask informed questions and give informed comments.

Scott
I don't envy your role on the forum. You deal with it more than most.

I was thinking about maybe another idea, too. What about an advanced category on the site that would be limited to individuals that prove their gusto, so to speak? If rules are violated, people can be booted out and back to the basic forums. It could be a goal that newbies aspire to being invited to the forum category through their efforts, study and contribution on the basic forums. Just another thought on how to increase the value of these forums to the more experienced crowd.
  • #11
  • Edited 1:57pm Jul 20, 2006 12:09pm | Edited 1:57pm
Of course what can be a concern there is that the people with the knowledge will not bother to work with those in the basic forums and then it would creat a mini society of have and have nots. How many of those with expeirence would go and answer questions and work with people when alot of this type of stuff would still be going on in the basic forums..

BTW, we already have this type of setup, but those who are lazy just ignore it. It is called the Beginner's Forum It has all the answers there for the beginner, but again those who would be lazy just post in the general discussion forum and ignore any info to be found any where else.

Scott


Quoting stockwet
I don't envy your role on the forum. You deal with it more than most.

I was thinking about maybe another idea, too. What about an advanced category on the site that would be limited to individuals that prove their gusto, so to speak? If rules are violated, people can be booted out and back to the basic forums. It could be a goal that newbies aspire to being invited to the forum category through their efforts, study and contribution on the basic forums. Just another thought on how to increase the value of these forums to the more experienced crowd.
  • #12
  • Jul 20, 2006 2:27pm Jul 20, 2006 2:27pm
Quoting smjones
Of course what can be a concern there is that the people with the knowledge will not bother to work with those in the basic forums and then it would creat a mini society of have and have nots. How many of those with expeirence would go and answer questions and work with people when alot of this type of stuff would still be going on in the basic forums..

BTW, we already have this type of setup, but those who are lazy just ignore it. It is called the Beginner's Forum It has all the answers there for the beginner, but again those who would be lazy just post in the general discussion forum and ignore any info to be found any where else.

Scott
Would it be possible to modify the threads such that a person can not respond to a message until they have "read" through all of the pages preceeding it? Much like the defensive driving sites do today. It's a requirement that each person spend X amount of time on a page before continuing. This would not have to be a requirement of all posts, but an option for people who are looking to share information and are looking for intelligent use of their time. You could set this as a req each time you post a new thread.

I'm fairly certain a decent PHP developer could pull this off. Just hit scriptlance or something and put in a bid for this kind of mod to the forum software.

Jason
  • #13
  • Jul 20, 2006 2:35pm Jul 20, 2006 2:35pm
No, I do not know of such a thing. Really, this is a public forum and in as much I am not really wanting to be punitive... I personally think one has to take the bad with the good. If there are some that would abuse the system, there are many many more who do not and give more than they receive... I would hate to see it become authoritarian. After this last bit of dialog, I think I am convinced that I will keep answering questions as many times as someone wants to ask and I will do my best to be polite and I will just turn the other cheek... So I guess for me, I would keep things as they are... It may not be perfect, but I think people are being served.

One bad apple does not spoil the hole bushel.

Scott




Quoting jlowder
Would it be possible to modify the threads such that a person can not respond to a message until they have "read" through all of the pages preceeding it? Much like the defensive driving sites do today. It's a requirement that each person spend X amount of time on a page before continuing. This would not have to be a requirement of all posts, but an option for people who are looking to share information and are looking for intelligent use of their time. You could set this as a req each time you post a new thread.

I'm fairly certain a decent PHP developer could pull this off. Just hit scriptlance or something and put in a bid for this kind of mod to the forum software.

Jason
  • #14
  • Jul 20, 2006 3:59pm Jul 20, 2006 3:59pm
Quoting smjones
No, I do not know of such a thing. Really, this is a public forum and in as much I am not really wanting to be punitive... I personally think one has to take the bad with the good. If there are some that would abuse the system, there are many many more who do not and give more than they receive... I would hate to see it become authoritarian. After this last bit of dialog, I think I am convinced that I will keep answering questions as many times as someone wants to ask and I will do my best to be polite and I will just turn the other cheek... So I guess for me, I would keep things as they are... It may not be perfect, but I think people are being served.

One bad apple does not spoil the hole bushel.

Scott
I've just spotted your replies to a couple of recent posts and I'm beginning to wonder how long you can last before the men in white coats come for you.
There's a PM on its way.
Peter
  • #15
  • Jul 20, 2006 4:09pm Jul 20, 2006 4:09pm
Naw, I'm good to go. I own an engine business, so this is a walk in the park for me...

LOL Scott


Quoting PeterFM
I've just spotted your replies to a couple of recent posts and I'm beginning to wonder how long you can last before the men in white coats come for you.
There's a PM on its way.
Peter
  • #16
  • Jul 20, 2006 6:33pm Jul 20, 2006 6:33pm
I'm on the train with you guys. I've traded futures/options for several years, made money, lost money...lost more money. But, I think the most important thing that I have learned is patience. Patience to wait for a trade to set up and patience to learn. I've been trading FX for only about three years now. I was doing quite well until Hurricane Ivan came through and left me with some roof damage that my insurance company would not cover. So, liquidate the account, buy a new roof and gradually get back into the swing of things. Patience. I'm only two weeks into MT4, (VT convert) and the first thing I did was download the PDF lesson files that are posted here on FF. Bought a new printer cartridge, brick of paper and had my printer smokin' for a while. There are a few posts on the HAT thread about how to change the T3 to do this or that and it's right there in the manual. If someone doesn't have the patience or willingness to learn how to use or modify the tools given to them how the f#*k are they supposed to learn how to trade? Don't get me wrong, I like to make money in the market and I like to hear about other people making money in the markets but I don't believe in just handing something to someone without them doing some of their own work either. Twoblink: rip the market a new one for us all.

Knowledge is King
  • #17
  • Jul 20, 2006 8:33pm Jul 20, 2006 8:33pm
Here's the problem.

Let's say there is a good thread, we'll call it Thread A.

Now let's say thread A gets 3000 stupid questions. And 20 good responses. I'm sorry, I don't have the time nor the energy to sift through all that.

"Do you have that for MT4?"

"What's a Moving Average?"

"Can I add Fib lines to them?"

"What's the difference between SMA and EMA??"

When you read 3000+ of these in YOUR thread, in which you are trying to get feedback, it gets tiring REAL FAST.

And if that were just it, that would be fine. But when 2 posts above their post, the question is answered..

Yes, stupid is as stupid does. This is why taxes are high, and pregnancy amongst the uneducated and unemployed is higher than that of those with PH.D's...

But when we are a tolerant society, we actually spur on their stupidity. That's not something I want to do.





You know what the cockroach said to the dinosaur?? "ADAPT OR DIE."


That's what we must for the stupid ones to do. It is not my job to make sure someone who has no chance of succeeding in forex; and hand hold them; all the while, sucking time, energy and resource from me and everybody else who "use to" be productive. Why do I know they won't succeed? Because of their laziness. They are too lazy to even read. Their failure is guaranteed; yet they still pollute everything around them.


Someone sent this to me, I thought it appropriate..

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com...e01959afa34890
google:
  • #18
  • Jul 20, 2006 10:50pm Jul 20, 2006 10:50pm
Hello everyone.
I think the problems of stupid questions can be mitigated if the forum admins. implement some sort of rating system. So we can all rate a post. That way when we read a thread we can select only the posts which has a bigger ratings than others.
  • #19
  • Jul 20, 2006 11:16pm Jul 20, 2006 11:16pm
At the risk of subjecting myself to the tirade of your venom I would just like to say.

2B. You have done tremendous work here and freely shared it. For that you deserve all the credit that can be meted on you.

But, I'm starting to get the impression that your work is not about educating others, or passing info back, as much as it is about finding someone who 'You Feel' is smarter than you to tell you where you are going wrong or how to improve it.

Personally I still use one of my first concepts of the market I had close to 20 years ago. If I had asked a proclaimed expert's opinion [there really was no one to ask] and been told that it was a stupid question, who knows what I would be doing today.

I know and agree that you shouldn't be wasting time repeating answers or even modifiying a previous answer to fit the current version of a repeated question, But, leave that stuff to your students. They will point the ignorant to the right post. The ignorant will either read it and respond with thanks, or, at least, stop asking repeat questions.

Your probably a bit pi$$ed at me for saying this and that's ok. It's not about ego. It's about the knowledge base & how we share it.

  • #20
  • Jul 20, 2006 11:21pm Jul 20, 2006 11:21pm
Quoting jfernandogg
Hello everyone.
I think the problems of stupid questions can be mitigated if the forum admins. implement some sort of rating system. So we can all rate a post. That way when we read a thread we can select only the posts which has a bigger ratings than others.
Good idea in theory but do you really want to wait until a mod has rated a post before you can read it? Or choose to?
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