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Forex - trade your way to millions

  • #21
  • Jul 2, 2014 3:19pm Jul 2, 2014 3:19pm
Quoting fxjorr
{quote} that's sound intetersting, can you recommend some good trade mannager EA?
As a trade manager i'm using Ivoe and sometimes Visual Order Editor
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 lvoe 1.6.1.mq4   16 KB | 401 downloads
Aggressive, High Risk, High Gain, High Accuracy
  • #22
  • Jul 2, 2014 3:22pm Jul 2, 2014 3:22pm
Quoting fxjorr
{quote} Hi hanover, Are you still trading with EAs?
No. I stopped using EAs when the bugs in MT4 build 600 made them unusable.
  • #23
  • Jul 2, 2014 3:37pm Jul 2, 2014 3:37pm
Quoting xtractalpha
{quote} Hey Hanover, You are misunderstanding me, I didn't tell a strategy is unimportant. I said that a profitable strategy doesn't have to be complicated but can also be really simple. What you said about the banks and institutions is irrelevant for us, because they are trading with a lot more money.
FWIW, I believe that strategy (entries and exits) is the most important part — reasons here.
MM alone will not make you profitable — see PipMeUp's mathematical proof here.
Consistency and discipline are irrelevant if the strategy is unprofitable.

It depends what you mean by "simple". If a system is simple enough to be coded as an EA, then IMO the odds are that it won't be long term profitable. Reasons here.

I agree that banks and institutions have different set of objectives to retail traders.
  • #24
  • Edited 3:57pm Jul 2, 2014 3:56pm | Edited 3:57pm
There definitely are these people making millions by retail trading, but probably doing it differently as you would think ...

99.9% of people entering the world of retail trading have a completely unreal expectations, learn in a wrong way, read wrong books and listen to other people on different internet forums. At the same time they do not realize that those other people have usually the same (or maybe lower) experience than themselves and are actually also seeking help and "perma-right" system. Of course 50% (at least) is claiming to be consistently profitable because of the ego problem, i can only imagine what the true number looks like.

Now ask yourself what is the chance for you to make those millions if you do all the same mistakes everyone else is doing?

Try to understand that being a good trader is not about the "SYSTEM". Obsiously you need to have a rational process on how you make decisions and how you scale your positions, but I do believe that system itself will not make you a good trader in any way. If you want to make a progress and get closer to your goal of making money trading FX, first of all make sure that you perfectly understand why are currencies moving against each other and what are the drivers affecting the price movement.
  • #25
  • Jul 2, 2014 9:18pm Jul 2, 2014 9:18pm
Quoting pretorian1
{quote} As a trade manager i'm using Ivoe and sometimes Visual Order Editor {file}
Thanks I will try it out
  • #26
  • Jul 2, 2014 9:18pm Jul 2, 2014 9:18pm
Quoting hanover
{quote} No. I stopped using EAs when the bugs in MT4 build 600 made them unusable.
I see, I did not know about, what make them unusable?
  • #27
  • Jul 2, 2014 9:33pm Jul 2, 2014 9:33pm
Anything is possible, otherwise why would there be some people who continue to trade for a living. It's about finding the edge.
  • #28
  • Jul 2, 2014 10:39pm Jul 2, 2014 10:39pm
Quoting fxjorr
{quote} I see, I did not know about, what make them unusable?
EAs and indicators compiled in earlier builds than 600 do not compile unless they are recoded. That's because build 600 incorporates a different programming language that is not compatible with earlier builds.

If you click on the thread link in my previous post, you can read about some of the problems people have been experiencing.
  • #29
  • Jul 3, 2014 6:04am Jul 3, 2014 6:04am
Quoting katrooo
There definitely are these people making millions by retail trading, but probably doing it differently as you would think ... 99.9% of people entering the world of retail trading have a completely unreal expectations, learn in a wrong way, read wrong books and listen to other people on different internet forums. At the same time they do not realize that those other people have usually the same (or maybe lower) experience than themselves and are actually also seeking help and "perma-right" system. Of course 50% (at least) is claiming to be consistently...
There is an old rule: "trust but verify". If you learn, read or watch something check it our before you start using it. I would never call myself "constantly-money-making trader" -> I mean i never have the same or similar results each month, it's always different. But i don't care about it, cause that's the point in trading. Winning more than losing. And doing THIS constantly.
Personally I do not have a "system", it's rather kind of trading style, but never "system" that has a strict rules to follow (So you can call it rational decision-making process). And I cannot agree with you it is not important, because it is. But as you said it will not make you good trader if you do not respect another factors like money management, emotions, and just feeling the market and it's moves.
To start being a sucessful, you need to start veryfing everything what you will learn and trying to make it suitable and profitable for you.

Quoting ugeane
Anything is possible, otherwise why would there be some people who continue to trade for a living. It's about finding the edge.
And that's the point.
Learning is not enough. If it had depended from learning only, there would be many more great traders. You also have to feel it. And feel yourself.
Aggressive, High Risk, High Gain, High Accuracy
  • #30
  • Jul 3, 2014 6:44am Jul 3, 2014 6:44am
Yes to become a millionaire in Forex is very much possible. To make good money in Forex you need to have a good strategy,money management and you should stick with this strategy. Control of emotions is also very important to be successful trader.
  • #31
  • Jul 3, 2014 9:09am Jul 3, 2014 9:09am
Quoting davidson333
Yes to become a millionaire in Forex is very much possible. To make good money in Forex you need to have a good strategy,money management and you should stick with this strategy. Control of emotions is also very important to be successful trader.
Yeah but we have a very hard way to reach that target.
  • #32
  • Jul 3, 2014 12:55pm Jul 3, 2014 12:55pm
Quoting hanover
{quote} I no longer write MT4 EAs.
And this is how you can make at least your first million. Manually!
  • #33
  • Jul 3, 2014 2:03pm Jul 3, 2014 2:03pm
The easy answer to your question is Yes / No / Maybe..pick two

Traders do make millions, but they have worked real hard to get to where they are today..as others have stated, it all comes down to knowledge, MM and strategy, with the required discipline. It ain't easy and anyone who claims Fx trading is easy is trying to scam you. So in time, with years of trading experience,, and all of the above,, you do stand a good chance of making millions. The catch, you have to work real hard to get there..that's it.
  • #34
  • Jul 3, 2014 3:28pm Jul 3, 2014 3:28pm
Quoting Forexnuts
The easy answer to your question is Yes / No / Maybe..pick two Traders do make millions, but they have worked real hard to get to where they are today..as others have stated, it all comes down to knowledge, MM and strategy, with the required discipline. It ain't easy and anyone who claims Fx trading is easy is trying to scam you. So in time, with years of trading experience,, and all of the above,, you do stand a good chance of making millions. The catch, you have to work real hard to get there..that's it.
Trading is not easy, but it is not also very hard. If we assume that you have a knowledge, experience, good MM, position management, discipline -> these ones a lot of PROFITABLE traders has got, then why didn't they gain millions ?
My argument: Most traders are afraid to trading with high risk and trading bigger amounts (lets say 100 lots+). They like safety and low stress rather than higher risk and bigger stress. But these two last ones are needed to become a millionaire.
Aggressive, High Risk, High Gain, High Accuracy
  • #35
  • Edited 4:04pm Jul 3, 2014 3:46pm | Edited 4:04pm
Quoting katrooo
Obviously you need to have a rational process on how you make decisions and how you scale your positions, but I do believe that system itself will not make you a good trader in any way. If you want to make a progress and get closer to your goal of making money trading FX, first of all make sure that you perfectly understand why are currencies moving against each other and what are the drivers affecting the price movement.
Agreed.

Suppose, arbitrarily, we were to break trading up into 4 core areas:

#1. Mechanical entry and exit rules.
#2. Market knowledge and nuanced analysis that overrides or adjusts these rules.
#3. MM: position sizing and account/risk management.
#4. Psychology and implementation issues, i.e. personal qualities like emotion, discipline, patience, nerve, self-belief, positive thinking, etc.

An automated trader (EA) nails #1 and #3, and makes #4 irrelevant. Hence, to whatever extent a proficient human/discretionary/manual trader is able to outperform an EA, it demonstrates that #2 is the most important of the four criteria.

I prefer to use words like "strategy" or "methodology" rather than "system". I know it's really nothing more than semantics, and words can mean different things to different people, but to me "strategy" encompasses the elements of both #1 and #2, while a "system" suggests #1 only.

Also, when people talk about "money management" or "MM", I believe it's important to distinguish exits as distinct from #3. That's because I follow the textbooks in basing my exits around technical criteria, hence I include them in #1. For me, MM includes topics like position size, and sizing method (fixed amount, fixed frac, optimal-f, fixed ratio, martingale, etc), but not exits. I see benefits in classifying them in this way. Firstly, we can make direct comparisons between trading and casino games, in the sense that game strategy ("gameplay") is analogous to #1, while staking strategy (MM) is pure math, and can be applied uniformly to both. Another important reason for this classification, is that it can be shown mathematically (proof: here) that system expectancy can not be altered by MM. Consequently, for example, it's not possible to use MM (#3) to 'rescue' a losing strategy (#1 and #2); the trader's 'edge' comes from the efficacy of his entries and exits.

And of course if a strategy (#1 and #2) is impotent, then no amount of psychology (#4) can rescue it, either. Again, I like to make a clear distinction between strategy (#1 and #2) and implementation (#4), because it helps me to assess whether any poor performance is due to the strategy itself being in need to review and possible overhaul, or whether I need to work on my personal psychology.

However, conversely, you could have a winning strategy (#1 and #2), but if you size your positions too aggressively (#3), then an 'unexpected' period of losses could cause irretrievable drawdown. And to whatever extent your implementation (#4) is inconsistent or faulty, then it renders the system (#1 and #2) effectively useless.

Hence ultimately, to be long term profitable, a trader must master all four areas.

I realize that the above breakdown is hypothetical and arbitrary, but I find it helpful in resolving ambiguities in trading discussions, and also in assessing distinct areas of trading performance.
  • #36
  • Jul 3, 2014 6:32pm Jul 3, 2014 6:32pm
hrm... A million dollars from retail trading... Now there is a long term goal.
Doc K
  • #37
  • Jul 4, 2014 1:40am Jul 4, 2014 1:40am
Quoting hanover
{quote} EAs and indicators compiled in earlier builds than 600 do not compile unless they are recoded. That's because build 600 incorporates a different programming language that is not compatible with earlier builds. If you click on the thread link in my previous post, you can read about some of the problems people have been experiencing.
thanks hanover, you are very kind. God bless you to success
  • #38
  • Jul 4, 2014 5:45am Jul 4, 2014 5:45am
Quoting Doc_kirbs
hrm... A million dollars from retail trading... Now there is a long term goal.
What do you mean by "long term" ? 1 year ?
Aggressive, High Risk, High Gain, High Accuracy
  • #39
  • Jul 4, 2014 7:52am Jul 4, 2014 7:52am
Quoting pretorian1
Is there anyone who has made millions or more by trading forex market ? I mean retailers, not banks, institutions or brokers. Do you think it is possible or it is just a dream ?
//----

hey pretorian..... it's just a dream for most......

i feel comfortable saying, even without black and white proof, that there have been at least 2 ff members that have made a million trading forex..... and equally important, both still have that million++.... those 2 members still log in occasionally but have not posted in many years...... i wish they would return but clearly understand why they will not..... neither of them used ea's.....

i also feel comfortable saying there will soon be 1 more, with black and white proof, who does use ea's almost exclusively......

//----

trading to a million is not as easy as most think, while at the same time it is easier than most think..... grains of sand add up......h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #40
  • Jul 4, 2014 12:38pm Jul 4, 2014 12:38pm
Quoting pretorian1
{quote} What do you mean by "long term" ? 1 year ?
30-40 years
Doc K
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