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How much is needed to move the market?

  • #21
  • Jun 28, 2014 11:09pm Jun 28, 2014 11:09pm
Quoting SerenityFX
{quote} I feel honored that people spend so much time thinking about me. And that you have spent the time going through my post history.
Don't flatter yourself too hard. You don't want to injure yourself. It goes without saying that if I've come here for the first time in a few days, click on about 3 threads total, and I've already noticed that you are a whiny little bitch.... well, it seems you should get over yourself and get a hobby, champ.

Nonetheless, enjoy your self-congratulations and continued success on the forum. Go team YOU.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #22
  • Jun 28, 2014 11:12pm Jun 28, 2014 11:12pm
Quoting hanover
About 18 months ago I was privileged to visit the trading room at the Westpac Bank, Auckland (I live in New Zealand). It was around 3pm (NZ time), and one of the dealers was placing a $20 million NZDUSD trade on behalf of a client. He split the amount into four separate $5 million orders, so that he didn’t move price against himself too much. Again, that was $5 million, not $5 trillion. Hence I think it’s a fair assumption that much depends on the pair being traded, and the time of day. And anyway, why wait several hours to obtain amateur opinion...
$5 mill on the kiwi market at a time while the larger players are asleep next to their hookers and coke? That's still a few dollars more than was in my wallet, so I'd still rate that as more than what retail ponies should concern themselves with, especially when playing games in a bucket that never sees the outside world.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #23
  • Jun 28, 2014 11:52pm Jun 28, 2014 11:52pm
Quoting hanover
About 18 months ago I was privileged to visit the trading room at the Westpac Bank, Auckland (I live in New Zealand). It was around 3pm (NZ time), and one of the dealers was placing a $20 million NZDUSD trade on behalf of a client. He split the amount into four separate $5 million orders, so that he didn’t move price against himself too much. Again, that was $5 million, not $5 trillion. Hence I think it’s a fair assumption that much depends on the pair being traded, and the time of day. And anyway, why wait several hours to obtain amateur opinion...
No more than 3% of that 5 trillion is available for retail forex and mostly in the majors...
  • #24
  • Jun 29, 2014 12:01am Jun 29, 2014 12:01am
Quoting hanover
About 18 months ago I was privileged to visit the trading room at the Westpac Bank, Auckland (I live in New Zealand). It was around 3pm (NZ time), and one of the dealers was placing a $20 million NZDUSD trade on behalf of a client. He split the amount into four separate $5 million orders, so that he didn’t move price against himself too much. Again, that was $5 million, not $5 trillion. Hence I think it’s a fair assumption that much depends on the pair being traded, and the time of day. And anyway, why wait several hours to obtain amateur opinion...
This is true, hanover, this is quite true
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #25
  • Edited 12:34am Jun 29, 2014 12:23am | Edited 12:34am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Mingary, how do you know this is BS? This is a true question and not designed to provoke an argument.



Retail forex = 3.5 % of the 5.3 trillion.



"Another highlight of the report was the inclusion of retail data. For the first time, the FX survey included statistics of retail volumes, and measured primary dealer volumes with retail driven counterparties. This volume is primarily liquidity that was being sourced for aggregators targeted for retail order flow. The survey indicated that $185 billion, or 3.5% of the $5.3 trillion, was retail flow. Of the $185 billion, $78 billion was registered as FX spot with a slightly smaller amount ($74 billion) in FX swaps."

http://forexmagnates.com/how-big-is-...-forex-market/

That 6 trillion figure is thrown around all the time by unscrupulous forex marketers to make the muppets in the herd feel a bit dizzy with the prospect of getting a share of it ....
Just to put this into perspective, just ONE stock exchange -- NYSE -- has a daily turn over of 170 billion.
Now, add up all the stock market all over the world .. clearly global retail forex is rather small compared with just the global stock market.

The misinformation is astounding and a blatant attempt to deceive... Before dipping one's toes in Retail Forex one should understand that it is made up of many "marketing machines" built to entice the gullible.
  • #26
  • Jun 29, 2014 12:47am Jun 29, 2014 12:47am
Quoting nubcake
{quote} Any sources to back that up, or do we just have to take your word for it? I've got twenty bux in my wallet and I feel like moving the market. Will that do?


http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...37#post7568437
  • #27
  • Jun 29, 2014 12:54am Jun 29, 2014 12:54am
i had the privilege to demo ICAP /EBS platform and i can tell you on the major's i saw 100 to 300 million in liquidity and 50 to 200 million on the crosses so depends on your prime broker the bigger you are the more liquidity they can show you
  • #28
  • Jun 29, 2014 1:26am Jun 29, 2014 1:26am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...37#post7568437
That still works out to be billions of dollars an hour, then split amongst the market. I'm not saying you need a few trill to make anything happen, but your kidding yourself if you think you'll ever see the type of money required for normal humans to get themselves out of the bucket to start with, let alone actually trade at a level that doesn't get laughed at.

Downplaying the amount required is not being genuine to the enormity of the market. Sure, it's not as huge as some would make it out to be, but that doesn't then make it "small".

Anyway, this shit has been hashed-out before. It's an old topic. We can get into all of the ways the numbers get skewed and shit, but who can be bothered. The question of this thread is purely mental masturbation for most.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #29
  • Jun 29, 2014 1:37am Jun 29, 2014 1:37am
Quoting nubcake
{quote} That still works out to be billions of dollars an hour, then split amongst the market. I'm not saying you need a few trill to make anything happen, but your kidding yourself if you think you'll ever see the type of money required for normal humans to get themselves out of the bucket to start with, let alone actually trade at a level that doesn't get laughed at. Downplaying the amount required is not being genuine to the enormity of the market. Sure, it's not as huge as some would make it out to be, but that doesn't then make it "small"....
I don't see how you can get "billions of dollars an hour" ...
Anyway, that is not important.
What is important is that you never, ever see "the stock market is a 6 trillion dollar a day market", because that would be a lie.

But in forex it's ok to lie about the very nature of this market, ain't it ?
  • #30
  • Jun 29, 2014 2:00am Jun 29, 2014 2:00am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I don't see how you can get "billions of dollars an hour" ... Anyway, that is not important. What is important is that you never, ever see "the stock market is a 6 trillion dollar a day market", because that would be a lie. But in forex it's ok to lie about the very nature of this market, ain't it ?
It's not only ok, it's required. I don't know how I got billions either. I'm well fucking tired, and don't particularly care to double-check my math. The point remains that the answer to this thread is still forever going to be outside of the realm of money that anyone poncing around this place will ever have, ever see, or ever comprehend. It's not small money by any normal person's measure. Hanover's post should shed some blaring spotlights on the obvious.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #31
  • Jun 29, 2014 7:16am Jun 29, 2014 7:16am
Quoting nubcake
{quote} It's not only ok, it's required. I don't know how I got billions either. I'm well fucking tired, and don't particularly care to double-check my math. The point remains that the answer to this thread is still forever going to be outside of the realm of money that anyone poncing around this place will ever have, ever see, or ever comprehend. It's not small money by any normal person's measure. Hanover's post should shed some blaring spotlights on the obvious.
Yes, I agree.
But don't you think it's deceitful to promote retail forex as a 5.3 trillion dollar market a day, when clearly it is not - and far from it - and that is intentionally misleading and a lie?
  • #32
  • Edited 8:56am Jun 29, 2014 8:36am | Edited 8:56am
Quoting nubcake
{quote} Anyway, this shit has been hashed-out before. It's an old topic. We can get into all of the ways the numbers get skewed and shit, but who can be bothered. The question of this thread is purely mental masturbation for most.
Quoting SerenityFX
Why does this question constantly come up? Does the answer contribute to one's trading ability in any way? Does debating semantics ever get tiring?
Do you see the irony between my first post in this thread and the brilliant answer you've come to? I hope you're capable of making the correct conclusion, but I'm not expecting much.

Quoting nubcake
{quote} Enjoy your continued success on the forum. I usually troll people without providing any form of constructive dialogue. I'm not very good at it.
You're too kind.
"Serenity, you sound like a frustrated Canadian living your life in the US"
  • #33
  • Jun 29, 2014 1:31pm Jun 29, 2014 1:31pm
Quoting SerenityFX
{quote} {quote} Do you see the irony between my first post in this thread and the brilliant answer you've come to? I hope you're capable of making the correct conclusion, but I'm not expecting much. {quote} You're too kind.
I'm not being a whiny bitch about it. Suck it up, Princess.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #34
  • Jun 29, 2014 3:28pm Jun 29, 2014 3:28pm
Quoting nubcake
{quote} I'm not being a whiny bitch about it. Suck it up, Princess.
A quote I leave you for self-reflection. Judging by your big boy red flag, I would assume at one point you somehow provided some sort of constructive thought for people on FF. That is obviously no longer the case. All you post is garbage now.

You're a wanna be Magix without the ability to trade or help traders. You're trying to troll but failing miserably. Maybe this will be of some help. Now you can't say "Serenity never helped me." Anyway, congratulations. A perfect candidate for the ignore list.
"Serenity, you sound like a frustrated Canadian living your life in the US"
  • #35
  • Jun 29, 2014 3:39pm Jun 29, 2014 3:39pm
Quoting SerenityFX
{quote} A quote I leave you for self-reflection. Judging by your big boy red flag, I would assume at one point you somehow provided some sort of constructive thought for people on FF. That is obviously no longer the case. All you post is garbage now. You're a wanna be Magix without the ability to trade or help traders. You're trying to troll but failing miserably. Maybe this will be of some help. Now you can't say "Serenity never helped me." Anyway, congratulations. A perfect candidate for the ignore...
And still you continue. I might come back for awhile just to see what sorta silliness you get up to. If I may make a request, please make yourself look even more stupid fairly soon as my time here is limited. Many thanks in advance.

Also, being all butthurt about everyones "red flags" is really unbecoming. Grow up a little, eh?

If you choose to reply then have at it, but otherwise I'll just see how much of a hole you can dig yourself and enjoy the little show.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #36
  • Jun 29, 2014 11:35pm Jun 29, 2014 11:35pm
there's only one answer, get on that level first and see for yourself
  • #37
  • Jul 1, 2014 1:25pm Jul 1, 2014 1:25pm
Quoting SerenityFX
Why does this question constantly come up? Does the answer contribute to one's trading ability in any way? Does debating semantics ever get tiring?
No, not really..and yes, this question along with the other "holy grail" quest threads do the rounds in various forms and the same BS..bleah
  • #38
  • Jul 23, 2014 10:59pm Jul 23, 2014 10:59pm
Quoting pwnpwn
To move EUR/USD how many lots do you need to move the market by lets say 5 pips? if traded during nighttime when liquidity is low it obviously takes less money to move the market but still, i have NO clue how much it would take to move it by 5 pips. 10 Lot, 100, 1000, 10000... ? Of course its always different, but can anybody tell me in which dimension i have to think? thanks
Depends on how many is there already in the market, how big the market is, what is the sentiment, etc

I dont think that anyone other than the market-makers themselves know this information.
"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum
  • #39
  • Jul 25, 2014 7:43am Jul 25, 2014 7:43am
Quoting Proximus
{quote} Depends on how many is there already in the market, how big the market is, what is the sentiment, etc I dont think that anyone other than the market-makers themselves know this information.
Agree with you here.
  • #40
  • Jul 26, 2014 6:49am Jul 26, 2014 6:49am
Agreed..though it would be interesting to get hold of the data..
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