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Is anyone here an institutional trader?

Quoting skenobi
{quote} High/low areas are obvious choices, but some have more "history" than others and therefore likely to be stronger or more significant. Some old school price action guys (myself included) use line charts to give a better picture of this. We don't look at fractals, which are mostly extraneous spikes anyway. {quote} There is no "X pips above/below" rule and it doesn't even have anything to do with the fact that each currency pair is a different animal. It depends on how all market players layer their orders within a zone. And by "orders", I...

Can you explain maybe with some example - if i am not asking too much - what do you mean by fractal and how you use it ?
Thank you for the time you have spent sharing your knowledge
Quoting Trader10826
{quote} Thanks. I would assume fractals is the one mentioned here http://www.investopedia.com/articles...6/fractals.asp?
Yes.

Quoting Trader10826
So fractals is used "within" the major support/resistance levels, as mentioned above, to define the layers of orders placed by various parties in the zone?
As guidelines, yes. Also "feel"-dependent. No way around "feel", I'm afraid.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
Quoting quantrader1
what do you mean by fractal and how you use it ?
Already answered in Trader10826's post before yours.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
Thank you skenobi, JacobFordFX and other current/past institutional traders....
1. My eyes have been opened, all along I thought all institutional traders are properly well trained by the institutes. I was wrong and I think this is very important matter(most many fields they do formerly & properly training to employees except traders?) , Why? Is there a reason they don't train you guys?
2. Do you use Trend line in your analysis apart from support/resistance levels?
3. skenobi & JacobFordFX both of you are not scalping traders and you spend only one hour a day to analyze the setup. May I ask what is your normal working time in that one hour?
4. I am not fundamental guy & I hate to read all the fundies because there are so many things to read. skenobi & JacobFordFX both of you are technical traders but you still read the fundies from Bloomberg & routers.Can I get away just the technical? Any advice?
I hope the above questions are not too much for asking.
Again Thanks for sharing your exertise to us.
Quoting pete.alfa
1. My eyes have been opened, all along I thought all institutional traders are properly well trained by the institutes. I was wrong and I think this is very important matter(most many fields they do formerly & properly training to employees except traders?) , Why? Is there a reason they don't train you guys?
Erm... I wouldn't say they didn't train us. We WERE trained in basic Babypips-level stuff, but at the end of the day, only talent brings in the money. Where I came from, you needed talent (and a close-to-zero propensity to ask stupid questions) to attract the right mentors.

Quoting pete.alfa
2. Do you use Trend line in your analysis apart from support/resistance levels?
I know people who use trendlines and I don't discount the possibility of making money from them. As for myself, I don't use them. If the purpose is to draw attention to "trends", then my eyeballs are pretty good tools on their own. S/R lines, however, are not always obvious.

S/R lines are based on historical fact i.e. prior price activity. You can make the argument that trendlines are the same, but to me, trendlines are more arbitrarily-drawn than S/Rs, and I prefer to reduce arbitrariness as much as possible.

Let me put it this way: If you can get more people to agree on the validity of S/R lines (or zones, as I prefer) than you can on trendlines (because some people will dispute the points you use to make those trendlines), then for sure S/R lines are less arbitrary.

Quoting pete.alfa
3. skenobi & JacobFordFX both of you are not scalping traders and you spend only one hour a day to analyze the setup. May I ask what is your normal working time in that one hour?
I do my setup analysis any hour in the morning (I'm on Singapore/Hong Kong time)... not so much because it "works" or it's the most optimal, but mostly because it's the only time available to me due to my consulting schedule.

Quoting pete.alfa
4. I am not fundamental guy & I hate to read all the fundies because there are so many things to read. skenobi & JacobFordFX both of you are technical traders but you still read the fundies from Bloomberg & routers.Can I get away just the technical? Any advice?
You can get away with just technical, but if you don't take the time to even know when scheduled events come out and how important some events are compared to others (e.g. using FF's Calendar product), then I don't think you will get far.

Don't discount the fundamental guys too much, tho. There ARE talented longer-term fundamental traders out there. We're not all built the same.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
Just curious. How much money will you need when you hunt clustered stops 20 pips away?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Quoting heispark
Just curious. How much money will you need when you hunt clustered stops 20 pips away?
Most times, not much... not even as much as the value of the clustered stops, especially if there are no "standing orders" lurking nearby.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
Quoting skenobi
{quote} Most times, not much... not even as much as the value of the clustered stops, especially if there are no "standing orders" lurking nearby.
Oh, boy... Even a small boy can take my SL whenever he likes!
No wonder I am getting 20 pips SL everyday.....
I knew so-called 'biggest liquidity' of Forex market is bullshit.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Quoting heispark
{quote} Oh, boy... Even a small boy can take my SL whenever he likes! No wonder I am getting 20 pips SL everyday..... I knew so-called 'biggest liquidity' of Forex market is bullshit.
Well, I wouldn't know if it's bullshit or not. YMMV.

Plus, I've always been confused how retail traders define "liquidity".

Where I come from, liquidity does not ENTIRELY mean the ease of orders being filled. To me, liquidity means the ease of getting in and out of positions at current prices.

Irregardless, your sentiment is understood and empathized with, although traders like me are not entirely apologetic.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
Great thread just read it all, i think the landscape is changing STT is more up to date but other IT here have more experience (from what i've read).

I have a bit of experience from all, was a FX trader for a small bank around here for 3 years (we traded a exotic currency our local currency), been in a big retail FX as a technical analyst to send possible trades to customers.

All i can say is that looking at graphs and screens pays a lot, you get a sense of the market (some times you don't and you need to be true to yourself and not trade or trade light then) and go with the trend that helps with luck when you need it

It is amazing to see the real volumes you guys talk around here but the basics stay the same.

As a retail trader most things are myths, plan graphs do the trick, broker (if he doesn't move prices or doesn't fill orders or has a lot of slippage) doesn't really matter is is DMA or not, in the end someone makes or losses money against you.

What you see in bid ask are just the pool of speculators, big banks they only provide liquidity to the side they believe in, you wont see big bid / ask from the same bank.

One question i have is about Retail Brokers moving the market, i know it depends on liquidity but is it posible? in the end true banks have to get filled to mark the price, what is the retail broker does b book?

I'm still in the market working just in between this big mess of brokers
Quoting skenobi
{quote} Yes. {quote} As guidelines, yes. Also "feel"-dependent. No way around "feel", I'm afraid.
Thanks, skenobi.

I often hear that "trend is your friend", but what actually is a trend, and how institutional traders commonly conceptualize trend?

Regards,
A Trader
L-plater forex trader - time and risk management
Hi everyone

I've been away on vacation so I haven't had a chance to reply to this thread. I see Skenobi has answered all your questions and I agree and have had the same or similar experiences, but you want to ask me something specific I'm back
Hi skenobi and JacobFordFX

Now that you are trading your own account, what leverage are you on and would recommend to retail traders? Also, what % returns per year would be considered good yet achievable without overleveraging?
Quoting disarmed
Hi skenobi and JacobFordFX Now that you are trading your own account, what leverage are you on and would recommend to retail traders? Also, what % returns per year would be considered good yet achievable without overleveraging?
I tend to use a lot of leverage 20-30 times when I have positions going my way much less for the non-profitable ones. But my biggest determinant is a scenario where I get stopped out of all my current positions, that $ amount can not exceed 3 pct of my capital. I will adjust my positions (not stops) accordingly.

Those are my guidelines based on the way I like to trade but you need to find out what works for you.
Out of the three basic types of orders available, which do you think you use the most?

1. stop entry
2. limit entry
3. market order
Too close for pips, switching to points.
curious to era the opinion of skenobi and jacobfordfx too, but this remember me what a great trader once told me "give a 1:20 lev account to an educated and disciplined trader and he will make money, give a 1:20 lev account to a rookie and he will lose money; give a 1:500 lev. account to an educated and disciplined trader and he will make money, give a 1:500 lev account to a rookie and he will lose money faster".
leverage is trading tool like any other, used it properly and with reasonability can't hurt you.
Sometime the horizon disappear. Twitter: @_whiteout
From my experience, too much leverage is always against you in the longer run, markets always have "noise" is the noise that will kill you with too much leverage.

As Skenobi and Jacob have said, you need to adjust the position to where the market "says or tells you" the stop should be, and if you are not looking a lot of hours a day at the screen you need to use off market orders, as my understanding limit and stop are the same thing just a way to take a position
Quoting Thepipster
Out of the three basic types of orders available, which do you think you use the most? 1. stop entry 2. limit entry 3. market order
I use market orders when i'm awake, when I want to get in I just get in. I use stop-entry orders overnight to get into positions.

I use limits as well but I have alerts on my phone when price reaches an area where the market may move.
Quoting MetroFX
One question i have is about Retail Brokers moving the market, i know it depends on liquidity but is it posible?
Likely not.

Quoting Trader10826
{quote} Thanks, skenobi. I often hear that "trend is your friend", but what actually is a trend, and how institutional traders commonly conceptualize trend? Regards, A Trader
Never had to answer that question before. For me, trying to define things too closely prevents me from "keeping it simple".

Unless we're in a Trading Systems thread where trend definition is actually important, a trend should be whatever your eyeballs think it is and not as how others define it. So you shouldn't second-guess yourself with other people's opinions.

Quoting disarmed
Hi skenobi and JacobFordFX Now that you are trading your own account, what leverage are you on and would recommend to retail traders? Also, what % returns per year would be considered good yet achievable without overleveraging?
Quoting JacobFordFX
{quote} I tend to use a lot of leverage 20-30 times when I have positions going my way much less for the non-profitable ones. But my biggest determinant is a scenario where I get stopped out of all my current positions, that $ amount can not exceed 3 pct of my capital. I will adjust my positions (not stops) accordingly. Those are my guidelines based on the way I like to trade but you need to find out what works for you.
I support the contention that position-sizing is key. I also think position-sizing is something that cannot generally be taught, is entirely dependent on the individual trader's attitude to risk, and is something the trader has to find out for himself.

"what %returns considered good?" One problem for the retail trader is when he thinks he's missing out on potential profitability when he sees other people supposedly performing better than he does, not realizing that performance is also largely dependent on individual attitudes to risk. Fvck all that. I wouldn't concern myself with other people's benchmarks if I were you. Just build your edge and make your money.

Quoting Thepipster
Out of the three basic types of orders available, which do you think you use the most? 1. stop entry 2. limit entry 3. market order
I use all types, and these days in exactly the same order you listed in terms of frequency and importance.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
Quoting skenobi
{quote} Likely not.
Thats absolutly illogical. You stated banks (you including) run clients' stops, what makes you believe brokers are different from the banks? Well, they might not be as big, and their clients have less cash, but it does not make them saint. And I even think it is regardless of what broker model they use, whether it is market making or stp or ecn, when you see stops and you have capital to move market what do you do? Biggest brokers out there have client deposits in excess of 1 billion US dollars, they do not even have to use leverage to move the market short term. Just my 2 cents.
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