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  • #321
  • Quote
  • Edited 9:52am Jun 23, 2014 9:41am | Edited 9:52am
If you can see that , all those order is in your pocket ... but still ... , now where is my order ?
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  • #322
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 9:52am Jun 23, 2014 9:52am
"This doesn't have anything to do with technical or fundamental analysis - but I bet when the market makes pull up a chart and see three tests of a support or resistance, they'll push price around that area to sweep stops and improve liquidity." (From traderLT).

I hear that a lot, and it makes sense to me, But if you have moving averages all pointing up, and are wondering where to enter, put a pending trade just 10p or so above the next SR line ( the market makers will do their thing, but it will only accelerate the trend going up).

Even better when everything is going down. stoplosses get hit when things go down, and they, (and the market makers) just accelerate things that way.
(Haven't you noticed how things tend to go down faster in the forex than they go up?)

The market maker makes his money by getting you to enter into a trade. If you are already in a trade, How is he going to make more money?

Keep him happy, but make him keep you happy, too...
  • #323
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 9:58am Jun 23, 2014 9:58am
Quoting TraderLT
{quote} Because it's a visual representation of what price has done. Which tells you if the market is being bought or sold more in certain timeframes. This is important information. You could work out everything you need to know without a chart - but it takes a long time and can be confusing. I'd use a chart over downloading spread sheets on Yahoo Finance any day.
How can I make money basing my decisions on something that is already done? Its price. That's it.


Quote
You could work out everything you need to know without a chart
Tell me TLT, could you please define 'everything you need to know'.
rgds
  • #324
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 10:00am Jun 23, 2014 10:00am
Quoting Steamer
If you can see that , all those order is in your pocket ... but still ... , now where is my order ? {image}
Unless you trade size, i don't care where your order is.
You want point of origin not assumptions.
rgds
  • #325
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 10:12am Jun 23, 2014 10:12am
that piccy so detailed ... just learn it recently .... , order cant be track unless by trade size ... wot do i said just now ? unless lp open the book ...
  • #326
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 10:15am Jun 23, 2014 10:15am
Quoting TraderLT;
7554650 Level 2 quotes aren't inside information - they are easily available from data providers.
Level 2 quotes can be more worthless than the actual volume indicator that is stat with a lot of brokers on MT4.

Volume on these, is a visual representation of larger movements by the number of ticks in a single bar. These are an overall market sampling but depending on the broker, are still misleading.

L2, can show where orders are and where they were taken, can even show the size of the order, but when comes down...these are the orders on a single broker.

It's not nite, arca, bats, nasd...is is only the orders participating with the individual broker.

That being said...if you have a broker that offers an L2 feed, you are not swimming in the same shark tank as the general pool of bucket shops...

All the same, 50 mill for support...is only an order...there is no way to track where it will go from there, only that it is an area where somebody really likes price.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #327
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 10:20am Jun 23, 2014 10:20am
Quoting Steamer
that piccy so detailed ... just learn it recently .... , order cant be track unless by trade size ... wot do i said just now ? unless lp open the book ...
How can a price chart give you trade size?
rgds
  • #328
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 10:23am Jun 23, 2014 10:23am
dunno man you write ....

Unless you trade size, i don't care where your order is.
  • #329
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 10:26am Jun 23, 2014 10:26am
Quoting TraderLT
The reason why technical analysis is so popular with the retail trader is because it's all over the internet and pushed by the brokers. Human nature is to try and be sure of things - when you see a trend line ect, that gives you a degree of certainty. What the brokers know is that if they teach all the clients these technical patterns, they know where they can run stops and make a rip.
This is borderline obscene.

The idea, if I am reading correct...that brokers:
1. Push their own ideas of techs, only to run over the people that trade with them
or
2. That they provide information and know where to run over the people that trade with the information provided.

Running stops, I do not question...but by means of technical analysis as the methodology?


Isn't this kind of like saying...the brokers collude on a mass scale to see when the MACD is turning, only to slam with current trend to consume the folk who rely on this as a means of trading?
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #330
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 10:30am Jun 23, 2014 10:30am
How can a price chart give you trade size? The answer is it can't!
For retail to make money he MUST locate size in the market place. He MUST trade prices 'size' trades. Unless of course he is 'size', then he owns the game.
Do you know what size looks like? The answer is you don't. Because you are using a chart.

rgds
  • #331
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 10:37am Jun 23, 2014 10:37am
Quote
L2, can show where orders are and where they were taken, can even show the size of the order, but when comes down...these are the orders on a single broker.

It's not nite, arca, bats, nasd...is is only the orders participating with the individual broker.

Exactly Magix! - You want an independent L2 which shows participants from many large institutions. Working off one broker is a small sample - but I'd argue there is value there. From a sentiment level. I use IG index for spread betting and I love it when they are saying how 90% of client volume is on the short side - because I'm immediately looking for where I might get long on a stop run. This isn't the only thing I'd look at - but it's an extra clue.


For UK shares, you can get an L2 feed directly from the London Stock Exchange (at a cost of course). This will show you all the orders in a stock.

But yeah - you have no indication of where price may go. I use L2 to play short term positions, for example, if a price is consolidating above resistance and holding the bid price - I might get long. If the bids are stacking up at the current price, this is positive for my trade. When the bids begin to fall away, that might be an indication to cut the trade.

That is pretty much my entire trading approach for short term scalping. Just watching the orders on L2 around support/resistance and sticking with the side that is in control.
  • #332
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 10:42am Jun 23, 2014 10:42am
Quoting Magix
{quote} This is borderline obscene. The idea, if I am reading correct...that brokers: 1. Push their own ideas of techs, only to run over the people that trade with them or 2. That they provide information and know where to run over the people that trade with the information provided. Running stops, I do not question...but by means of technical analysis as the methodology? Isn't this kind of like saying...the brokers collude on a mass scale to see when the MACD is turning, only to slam with current trend to consume the folk who rely on this...

Ok yeah maybe that was a bit over the top!

I don't honestly think brokers teach people how to trade a certain way just so they can run them over en mass.

I guess teaching the technical analysis is quick and easy for the brokers and it encourages trading volume.

But yeah, I do think that very obvious technical levels are used as targets for running stops. Eg, 3 tests of a support or resistance.

I don't know this for a fact, but if I was a market maker, I'd consider these type of vanilla chart levels as a target for a sweep.
  • #333
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 10:45am Jun 23, 2014 10:45am
Quoting TraderLT
{quote} Exactly Magix! - You want an independent L2 which shows participants from many large institutions. Working off one broker is a small sample - but I'd argue there is value there. From a sentiment level. I use IG index for spread betting and I love it when they are saying how 90% of client volume is on the short side - because I'm immediately looking for where I might get long on a stop run. This isn't the only thing I'd look at - but it's an extra clue. For UK shares, you can get an L2 feed directly from the London Stock Exchange (at a cost...

Market sentiment can also be derived from OI numbers as well...seeing where the orders sit can be a great tool...but is just that...a tool.

I can't really say that trading of L2 for Forex is impossible nor that it is impractical...but must be used on the larger levels and for the greater orders only.

As applied to the stock markets, L2 can be used for intraday positions to show the support and resistance levels without the use of charting software...I like this tool, have worked well with it...

My same application in forex...it didn't go so well...

Not really saying it can't be done, just more so saying, I sucked at it!
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #334
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 10:50am Jun 23, 2014 10:50am
Quoting Magix
{quote} Market sentiment can also be derived from OI numbers as well...seeing where the orders sit can be a great tool...but is just that...a tool. I can't really say that trading of L2 for Forex is impossible nor that it is impractical...but must be used on the larger levels and for the greater orders only. As applied to the stock markets, L2 can be used for intraday positions to show the support and resistance levels without the use of charting software...I like this tool, have worked well with it... My same application in forex...it didn't go...
Totally agree. I'll blame the HFT algos
  • #335
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 10:51am Jun 23, 2014 10:51am
Trading an unregulated market just using charts going for the win?
You guys must be joking right?
rgds
  • #336
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 10:57am Jun 23, 2014 10:57am
How can a price chart give you trade size? The answer is it can't! thast 1/2 day explaining ready
For retail to make money he MUST locate size in the market place. He MUST trade prices 'size' trades. Unless of course he is 'size', then he owns the game.
you said follow big money you will win ?
Do you know what size looks like? The answer is you don't. Because you are using a chart.
size ? I know thesize of my shoes , but I dont know if size realy metter to the market ?
  • #337
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 11:00am Jun 23, 2014 11:00am
Quoting skfx
Trading an unregulated market just using charts going for the win? You guys must be joking right? rgds
So, in addition to the charts, you'd suggest?
Tea Leaves?
A Crystal ball?
Calling Ms.Cleo?

Application of trading methodology through the use of technicals is viable in any market place and even more so in forex.

Reason being...the books still have to balance and due to there being more than a single relevant session that aren't necessarily overlapping, can in itself show where the support and resistance levels are.

Was TK buying or Selling?
Was London buying or Selling?
Was NY buying or selling?

Where are the market gaps in these sessions? Find these and you can build an entire trade strategy based on following the direction of the previous session as applied to current.

Ignorance and application of fear by market myths is of no value...it's harmful to you and perpetuating ignorance is also a danger to others.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #338
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 11:01am Jun 23, 2014 11:01am
Quoting Steamer
but I dont know if size really matter to the market ?
You don't know?
They'll take your money for sure!
rgds
  • #339
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 11:04am Jun 23, 2014 11:04am
Quoting Magix
{quote}Application of trading methodology through the use of technicals is viable in any market place and even more so in forex.
Hook line and sinker!
They reeled you in.
rgds
  • #340
  • Quote
  • Jun 23, 2014 11:12am Jun 23, 2014 11:12am
Quoting skfx
{quote} Hook line and sinker! They reeled you in. rgds
Where do you people come from?

You have an inability and you believe all others are the same?

Why bother posting in a thread that is a request for information, and post shit like this?

Why not just open a thread with Cindy and 60 seconds and keep telling yourselves that the market cannot be won on a chart...
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
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