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Looking for Real Trading Method

  • #241
  • Jun 21, 2014 4:21am Jun 21, 2014 4:21am
Quoting saqoli
{quote} hi, I do something like this with a little difference, after opening a position and for each 10,25,45,70 distance from opening position I will add one new order in direction of first order and also instead of sl I add pending position with volume of 1.5 all total order but in vise direction. what is your idea about it?
If the market is of fractal nature, why count the pips to put the stoploss? The logical thing is to put a stoploss agree with fractals, in the same grade. Up or down.
Adaptarse es la clave
  • #242
  • Jun 21, 2014 4:31am Jun 21, 2014 4:31am
Quoting Chicky
So far we have identified two key elements of a real or good trading method: 1. The skills and mindset of a trader 2. Resolving the Stoploss issue Any comments on these two will be highly appreciated. The third element that I would like to table is how to reduce Idle Capacity of an account margin. By that I mean, how to maximize use of available idle balance in our account. For example, if we risk 1% of our account for a possible 3% return. This issue can be resolved by opening a heavy position with a very tight SL of let's say 7 pips (risking 1%)...
My experience tells me that it is better to look for small gains, between 10 and 30 pips (even 5 pips), depending on the circumstances or market condition. The stoploss, to me, should be fractal, in the same degree as our trade.
Adaptarse es la clave
  • #243
  • Jun 21, 2014 4:53am Jun 21, 2014 4:53am
Quoting Chicky
I am NOT a professional trader but have deep interest in foreign currency trading. Have spent many years in this market and have developed and tested countless trading methods, also tested methods invented by others. I don't know how much and what is true in whatever is posted or claimed here. When I say I don't know, I honestly mean I have no means to check accuracy or otherwise of these claims. Therefore, all who claim 3% a year to 3,000% a year are innocent until proven guilty. However, everytime I read a claim about a system that is consistently...
A good philosophy to survive he forum Chicky!

It's strange because for years I loved replying to thread topics like this as some kind of experienced trader, who thought he'd mozy on in casually and share some wisdom,,, cause I was bored. Well that's what I told myself.

If I were being honest I was really trying to show someone (whoever would be reading) that I was better than the average guy at trading, or one of the proclaimed 5%, or a wealthy and intelligent person. This wasn't a conscious thought of mine, just the subconscious driver. I found that I posted at more frequency after a bad week. Like the words on the screen would compensate for the bad week or something. Like peoples admiration would somehow replace my monetary losses with the confidence I lost in myself as a trader. Well I guess they did, but it was a false high of course.

I wasn't a particularly bad trader, but somehow I still couldn't quite break that mold of treading water.Up weeks followed by down weeks. As I got better, up months were followed by down months,, and better still,, Up quarters were followed by down quarters.

I guess if I could summarize my turning point... And keep in mind I have literally tried everything (to my knowledge) in this trading thing... It would be that at some point it became apparent to me that I couldn't handle being wrong. My trading method needed to predict the markets next move or I was out. I did this for years, and the mindset made me strong and wise, but not rich.

My turning point came when suddenly it was suggested to me by someone I highly respect as a trader AND person to treat each trade as a 50/50... That was it. Go into every trade half expecting to lose. Suddenly all I needed to do was combine the best of what I'd tried over the years to form a repeatable system. Entry, Management, Exit. Suddenly it was simple. I cut my losses, I take my hits, and when it it's time I go hard.

I feel like it's only human to want to define and understand and be in control of everything that could some how impact on our egos. It's only natural. But as traders I think to do it successfully relies on our more animal side. To simply be and adapt and accept whatever nature throws at us. To know our role in the "jungle".

That is all. I honestly don't know how to answer your first post where once I would have loved to tell you what was what. Only you know.
like totally failure brah
  • #244
  • Jun 21, 2014 7:20am Jun 21, 2014 7:20am
Is there a real trading method that works all of the time ? In all market cycles ? in all Market shifts ?or do the traders who return a negative return each year
need to spend more time and energy working out when their trade model doesn't work...Do they need to appreciate that there are going to be x periods of time
when their trade model just doesn't fit. working out the boundaries within our own limits is key imho...
Memories caught in time but never forgotten
  • #245
  • Jun 21, 2014 8:57am Jun 21, 2014 8:57am
Quoting j4d
Is there a real trading method that works all of the time ? In all market cycles ? in all Market shifts ?or do the traders who return a negative return each year need to spend more time and energy working out when their trade model doesn't work...Do they need to appreciate that there are going to be x periods of time when their trade model just doesn't fit. working out the boundaries within our own limits is key imho...
Hey brother, nice post. The following isn't directed at you (or anyone) brother. Your post just prompted me to ramble a bit. We all know how well I do that.

I don't think there can be any "single" fixed model that can handle the market at all times under all conditions through all cycles. I also think the more complex a fixed model is, the more doomed to fail over time it is as well. More parts leaves more to break down. Now I know there are the statisticians of the world who accept that statistically, if it wins more than looses, even 51/49, it's a good system and in the end if it holds up over years, they've found that illusive "edge". I suppose that's true but it's a very narrow window with extremely tight parameters that need to be met consistently. Will the market always comply? Will the human using the system? LOL... Hardly. As such to me, it's only a fraction above if not the same as pure gambling.

I'm not much for statistics myself because the outcome is solely based on the model used to create them. What's the model based on? What's the goal of that model? Who created it and what are the creators intentions? One look at the way the US calculates our unemployment rate is only one of many good examples of models used to create statistics. Football stats here in the US are another. Both have an "agenda" by and for the creator.

Now of course one would think that in trading where the goal is to make money, the creator would do their level best to create an accurate model (unlike the aforementioned examples) so they can indeed make money. But is it possible to account for all the variables in a fluid, dynamic and ever changing environment such as the market? And then create a successful model for it? If so, I haven't seen one yet. Not saying it doesn't exist but I've never seen it. How can one create a model to "predict" the unpredictable? Especially in light of the fact that price and it's movement is the "result" of human behavior, not the cause. And that, is a pretty wide field to try and account for...lol

To me, being that the market is indeed fluid, dynamic and ever changing to the whims of it's human participants, As a trader I must be just as fluid and dynamic. Able to adapt to the ever changing environment we face each day. So, as it relates to the topic of this thread, my "method" is to do just that. I won't get into how I do this but I'll just say that I can "almost" guarantee working from the simple foundation of SR & PA in day trading, I won't trade Tuesday exactly the same way I traded Monday unless the market conditions are "Exactly" the same both days. In reality, How often do we really see that?
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #246
  • Jun 21, 2014 10:44am Jun 21, 2014 10:44am
Quoting albchr
{quote} Hey brother, nice post. The following isn't directed at you (or anyone) brother. Your post just prompted me to ramble a bit. We all know how well I do that. I don't think there can be any "single" fixed model that can handle the market at all times under all conditions through all cycles. I also think the more complex a fixed model is, the more doomed to fail over time it is as well. More parts leaves more to break down. Now I know there are the statisticians of the world who accept that statistically, if it wins more than looses,...


Cool post Chris, I'm glad my post if anything was thought provoking.... I like your ramblings ...

I admire your flexibility that's a great edge, I dont have that flexibility, but maybe recognising that might be my edge. One thing is for sure...
There are some great traders around the forum who return well above average annual returns and the one thing everyone has in common
is their unconscious belief that puts them into auto pilot when they need to be but also having the ability to awake their conscious when they need to take a
step back to assess a negative situation and correct it, these traders are great problem solvers, being able to navigate the barriers that are constantly on the path..

So should the question be for the new trader "looking for a real trading method"or should the question be "I'm looking to be able to condition myself into
being a successful trader"? ..This is my last post in this thread as I find it difficult to translate my thoughts into words..its not my strong point

Hope its stopped raining there and the sun is now shinning on you my friend..
Memories caught in time but never forgotten
  • #247
  • Jun 21, 2014 11:26am Jun 21, 2014 11:26am
Quoting simonb
{quote} lmao.. it's things like this... If your wondering. You're easy. So the trading thing didn't quite pan out, and now you're going commercial. The usual story. I trade quite well actually. But trading isn't my entire life anymore. Its boring as sh*t. Like you

Really, Cindy...the commercial thing again???

What am I selling?

Up to this point and throughout my history at FF and other forums, I have worked with others and read through what others have to say to advance my own learning. Anything I have provided has been 100% free...with exception of the Charitable Contributions that were required for some of the semi private EAs I have released...

As member picked the charity they were donating to...I can't even see how I would prosper off of even these efforts...

Do you think hit counts make scads of money in a free forum? Especially since we have already established that I don't actually have my own forum...

Maybe to gain thousands of members, to somebody elses forum so that it can be sold for scandalous amounts of cash??? Do you think that I am this diluted, or is it your own ignorance that keeps you posting this garbage...

Check out fxfisherman...up for sale for 2 years...lol

Personally...if that was my angle, and after seeing this, I would consider picking bottles from a ditch as the efforts to go through to prosper off of others, are greater than the efforts you'd actually need to put in.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #248
  • Jun 21, 2014 11:33am Jun 21, 2014 11:33am
Quoting simonb
So the trading thing didn't quite pan out,
Do you actually think you are unique in being up and down in market and wondering if there is a reason to continue on?

Go back through my post history and see where I have personally claimed to have blown up several live accounts...yeah buddy...it happened.

I admit it...

Going through and trying all the great ideas and trading systems and even in automation...lost!

Had some good days, had some great days and then Poof! A big hole where I used to have a funded account.

You wanna know what it was for me and why I continue to argue with the ignorance and lunacy that I see posted? Because it is pure bullshit.

The always win systems, don't.
All of the trading cliches are bullshit...

Stick with the trend...bla bla bla...
Losers add to losing positions...bla bla bla...
Never stand in front of speeding trains and never catch falling axes...bla bla bla...

Somewhere in the mixture of the never lose and the cliches is the truth about markets and trading. Working with the trend, while there is a trend, is prosperous. Working against the trend when the market is choppy, is prosperous...

Figuring out when these are, isn't the easiest thing to do.

You aren't bored by market nor are you bored by this place. You just suck!

You've watched a lot of years roll past and because you cannot succeed, assume that nobody else can either.

Your words of wisdom are worthless as you are the epitome of the failed trader...and now, you don't wanna play this game anymore, because you are bored?

RRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright!

Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #249
  • Jun 21, 2014 11:47am Jun 21, 2014 11:47am
Why do all systems fail?

That's been the big question here, hasn't it?

All of these people claiming to have market perfection and being able to tame the market and make all sorts of unlimited cash...

And the following week, they too vanish...

Does the market continue to change?

When I look back the the methods I used to use, most of the foundation for how I still currently trade...I look back to weeks I was able to make more than market range, but simply playing the short ranges...and I also look back to where I couldn't half of the weekly range, because I couldn't find entries or opportunities...



What was different from one week to the next?

Inside of my posts, I have left the actual bread crumbs to follow...and even given an idea as to when and why to apply certain strategies...

Quoting Magix
I study the independent market sessions. Study the various time frames in relation to others. And try to use this information to see the weekly cycles. Some base these cycles on what news will be present in the week...others like myself, could give a shit less about the fundamentals, and only watch the candles. However you do it...it is something that need be done. Getting caught next week looking for a swing position in either direction, could conceivably see you stopped out, longs and shorts on any given day and every day...Next week, if I...
You are all looking for market perfection...admit it.

You are finding systems and reasons that these systems need to fail, or succeed...

You are asking the wrong question.

The question isn't "Why do all systems fail?", it should be, "When will they work?".

If you can find out the WHEN, then you will have an idea of What system to apply.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #250
  • Jun 21, 2014 12:18pm Jun 21, 2014 12:18pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} Do you actually think you are unique in being up and down in market and wondering if there is a reason to continue on? Go back through my post history and see where I have personally claimed to have blown up several live accounts...yeah buddy...it happened. I admit it... Going through and trying all the great ideas and trading systems and even in automation...lost! Had some good days, had some great days and then Poof! A big hole where I used to have a funded account. You wanna know what it was for me and why I continue to argue with the...
You just wrote a book based on the opposite of what I said.? Bizzar

Dyslexic? Sorry man, I didn't know. Well done on your trading and good luck for the future.
like totally failure brah
  • #251
  • Jun 21, 2014 12:36pm Jun 21, 2014 12:36pm
Quoting simonb
{quote} You just wrote a book based on the opposite of what I said.? Bizzar Dyslexic? Sorry man, I didn't know. Well done on your trading and good luck for the future.
Whatever...
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #252
  • Jun 21, 2014 5:08pm Jun 21, 2014 5:08pm
Quoting Magix
The question isn't "Why do all systems fail?", it should be, "When will they work?".
Does anyone ever think there might be a reason why hedge funds turn off their algos around news events - because the two basic strategies of ranging and trending don't work so well in markets doing the opposite

Knowing when to trend and range is important, picking the right strategy for the right day is critical in my opinion
  • #253
  • Jun 21, 2014 5:41pm Jun 21, 2014 5:41pm
Quoting MCRotter
{quote} Does anyone ever think there might be a reason why hedge funds turn off their algos around news events - because the two basic strategies of ranging and trending don't work so well in markets doing the opposite Knowing when to trend and range is important, picking the right strategy for the right day is critical in my opinion
It's not just the day...there are also the relevant sessions and where the week falls in the month.

Wonder if this lends itself to the reason that others can only see a 50:50 coin toss average for success on any trade system???



Making any sense yet?
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #254
  • Jun 21, 2014 6:06pm Jun 21, 2014 6:06pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} It's not just the day...there are also the relevant sessions and where the week falls in the month. Wonder if this lends itself to the reason that others can only see a 50:50 coin toss average for success on any trade system??? Making any sense yet?
Makes sense to me, because that is exactly what I have been trying to do.
  • #255
  • Jun 21, 2014 6:06pm Jun 21, 2014 6:06pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} this lends itself to the reason that others can only see a 50:50 coin toss
never go full retard man

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s18WiitofZQ
like totally failure brah
  • #256
  • Jun 21, 2014 10:19pm Jun 21, 2014 10:19pm
Quoting elcurioso
[Quote = jmn5611; 7505813] {quote} Usted es un jugador de ajedrez, entonces? Vamos a aprovechar esta lejos de la rosca o vamos a descarrilar. Como comerciante, su habilidad es indiscutible, acabo siempre pienso en mí mismo como negro cuando el comercio, y debe convencer blanca en un error. Pero blanca tiene el flujo de pedidos, negro no tiene nada. Así que la única manera de vencer a blanco o por lo menos lo atrae es no permitir que viera sus piezas en el tablero. Es por eso que yo no uso las paradas. Yo comercio simplemente añadiendo órdenes en...
You might teach chess but you could learn a thing or two reading english and staying on topic.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #257
  • Jun 21, 2014 11:43pm Jun 21, 2014 11:43pm
guys, there is not right or wrong way to trade.......searching for an universal way to be profitable is a losing game.....a bit like trying to win a lottery ticket...
there are numerous way to make money in trading but if they do not make any sense to you or they do not reflect your personality....they will not produce money for you......DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

Because if you do not.....in my humble view you have not any chances here or anywhere...........

Here is on example......Trading range: many good traders make money on trading range, many also can make money only in trading range......Myself? I have not any idea how to make money in trading range, I tried many time and lost a lot of money on them. Why? Because I am not a trading range guy, I get lost in them, I think it is time to tun and they do all the time the opposite...every time...Instead, give me speed, movement, trend, then I read PA like nobody else.......or show me greed or fear and I automatically enter the zone where my decision making is flawless, mindless, there is constrain, only lightness. Why? Because that is the way I am.....there is not much distance between myself and the market.....I am the market...

Recognising a way that reflect our personality will be enough in transmitting into consistency? NO, but it will be the first step......Still a lot of work needs to be done (I am working at the moment and it is Sunday), every day until you have completely grasped it by applying experience... It is a very tough one....but if passion is there...it is doable.....
Wherever you go, there you are.
  • #258
  • Jun 21, 2014 11:46pm Jun 21, 2014 11:46pm
Quoting Magix
Why do all systems fail? That's been the big question here, hasn't it? All of these people claiming to have market perfection and being able to tame the market and make all sorts of unlimited cash... And the following week, they too vanish... Does the market continue to change? When I look back the the methods I used to use, most of the foundation for how I still currently trade...I look back to weeks I was able to make more than market range, but simply playing the short ranges...and I also look back to where I couldn't half of the weekly range,...
Welles Wilder attempted to use ADX and ADXr to determine when to turn on and turn off systems. Have you tried to code up an EA that only trades when the ADX is above or below the DX- and DX+ lines, for example?

One indicates trend, the other indicates range.

Another way is to just trade RTM systems and when they take a DD of more than a certain % then you know that you are in trend, so you turn off RTM and turn on the trend system. I have had to do this just recently, as the markets are in a historically tight range. Can't build millipedes in a 100 pip range!
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #259
  • Jun 21, 2014 11:47pm Jun 21, 2014 11:47pm
Quoting simonb
{quote} never go full retard man https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s18WiitofZQ
Inserted Video
The world you desire can be won. It exists.. it is real.. it is possible..
  • #260
  • Jun 22, 2014 12:10am Jun 22, 2014 12:10am
Quoting Mr. Scott
{quote} http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEoTQB7h3NQ
Wherever you go, there you are.
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