Order flow trading thread | Page 8 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

What is order flow trading? 93 replies

Supply demand trading and order flow 46 replies

How to flow with the order flow? 26 replies

Domino's Price and order flow trading 1,400 replies

Order Flow Trading with ICCE Channels 3 replies

Attachments: Order flow trading thread
Exit Attachments

Order flow trading thread

  • #141
  • May 20, 2014 6:32am May 20, 2014 6:32am
You guys ever consider the fact that the sentiment orders and news you rely upon are handed down to you by your liquidity providers?
If you ever consider something that the guys with 1000 X more money than you have not.. In regards to stops, sentiment etc.. Then consider yourself lucky..
Can you repeat this consistently>?
Sorry to be negative on the order flow concept, I do like it.. But It seems to me to be a lot like like the algo game. Not in the grasp of lil retailers.
Just saying. And yes I have thoroughly studied it

Seems though the only guy around here that made anything out of it, is still asking for more money... from you

Just my opinion.. All I will say.
like totally failure brah
  • #142
  • May 20, 2014 3:13pm May 20, 2014 3:13pm
Quoting Zelo
hi saneblane, my idea as below: when ask price is up, it mean someone execute orders to make price move up, aggressive when bid price is up, it mean someone have interest to make price move up, passive when ask price is down, it mean someone have interest to make price move down, passive when bid price is down, it mean someone execute orders to make price move down, aggressive passive orders when accumulating enough will make price move up/down, so often i will move before price aggressive action will support current price move, if i move down,...

Hey man that seems like a good strategy actually. I am not a coder so I can't test it myself, but the good thing about orderflow is that when you get your signal, the RR ratio is normally better than other means of trading where you just place a trade ad have it sitting there waiting for something to happen. Even If you theory is right 60 percent of the times you would still be able to make good money, it would take some skills with fine tuning of coarse but it can be done.

I am of the view that all the information that we need is available right from the market itself, it's how you filter it out that makes a difference, some of the information the market provide is just redundant most of the times, and it's your skills and/formula that can make the difference.
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #143
  • May 20, 2014 3:22pm May 20, 2014 3:22pm
Quoting simonb
You guys ever consider the fact that the sentiment orders and news you rely upon are handed down to you by your liquidity providers? If you ever consider something that the guys with 1000 X more money than you have not.. In regards to stops, sentiment etc.. Then consider yourself lucky.. Can you repeat this consistently>? Sorry to be negative on the order flow concept, I do like it.. But It seems to me to be a lot like like the algo game. Not in the grasp of lil retailers. Just saying. And yes I have thoroughly studied it Seems though the only guy...

That's a good point man, really. Not all orders move the market and sentiment is another thing to consider for some. I do not listen to news or sentiment or anything of that sort, all my information is hard data provided by the market itself, so you can say that I really don't care why price moves as long as it does, and it moves in a way that I recognize then I jump in. There are thing that are in the market that many miss and a lot of misconceptions that past as facts, and after you get past that then you are just left with the essentials to make good predictions. It's not snake oil for sure, it's hard work and research and sleepless nights of fine tuning, at least from my point of view.
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #144
  • May 22, 2014 7:57am May 22, 2014 7:57am
Quoting saneblane
{quote} That's a good point man, really. Not all orders move the market and sentiment is another thing to consider for some. I do not listen to news or sentiment or anything of that sort, all my information is hard data provided by the market itself, so you can say that I really don't care why price moves as long as it does, and it moves in a way that I recognize then I jump in. There are thing that are in the market that many miss and a lot of misconceptions that past as facts, and after you get past that then you are just left with the essentials...
Out of curiosity, have you observed differences in price movement between thick and thin volume?
Like you say, not all orders move the market, yet, thin markets even i can move them at certain points. So does your method adjust its expectations based on thick/thin volume? Any ideas here..?
  • #145
  • May 22, 2014 9:24am May 22, 2014 9:24am
Quoting Pipalicious
{quote} Out of curiosity, have you observed differences in price movement between thick and thin volume? Like you say, not all orders move the market, yet, thin markets even i can move them at certain points. So does your method adjust its expectations based on thick/thin volume? Any ideas here..?

Yes my method adjust to all market conditions such as what you described. But to answer your question I would have to describe what happens during thin and thick volume sessions. In thin sessions when you make a trade you can burn through liquidity and move the market easier, but the same reason the prices moves so easily would be the same reason why it would be hard to get out of your trade, namely the lack of liquidity, most retailers don't suffer much liquidity issue though.

The Major currencies are valued every 30 minutes, meaning the currencies that the market view as strong could change and become weak half hour from now, and the banks use this to there advantage, so in t thick market some orders that come into the market even though they would move the market if things were fair, become nothing more than liquidity for the banks, kinda like a game of hungry hungry hippos, or blood to sharks. Meaning if most people are long, then the banks would go short, and this causes some of the wipsaw that we see on the chart and is the reason why many people think the market is random. Couple that with banks competing against each other and it could become a more confusing situation, and just regular businesses like Apple buying currencies can come out of nowhere and further muddy the water. What you have to do is take all these variables into consideration and you would get a good grasp of what is going on. Price moves very differently for most situations in the market and most traders would never know this because they are stuck watching a chart, that's why I have profiled price behavior itself, I really don't care who is buying or selling, I only follow the biggest orders.
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #146
  • May 22, 2014 9:44am May 22, 2014 9:44am
Quoting saneblane
{quote} [...] Meaning if most people are long, then the banks would go short,[...]
Hi guys,
I have to say a very interesting thread. Hope it will continue at this high level.

Regarding the statement above:
When the market is long, then the banks are in fact short. Cause they are the liquidity providers and thus finally the counterparty of the long traders. And that is also the reason, why you see "retracements". Banks have very deep pockets, but from time to time they have to (re-)balance their books ...

Keep up your discussions, very interesting.
CU
  • #147
  • May 22, 2014 9:58am May 22, 2014 9:58am
Quoting saneblane
{quote} Yes my method adjust to all market conditions such as what you described.... What you have to do is take all these variables into consideration and you would get a good grasp of what is going on. Price moves very differently for most situations in the market and most traders would never know this because they are stuck watching a chart, that's why I have profiled price behavior itself, I really don't care who is buying or selling, I only follow the biggest orders.
You are full of insight, but what i dont comprehend is 'how' you profiled price behaviour based on volume, when, in spot fx there is no 'true' volume (unless your using tick volume and strength/weakness between counterparty currencies).
  • #148
  • Edited 2:33pm May 22, 2014 12:42pm | Edited 2:33pm
Quoting Pipalicious
{quote} You are full of insight, but what i dont comprehend is 'how' you profiled price behaviour based on volume, when, in spot fx there is no 'true' volume (unless your using tick volume and strength/weakness between counterparty currencies).
I was going to answer that questions when I got back on FF a few months ago, but I started getting emails from people with axes to grind and coupled that with someone who I helped to better his trading who now walk around and pretend that he learned it all on his own and I don't really give out to much of my research anymore. You are right, there is no way you can know the "exact' amount of buying that went down, but you can know the ratio, or which ones were bought and sold the most. Although this info alone won't help. it is crucial. and it's information like this that helps to profile price behavior.

Forex is probably the market that has the most misconceptions and misinformation that I have ever seen. Everything from timeframe, to S/R to ranges and trends are nothing more that what someone wants you to see and believe and react to, it's the biggest magic trick in the world. Watch one hand while the other hand is doing something else, it's all misdirection. The information I have I got is from years of research and it would probably make almost anyone a good trader, but they wouldn't respect it the way I have and probably wouldn't even know what can be done with it. Since the FX market is the market that drives all the other markets, you can literally profile a market crash with the information I have, but let's keep it on a smaller scale and I will say this much. The market has all the information that is needed to know what is going on 80 percent of the times. Finding it is part of the reward, along with the money you can make from it. So I can only advise you to keep diggin and try to understand every aspect of the market then you would know how it really works.
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #149
  • May 23, 2014 1:36pm May 23, 2014 1:36pm
Quoting Rap Skallion
{quote} So instead of trying to predict where the orders are hidden, simply watch to see when they occur. Ticks have a pace and direction. I would say more often than not, one large brokers' tick chart will correspond well (>80%) with the whole. When the pace picks up, and the trace assumes a direction, orders are flowing.. The question of judgement is, can you get in on this flow, or are you already too late to take advantage? Is this move just a few stops being hit and soon to come to an end, or has something happened that will take time to unwind,...
that is basically what I do... I thought I was the only one (:
  • #150
  • May 23, 2014 1:46pm May 23, 2014 1:46pm
Quoting Rap Skallion
{quote} So instead of trying to predict where the orders are hidden, simply watch to see when they occur. Ticks have a pace and direction. I would say more often than not, one large brokers' tick chart will correspond well (>80%) with the whole. When the pace picks up, and the trace assumes a direction, orders are flowing.. The question of judgement is, can you get in on this flow, or are you already too late to take advantage? Is this move just a few stops being hit and soon to come to an end, or has something happened that will take time to unwind,...

I missed this Good post, but yes you are correct tick movements in streams in the same direction can be used as a guage of where money is flowing to.
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #151
  • May 23, 2014 8:19pm May 23, 2014 8:19pm
Quoting Rap Skallion
{quote} So instead of trying to predict where the orders are hidden, simply watch to see when they occur. Ticks have a pace and direction. I would say more often than not, one large brokers' tick chart will correspond well (>80%) with the whole. When the pace picks up, and the trace assumes a direction, orders are flowing.. The question of judgement is, can you get in on this flow, or are you already too late to take advantage? Is this move just a few stops being hit and soon to come to an end, or has something happened that will take time to unwind,...
good post ,

you can see the flows ,I trade off the quote. the flow is very visible or lack of it.i only trade cable but again I am one of those few that use the flows from related pairs as my guide to the money flows,allthough I have 14 pairs of values I use, I concentrate on 4 or five.using the related pairs value change is invaluable for remaining in a trade or exiting.

watching the flows this way is the clearest perspective of present order flow and hints to forth coming flow if only by default from delayed response .this way of trading can be traded straight off the quote and values without opening a chart.

which leads to your other point.i do use charts for calculating the most likely points were interest lies.combining flows and calculated levels not only allow ones mind for reference points but concentrates ones mind on the reaction or change in flows from that point in time and value.

watching the market in this way you can see the market stall point in range,often you can see this stall point broken allowing for limited risk trades for break from range before it has started. it does require a lot of screen time to see or I should say be able to read .
  • #152
  • May 25, 2014 12:52pm May 25, 2014 12:52pm
I am using ALLQ which is a Bloomberg Function for looking at quotes. It has all (well the ones the feed into BBG) the Banks quotes coming in (I don't execute on BBG yet) and can be set to a Contributor view or Best Bid/Ask.

I am still working out which one is more use and how the data can give me an edge in some way. Once I have decided on the pair to trade I then drill down and look at this and how it interacts with certain levels - once it gets to the level - then I look at ALLQ to see how the price reacts.

So this week is the first week without charts for me

PS: If anyone is using BBG would be interested to hear from you.
  • #153
  • May 25, 2014 4:16pm May 25, 2014 4:16pm
Quoting longshort101
I am using ALLQ which is a Bloomberg Function for looking at quotes. It has all (well the ones the feed into BBG) the Banks quotes coming in (I don't execute on BBG yet) and can be set to a Contributor view or Best Bid/Ask. I am still working out which one is more use and how the data can give me an edge in some way. Once I have decided on the pair to trade I then drill down and look at this and how it interacts with certain levels - once it gets to the level - then I look at ALLQ to see how the price reacts. So this week is the first week without...

Good luck man, but it's something that would take some practice. You need to use the chart first to get a feel for how price move at different places, while looking at the feed and then it should give you some confidence to leave the chart, it is going to take some practice but you should get use to it. May the pip be with you.
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #154
  • Jun 16, 2014 9:58am Jun 16, 2014 9:58am
Hello All, i've been trading of the flows for some time, caught some great moves by taking a macro view and watching for major stop levels/barriers. I used to use MNI for flow info - anyone know any other good news sources (I don't mind paying for it)
  • #155
  • Jun 17, 2014 1:26am Jun 17, 2014 1:26am
there are various places you can look for clues. MNI seems a little heavy and slow, not as nimble as I need. http://www.fxww.com/ occasionally has some useful information. http://www.orderflowtrading.com/ForexNews.aspx has a pretty consistent feed. http://www.forexlive.com/ has some clues.
  • #156
  • Jun 17, 2014 4:08am Jun 17, 2014 4:08am
here you can confirm some of your analysis http://fxtrade.oanda.com/analysis/forex-order-book
  • #157
  • Jun 17, 2014 4:17am Jun 17, 2014 4:17am
and here http://fxtrade.oanda.com/analysis/hi...al-open-orders
  • #158
  • Jun 17, 2014 4:19am Jun 17, 2014 4:19am
hi user,

Firstly thanks for starting this thread...I am also getting the details about the orders from orderflow website....I am kind of finding it a bit hard to use the order board...I have read the thread started by Darkstar about orderflow and tried using it to learn trading....I do know what bids and offer mean but its the stops that really confuses me..for example if on the order board it says that there is a large stop placed below 0.8050 mark...what does that mean....and also if it says large stop placed above the 0.8050 mark.. what does that mean...please do advice....and sometimes it says stops building above a value or below a value...I do understand when it says sell stops, buy stops but mostly on orderboard it just says stops either above or below.....that really confuses me whether to buy or sell.


will really appreciate ur help

Regards

Dennis
  • #159
  • Jun 17, 2014 4:51am Jun 17, 2014 4:51am
it would be best to use the currency of your choice for this discussion, and a chart, but in the absence of that, consider EG. Stops may be for closing positions or for entering positions. It depends on the situation. In this chart, .8065 would be the location of protective stops for traders already short in this pair. They may be looking to add to their position, or reenter at supply at .8050 area, aka offers. .7960 could be the target of traders entering as mentioned earlier or stops of traders trying to catch a lucky long but more likely they would be the stops of break out traders, entering on the fresh low for a lower target. Which one depends on your read on the sentiment and trade style/plan. In this case contrasting EUR vs GBP sentiment clearly favors a lower EG, and finding shorts to various targets until sentiment changes would be most profitable imho.
Attached Image
  • #160
  • Jun 17, 2014 5:06am Jun 17, 2014 5:06am
Hi User,

Thanks for ur explanation, think I am getting it now...so when it say stops below or above a value on the order board it could go either way right?? depending on the size of the orders...like if it is good enough to move the price, right?? So it all depends on the sentiment...like if there has been a long downtrend or weakness in a given currency then chances are that more short orders are placed at certain stop levels right???

Regards

Dennis
0 traders viewing now