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Technical Analysis Fallacy

  • #47,161
  • Jun 14, 2014 11:33pm Jun 14, 2014 11:33pm
Quoting fti
{quote} i not sure about your region. Do you seperate electricity for lighting use and power use? they requires different "cleaness" ratings. elect spikes has little effects to lighting, but can fry motorised appliances and unprotected circuit boards. regards
ah only one source is use for all needs. though stabilizer are used with appliances.
don't predict direction, but dance with flow of water
  • #47,162
  • Jun 14, 2014 11:39pm Jun 14, 2014 11:39pm
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ai yo wrong song
this not evening primrose.

that track 1
solli no have on net.


regards
  • #47,163
  • Edited Jun 15, 2014 2:49am Jun 14, 2014 11:50pm | Edited Jun 15, 2014 2:49am
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who the jim beans writes the lyrics?

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i like the song, but who the dang wrote the lyrics, it sucks
so now you know.
some peeps are still alive because is illegal to shoot them and they can write nice tunes.
and also God not allow eat them.
So try not be one, already too many of em everywhere hiding in system cracks.v=oW9-QtfTvbA

i think stay on mainstream is better. all are the same , caste system by colour,creed or zone is BS.

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  • #47,164
  • Jun 15, 2014 2:49am Jun 15, 2014 2:49am
Quoting fti
{quote} good understanding. so thats the underlying basic we try not to violate when designing our MO. ok then we look into charting. linear charting is a basic way chart a series of data. it is good way plot points of read so that can see change of behaviour. when series of data point increases then will take up lots space because way to plot change have to be against something. normally change is against time. Things change over time mostly. Yes? But because per change data plot in a large series can become very long we will lose focus...

Hi fti

Sorry for the late reply my friend , I was out yesterday evening.

I see, so the lower time scope has the detail of the move and presents the opportunities to allow us to take advantage (or not), adding anything other than what is truly there by design (price data) that tries to imitate the truth will just confuse an already difficult situation that our mind has trouble dealing with because of our inability to process all we see, a 10 pip bar or move can look very different depending on how the market has/is moving and the chart move/time adjustment on our screen that is presented to us at any given time, so the mind is altered further due to the extra data from the ‘additive’ that is supposed to enhance performance but only serves to make the mind work harder outside its normal range and as the engine it will not run as designed which will have consequences (the two sides). Cause and Effect.

The MO should be designed to run with the market not give an altered state of reality.

I have to recognise the processing shortcomings in my mind, by recognising the reality of time, it is not seconds on a clock but is very different depending on the speed of what is going on (the handycap) to see the clear (clean) picture that is presented to me.

......What has been keeping me going is the money management but I have tried to tinker with the design, maybe this is why I felt I was not progressing/standing in front of a brick wall for the last couple of months, knowledge is power and now i understand the cause and effect I will run by/with the design and naked again, thanks again fti for showing me the cleaning additive.

thanks for your valuable time and wisdom spent with me.

Phil.
-be careful about what you allow to be put in your mind-
  • #47,165
  • Jun 15, 2014 2:56am Jun 15, 2014 2:56am
Quoting phil13
{quote} Hi fti Sorry for the late reply my friend , I was out yesterday evening. I see, so the lower time scope has the detail of the move and presents the opportunities to allow us to take advantage (or not), adding anything other than what is truly there by design (price data) that tries to imitate the truth will just confuse an already difficult situation that our mind has trouble dealing with because of our inability to process all we see, a 10 pip bar or move can look very different depending on how the market has/is moving and the chart...

Just to help you navigate the clearer picture.
take a second by second chart for a 5 mins chart.
and take a 5 mins candle chart.
then try reverse engineer the infomation in the 5 mins chart back to a second by second chart.
Just try.
Is not possible.
already only for a 5 mins chart.
try take a day candle and reverse engineer it.
only way get the info back is by lying.

regards

Most peeps,already reading alduterated info because need to overcome handycap.
Then some build other indicators for already aldulterated data.
and they believe they looking at the real picture.

Just like ask you what the difference between a 12 MA and a 50 MA?
  • #47,166
  • Jun 15, 2014 3:10am Jun 15, 2014 3:10am
Further on the subject.
Peeps not understand the market structure as well.

You see the charting techniques was invented initially on equity markets which are exchange traded.
then the commodities exchange traded markets.
in these markets although there is a bid and offer spread , there is time and sales reports on actually traded prices.
Could be the bid or the offer price.

Now try this.
I extream the bid offer show you the fallacy.
bid 10 offer 100.
where you going plot the price?
10 or 100 or should it be 55?

some plots 10 some plots 100 on charts
some will assume and plot 55. Which is the correct plot?\

guess who knows which plot is correct and why?


regards
  • #47,167
  • Jun 15, 2014 3:25am Jun 15, 2014 3:25am
Quoting fti
Further on the subject. Peeps not understand the market structure as well. You see the charting techniques was invented initially on equity markets which are exchange traded. then the commodities exchange traded markets. in these markets although there is a bid and offer spread , there is time and sales reports on actually traded prices. Could be the bid or the offer price. Now try this. I extream the bid offer show you the fallacy. bid 10 offer 100. where you going plot the price? 10 or 100 or should it be 55? some plots 10 some plots 100 on charts...
hey fti & phil, good afternoon,

i see the reasoning on the engines.

diff between 12 & 50MA, 50MA: in the context we are discussing, 50MA takes in more adultered data painting a more inaccurate picture than 12MA, thus, i guess the longer it is, the less useful the MA

on the bid/ask plot, market maker will know the correct plots, because customers is hitting him and he would have the timesales info. thus, i guess the correct plot one should be charting should be the time sales info, and if compressed, should be charting the vwap.. is this on the right track?
THE ALL is MIND; The Universe is Mental
  • #47,168
  • Jun 15, 2014 3:29am Jun 15, 2014 3:29am
Hi fti

I have previously noticed that it is impossible to reverse engineer a daily candle, it only has four points of data, whereas a days worth of M5 candle data has 1152, if that is not enough to trade from what will be???

The MA’s have one point of data, it makes sense to me now that of what use could that be?, it is just another line at whatever setting/level, price data does not have to respect or any way interact with this line, no more than it does with any other line we like to place on our charts. 12 or 50 difference? I would say none, sometimes they are even at the same level on a chart.

Not fast at typing my friend and have to put through word first so everyone can understand me.

MM’s the only people who know price as they are making the market, it could be anywhere in your 10-100 range, anything would be a guess (gamble).

regards

Phil.
-be careful about what you allow to be put in your mind-
  • #47,169
  • Jun 15, 2014 3:51am Jun 15, 2014 3:51am
Quoting Jacque
{quote} hey fti & phil, good afternoon, i see the reasoning on the engines. diff between 12 & 50MA, 50MA: in the context we are discussing, 50MA takes in more adultered data painting a more inaccurate picture than 12MA, thus, i guess the longer it is, the less useful the MA on the bid/ask plot, market maker will know the correct plots, because customers is hitting him and he would have the timesales info. thus, i guess the correct plot one should be charting should be the time sales info, and if compressed, should be charting the vwap.. is this...

Hi Jacque

good afternoon (still morning here) .

i see you mention 'vwap' before, may i ask what it is/stand for?

regards

Phil.
-be careful about what you allow to be put in your mind-
  • #47,170
  • Jun 15, 2014 3:55am Jun 15, 2014 3:55am
Quoting phil13
MM’s the only people who know price as they are making the market, it could be anywhere in your 10-100 range, anything would be a guess (gamble). regards Phil.
even then there are so many mm ( not mei mei = girls/sisters) in the OTC market so nobody knows where the market is in the 10-100 range.
  • #47,171
  • Jun 15, 2014 4:02am Jun 15, 2014 4:02am
Quoting phil13
{quote} Hi Jacque good afternoon (still morning here) . i see you mention 'vwap' before, may i ask what it is/stand for? regards Phil.
opps, afternoon from Asia , morning to you in UK

vwap stands for volume weighted average price
THE ALL is MIND; The Universe is Mental
  • #47,172
  • Jun 15, 2014 4:04am Jun 15, 2014 4:04am
Quoting kinky
{quote} even then there are so many mm ( not mei mei = girls/sisters) in the OTC market so nobody knows where the market is in the 10-100 range.

Hi Kinky

ah. yes, i forgot there is not one all seeing MM, it is a free market. thanks .

@ Jacque

thanks for reply, now i know what your talking about .

maybe we should do the Aussie thing and say 'good day'.

regards

Phil.
-be careful about what you allow to be put in your mind-
  • #47,173
  • Jun 15, 2014 4:19am Jun 15, 2014 4:19am
Quoting fti
Further on the subject. Peeps not understand the market structure as well. You see the charting techniques was invented initially on equity markets which are exchange traded. then the commodities exchange traded markets. in these markets although there is a bid and offer spread , there is time and sales reports on actually traded prices. Could be the bid or the offer price. Now try this. I extream the bid offer show you the fallacy. bid 10 offer 100. where you going plot the price? 10 or 100 or should it be 55? some plots 10 some plots 100 on charts...
ok
1 only we know the price which is trade. bid/offer are choice for other party.
2 if other party chose 100 than at that very time price is 100, now next bid i.e 50/90. if counter party chose 50 than price is 50.
and so on price never stay at any point it moves some time fast some time slow.
we only plot the history of price with respect to time.
3 bid and offer is the mechanism of price discovery.
4 there are many factors effecting on bid/offer.
5 trader can't manage or you can say twist these factors .
6 so what trader want to know for trading. bid and offer at"NOW'
7 there are time windows. and behavior of bid offer at some points that indicate the possible change of price level.
8 charts are helpful for indication of these points.
9 be prepared 100% opposite bcz it may be corn feeding.
10 lot to come.
don't predict direction, but dance with flow of water
  • #47,174
  • Edited 6:35am Jun 15, 2014 6:17am | Edited 6:35am
Quoting fti
{quote} Just to help you navigate the clearer picture. take a second by second chart for a 5 mins chart. and take a 5 mins candle chart. then try reverse engineer the infomation in the 5 mins chart back to a second by second chart. Just try. Is not possible. already only for a 5 mins chart. try take a day candle and reverse engineer it. only way get the info back is by lying. regards Most peeps,already reading alduterated info because need to overcome handycap. Then some build other indicators for already aldulterated data. and they believe...
hi fti,

this is my main point in asking phil about why not the 1min but the 5mins. because if 5mins are used, a lot of information is left out or needs assumptions.

because the 1min is the best chart we can have in MT4, other than that its right clicking and looking at the trade window and seeing the bid ask graph.

the thing here is the 1min would show how the 5mins was formed so it shows more information about the market form, the 1 hour is formed but the 5mins shows how the 1hr is formed.

so is it not this form we are reading?

so isn't time important in this case? thats why i had asked if how the data was taken, since if data which was check pointed at only the 5min mark, may hide some indications of what happened within the scope of 5mins, since the way the data was taken itself is even more important to what data the trader was reading, since faulty data causes faulty decisions.
  • #47,175
  • Jun 15, 2014 6:48am Jun 15, 2014 6:48am
Quoting CookieMonsta
{quote} hi fti, this is my main point in asking phil about why not the 1min but the 5mins. because if 5mins are used, a lot of information is left out or needs assumptions. because the 1min is the best chart we can have in MT4, other than that its right clicking and looking at the trade window and seeing the bid ask graph. the thing here is the 1min would show how the 5mins was formed so it shows more information about the market form, the 1 hour is formed but the 5mins shows how the 1hr is formed. so is it not this form we are reading? so isn't...
http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-
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  • #47,176
  • Edited 7:17am Jun 15, 2014 7:02am | Edited 7:17am
Quoting CookieMonsta
{quote} hi fti, this is my main point in asking phil about why not the 1min but the 5mins. because if 5mins are used, a lot of information is left out or needs assumptions. because the 1min is the best chart we can have in MT4, other than that its right clicking and looking at the trade window and seeing the bid ask graph. the thing here is the 1min would show how the 5mins was formed so it shows more information about the market form, the 1 hour is formed but the 5mins shows how the 1hr is formed. so is it not this form we are reading? so isn't...
I do not think there is such a thing as faulty data.
No data becomes faulty. Maybe that which charting it.
This the reason why peeps can invent any thing they like.

I already gave you the answer,in last post, but it may not be obvious to some.

regards

key word is adulterated.
what you think that wiki was for?

and i think many of you had not been looking at clocks for a long time.
We have special liking for clocks, in dealing rooms we have at last 5 of it hanging right in front of us.
I cannot understand why all of them is in 5 min splices, there must be a reason.
  • #47,177
  • Jun 15, 2014 7:04am Jun 15, 2014 7:04am
Quoting fti
{quote} http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a- {image}
don't predict direction, but dance with flow of water
  • #47,178
  • Jun 15, 2014 7:16am Jun 15, 2014 7:16am
Quoting fti
{quote} I do not think there is such a thing as faulty data. No data becomes faulty. Maybe that which charting it. This the reason why peeps can invent any thing they like. I already gave you the answer,in last post, but it may not be obvious to some. regards key word is adulterated. what you think that wiki was for? and i think many of you had not been looking at clocks for a long time. We have special liking for clocks, in dealing rooms we have at last 5 of it hanging right of front of us.
hi fti,

tokyo time, new york time, frankfurt time, sydney time and london time as some of the 5?
  • #47,179
  • Edited 7:30am Jun 15, 2014 7:18am | Edited 7:30am
Quoting CookieMonsta
{quote} hi fti, tokyo time, new york time, frankfurt time, sydney time and london time as some of the 5?
wrong. you seem have problem with sequential time zoning?

regards

if you cannot find the other one, try looking at his wrist.
My peeps no money buy watches, so i put that up for them also.
Where you think pawn shops get their rolex stocks from?
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  • #47,180
  • Edited 7:37am Jun 15, 2014 7:23am | Edited 7:37am
Quoting fti
{quote} I do not think there is such a thing as faulty data. No data becomes faulty. Maybe that which charting it. This the reason why peeps can invent any thing they like. I already gave you the answer,in last post, but it may not be obvious to some. regards key word is adulterated. what you think that wiki was for? and i think many of you had not been looking at clocks for a long time. We have special liking for clocks, in dealing rooms we have at last 5 of it hanging right in front of us. I cannot understand why all of them is in 5 min splices,...
me recalled you mentioned a about a meeting a dealers suppose to have with someone, they waited and after 5 mins they became unrested and walked out of door. peeps attention span is in 5mins..

wiki is to show that things have designed time window to work properly. if nvr follow time window, will result in inaccurate conclusion. then if me think in terms of trading, depending on the type of terrain, it will have its "designed" time window.

in market vaccum, time window could be larger and we use higher tf chart, in good liquidity market, time window is small and we use lower tf chart.., question then is what is the approximate time window for each kind of terrain? there is log base 2 thingy me still looking at... me think is one kind of method but there are also approximate method by just eyeball charts.. is me on right track thinking?
THE ALL is MIND; The Universe is Mental
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