Is anyone here an institutional trader? | Page 11 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Anyone here profitable? Show your Live Earnings here 3 replies

Brokers and Banks as an Institutional Trader 4 replies

Anyone can provide market depth snapshot for ATC Active Trader ? 0 replies

anyone can login to vt trader? 1 reply

Attachments: Is anyone here an institutional trader?
Exit Attachments

Is anyone here an institutional trader?

  • #201
  • Jun 3, 2014 11:36am Jun 3, 2014 11:36am
Agree 100%

nobody can move fx market

when you do small trades chasing 20 pips or less you don't care anyway.
When you are looking like big boys to catch a trend for hundreds of pips you have to follow the trend and the trend is easy to determine on a longer time frame
under 1 hour time frame you only see noise
you can day trade noise
but when you have done that for 20 years you usually switch to longer time frame with less stress and a lot of less hours in front of your computer
  • #202
  • Jun 3, 2014 11:48am Jun 3, 2014 11:48am
Quoting JacobFordFX
If say for argument sake, Soros comes in to buy 250 million Eur/Usd and the market only moves 3 pips. The order as is didn't move the market and anyone who was long eurusd didn't really benefit BUT if you know it was Soros maybe you follow the trade. BUT then again you have no idea what his parameters are, he may have bought at 1.3600 and is looking for 1.6000 and stopping out at 1.2500 You may not have those deep of pockets to copy that trade. I still believe unless you have the order in your hands as a dealer and it has to be a market order, it may not be a huge help to know. In my 12 years dealing FX I have never really seen anything amazing as far as trades go, it was always just a matter of degree (size). You can bet if Eur/Usd is trending trading lower the entire market will look to be short and vs versa. The Big funds made big money by being in big moves in big size. I'm sure most of you here can see that on your own. It's just matter of how big a stick you are willing to swing
Bottomline: not knowing the whos, the whys and the whatfors is not a handicap.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #203
  • Jun 3, 2014 12:17pm Jun 3, 2014 12:17pm
Spieler and Skenobi said it well

Knowing order flow (or even having orders) is not the holy grail of trading. I still speak to some of my colleagues in the market and there information and opinions are really no different then the vast majority of traders here. Unless this particular friend of mine was nice enough to call me before he was about to sell 1 yard of Aud/Usd (for which I would be eternally grateful and willingly to give a kidney for him) We retail guys/girls aren't missing much.

Be confident in what your own eyes and analysis is telling you, it's really the only way to progress as a trader anyway.
  • #204
  • Jun 3, 2014 12:41pm Jun 3, 2014 12:41pm
Quoting spieler
Agree 100% nobody can move fx market when you do small trades chasing 20 pips or less you don't care anyway. When you are looking like big boys to catch a trend for hundreds of pips you have to follow the trend and the trend is easy to determine on a longer time frame under 1 hour time frame you only see noise you can day trade noise but when you have done that for 20 years you usually switch to longer time frame with less stress and a lot of less hours in front of your computer
Can I ask if that is true how you can hunt the stops?
  • #205
  • Jun 3, 2014 12:56pm Jun 3, 2014 12:56pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} Bottomline: not knowing the whos, the whys and the whatfors is not a handicap.
As pro trader, what is your opinion about "money never ever leaves market, only goes one currency to another, create some cycle via follow fundamental reasons."How can retailers catch this big movements? Thanks for sharing with us your experience
  • #206
  • Jun 3, 2014 4:33pm Jun 3, 2014 4:33pm
Quoting skenobi
(So many posts in this thread already, missed this one...) {quote} For the day traders of the team, they can't trade without having clearly-defined stop loss orders (unlike retail traders) that keep them within their daily or weekly or monthly stop loss limits (each trader is given stop loss limits which pretty much limits what he can do). Even structural traders with long term outlooks have to put it in black and white what they intend to do if price moves against them by X hundred pips.
Quoting JacobFordFX
{quote} My risk and drawdown wasn't determined in pct points, it was an absolute USD amount. They gave limits based on the volatility and liquidity of the books (products and currency pairs) you managed. I don't that really answers your question. If I understand your question, I had a soft drawdown of my own for my overall p/l in order to keep on track to make or exceed my budget.
Hi Skenobi, Hi Jacob,
Nice to have you both here.

If you were expected to make, say, $1M by the end of the year, what would be the largest drawdown (in absolute terms, regardless of overall volatility) that your boss would be willing to tolerate for this given outcome? Thanks.
Hear the music before the song is over ...
  • #207
  • Jun 3, 2014 5:46pm Jun 3, 2014 5:46pm
Quoting GlobalMacro
{quote} {quote} Hi Skenobi, Hi Jacob, Nice to have you both here. If you were expected to make, say, $1M by the end of the year, what would be the largest drawdown (in absolute terms, regardless of overall volatility) that your boss would be willing to tolerate for this given outcome? Thanks.
I did have a 1 million USD budget my first full year trading. My Daily DD was 100K USD at which point I would have to explain myself but not necessarily have to exit the position. If I lost 250 K during the month then I am in trader jail until the new month. It's different in banks as opposed to say hedge funds. I ran a book and provided liquidity/pricing for customers sometimes you get saddled with a bad deal that you have to sit with.

I will tell you from all the traders that had long careers we all had our own self-imposed DD's (varying for each individual). It was in our best interest to not DD too much we all wanted the big bonus at the end of the year. So we were all excellent money mangers because we were highly motivated. In my 12 year career I only remembered being triggered once and maybe two or three other guys in that time. The bank gave us plenty of room to hang ourselves but we weren't stupid enough to put out head in the noose
  • #208
  • Jun 3, 2014 6:10pm Jun 3, 2014 6:10pm
JacobFordFX , Spieler and Skenobi

A question to you guys... What is your favorite time frame to trade... I know that opportunities are on each time frame when the time is right and during your carrier you tied all of them, but do you have THE FAVORITE time frame where you feel almost like ''home''.

Also, what kind of charts do you prefer (candles,bar or line)...

Thank you .
  • #209
  • Jun 3, 2014 6:42pm Jun 3, 2014 6:42pm
Quoting NewToForex14
JacobFordFX , Spieler and Skenobi A question to you guys... What is your favorite time frame to trade... I know that opportunities are on each time frame when the time is right and during your carrier you tied all of them, but do you have THE FAVORITE time frame where you feel almost like ''home''. Also, what kind of charts do you prefer (candles,bar or line)... Thank you .

I daily charts for overall trend and I time with hourly charts. I like candlesticks only because they are more substantial from a visual perspective, I no very little about candle stick patterns
  • #210
  • Edited 7:10pm Jun 3, 2014 6:48pm | Edited 7:10pm
Quoting Naokia980
{quote} As pro trader, what is your opinion about "money never ever leaves market, only goes one currency to another, create some cycle via follow fundamental reasons."How can retailers catch this big movements? Thanks for sharing with us your experience
Try re-reading the statement that you quoted from me. "not knowing the whos, the whys and the whatfors is not a handicap. " I think I've already answered your question.

Let me be clear: Whether or not money ever "leaves market", creates "cycles" for whatever "reason", etc etc, all those nebulous concepts don't matter to me. The answers to your concerns doesn't make me a better trader. "Reasons" of WHY "stuff" happens... they're interesting to know. But if I had NOT known them, I won't lose any sleep over it.

If my methodology works in general and if I already have stop loss orders or mental stops that take care of my risk if/when market turns against me, why do I even need to know WHY the market turned against me? I just close my losers and move on to the next trade.

How to catch big movements? Erm... by following the trend, maybe?
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #211
  • Jun 3, 2014 6:57pm Jun 3, 2014 6:57pm
Quoting NewToForex14
JacobFordFX , Spieler and Skenobi A question to you guys... What is your favorite time frame to trade... I know that opportunities are on each time frame when the time is right and during your carrier you tied all of them, but do you have THE FAVORITE time frame where you feel almost like ''home''. Also, what kind of charts do you prefer (candles,bar or line)... Thank you .

I have no favorite timeframe. I trade whatever timeframe suited to my particular condition at the time e.g. amount of available screen time, available free time away from distractions, etc etc

I use candles and line charts. No preference.. just whatever gives me the information that I want.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #212
  • Jun 4, 2014 3:12am Jun 4, 2014 3:12am
Quoting JacobFordFX
{quote} I did have a 1 million USD budget my first full year trading. My Daily DD was 100K USD at which point I would have to explain myself but not necessarily have to exit the position. If I lost 250 K during the month then I am in trader jail until the new month. It's different in banks as opposed to say hedge funds. I ran a book and provided liquidity/pricing for customers sometimes you get saddled with a bad deal that you have to sit with. I will tell you from all the traders that had long careers we all had our own self-imposed DD's (varying...
Incentive to be disciplined is probably the single most important advantage
a trader as an employee has. One could say private traders don't really lack trading knowledge as much as
they lack a suitable environment to thrive in.
Jacob, do you feel the desire at times to be back trading at a bank again, being in the middle of it all or you feel more fulfilled doing it on your own...good discussion
Hear the music before the song is over ...
  • #213
  • Jun 4, 2014 3:53am Jun 4, 2014 3:53am
#Skenobi, #JacobFordFX,

Based on your knowledge and experience would you use volume to anticipate a reversal (or pullback) by noticing the effort of price to push to/through certain zones?
  • #214
  • Jun 4, 2014 7:15am Jun 4, 2014 7:15am
Quoting GlobalMacro
{quote} Incentive to be disciplined is probably the single most important advantage a trader as an employee has. One could say private traders don't really lack trading knowledge as much as they lack a suitable environment to thrive in. Jacob, do you feel the desire at times to be back trading at a bank again, being in the middle of it all or you feel more fulfilled doing it on your own...good discussion
I do miss the atmosphere, it was a lot fun. You could say things on a trading floor that you couldn't in polite company Would I go back? If the opportunity was right sure I would. BUT as the years went by being a market maker was no longer a thrill it got to the point where I cringed whenever I had to make a price (especially in China) ... by that time banks were desperate to get customer business at any cost. I would show hedge funds prices that were better than the market and in big size such that every deal was a loser, NO FUN and not much chance to make money.
But that was just the pendulum swinging from the banks favor for years to swinging to the customers favor now. Also, you would be shocked to see how quiet a trading floor is most days especially in NY after London goes home.
  • #215
  • Jun 4, 2014 7:25am Jun 4, 2014 7:25am
@jacobfordfx

Nice discussion going here. What about VOLUME in fx trading ? Do you I mean institutional trader use volume for fx trading?
  • #216
  • Jun 4, 2014 7:38am Jun 4, 2014 7:38am
Quoting juisen25
@jacobfordfx Nice discussion going here. What about VOLUME in fx trading ? Do you I mean institutional trader use volume for fx trading?
I don't think you can know total volume. At least I wasn't aware of it but I wasn't a g7 trader. The only thing I could think of is this; out side of the NDF's most if not all deliverable currencies traded on either EBS or Reuters Dealing. I do not know if they reported total volumes by currency or not. That may be something you can ask your service provider but I never care about volume nor was it ever talked about on the trading floor
  • #217
  • Jun 4, 2014 9:03am Jun 4, 2014 9:03am
Quoting Pollux
#Skenobi, #JacobFordFX, Based on your knowledge and experience would you use volume to anticipate a reversal (or pullback) by noticing the effort of price to push to/through certain zones?
There is no centralized exchange for spot FX markets i.e. volume is never reported or even collated for public consumption. On the face of it, there might even be proprietary or privacy reasons why Banks would not want their volumes to be publicly known.

No matter... I have never desired volume information before. Would I use it if it had been available? I guess I'll never know. At the moment, am not losing any sleep over it.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #218
  • Jun 4, 2014 12:48pm Jun 4, 2014 12:48pm
Quoting skenobi
{quote} There is no centralized exchange for spot FX markets i.e. volume is never reported or even collated for public consumption. On the face of it, there might even be proprietary or privacy reasons why Banks would not want their volumes to be publicly known. No matter... I have never desired volume information before. Would I use it if it had been available? I guess I'll never know. At the moment, am not losing any sleep over it.
I always wondered about volume there are a couple of threads on FF where they proclaim to use volume for trading such as Volume Spread Analysis and they swear by it - Neither of my brokers even offer it and when I have asked they tell me it's not available.
  • #219
  • Jun 4, 2014 1:29pm Jun 4, 2014 1:29pm
Quoting stewrigh
{quote} I always wondered about volume there are a couple of threads on FF where they proclaim to use volume for trading such as Volume Spread Analysis and they swear by it - Neither of my brokers even offer it and when I have asked they tell me it's not available.
As it pertains to Forex, these individuals are speaking of Tick Volume, not the volume that would would get from the futures market. Even if you were able to have all Forex volume aggregated into 1 feed, you wouldn't want it. What happens when Bank A and Company B exchange Euros to Dollars in the millions at 1 specified price? There would be a volume spike and no movement. It doesn't indicate anything. Personally, my experience is that tick volume can be useful at times but, as with anything else, you really have to put in the time and effort to see how it may help your decision making.
  • #220
  • Jun 4, 2014 6:38pm Jun 4, 2014 6:38pm
Quoting Good Lookin
{quote} As it pertains to Forex, these individuals are speaking of Tick Volume, not the volume that would would get from the futures market. Even if you were able to have all Forex volume aggregated into 1 feed, you wouldn't want it. What happens when Bank A and Company B exchange Euros to Dollars in the millions at 1 specified price? There would be a volume spike and no movement. It doesn't indicate anything. Personally, my experience is that tick volume can be useful at times but, as with anything else, you really have to put in the time and effort...
Agreed on all points.

In any case, I TRY to make it a point NOT to knock someone else's way of making money as long as it's making money for SOMEbody out there, and no matter how illogical, flakey, or misguided they seem to me. Key word is "try".

Beyond that, I will hold my peace.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
5 traders viewing now